Rude Programs

[R Sterling]

Anyone out there have stories they would like to share about programs that were very disrepectful to candidates during the interview season?

I'm not trying to put any particular program on blast, I'd like everyone to share their horror stories whem dealing with programs.

I got a call like 2 weeks ago , on a Sunday afternoon, from a program coordinator asking me why isn't my school on the California list ( This is a program in Ohio, which happens to have a resident in their program from a school that is on California's Disapproved list) After I explained why, she said she will talk to the PD and asked me if I would be interested in an interview after she talks to him. I have yet to get that invite!

I also got an email from a program during mid-November when programs are handing out their left over interview spots, asking me to write an essay explaining what have I been doing since I graduated till now, and then they will consider me for an interview. No thanks.


Anyone else encountered such rudeness from programs?

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[scotchtapetest]

Anyone out there have stories they would like to share about programs that were very disrepectful to candidates during the interview season?

I'm not trying to put any particular program on blast, I'd like everyone to share their horror stories whem dealing with programs.

I got a call like 2 weeks ago , on a Sunday afternoon, from a program coordinator asking me why isn't my school on the California list ( This is a program in Ohio, which happens to have a resident in their program from a school that is on California's Disapproved list) After I explained why, she said she will talk to the PD and asked me if I would be interested in an interview after she talks to him. I have yet to get that invite!

I also got an email from a program during mid-November when programs are handing out their left over interview spots, asking me to write an essay explaining what have I been doing since I graduated till now, and then they will consider me for an interview. No thanks.


Anyone else encountered such rudeness from programs?

How is any of that rudeness? Sounds like you are an FMG/IMG and they wanted to make sure you come from a legit school and won't run into licensing problems.

The second program also wants to see what have you been doing since graduation. You weren't interested in writing an additional essay and that's that!

None of what you have described is what I would consider rudeness! I would actually consider them as acts of kindness that instead of outright rejecting your application they went out of their way to accommodate you (so you should be thankful).

Good luck with the rest of the process

 

[sinnamon]

i second what bala said. the situations you described doesn't sound to me at all.

 

[J-Rad]

Nobody was rude to you. You are an IMG who graduated from a school not on the CA list who graduated more than two years ago and got mediocre scores on Steps I&II (but did well on the virtually meaningless step III) and have been killing time working in some "medically related" job. You are a high risk candidate to a program. I would suggest that you accept that fact and act accordingly. When asked to write an essay about what you've been doing the last two years, say "happily, thanks for the opportunity to send you my application". You are only hurting yourself to do otherwise.

 

[InBoston]

No one is rude to you. You are a foreign applicant. Many of them are shady and cannot be trusted, so deeper examination is necessary I'm afraid.

 

[Buzz Me]

I got a call like 2 weeks ago , on a Sunday afternoon, from a program coordinator asking me why isn't my school on the California list
...
I also got an email from a program during mid-November when programs are handing out their left over interview spots, asking me to write an essay explaining what have I been doing since I graduated till now, and then they will consider me for an interview. No thanks.

Those don't seem like unreasonable requests to me. This is your third time applying to the Match, and you have two low (below-average) scores on Steps 1 and 2 CK, respectively. They're just asking for more information to see if you can improve your app - they're actually giving you an opportunity to make them want to interview you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Like the others have said, that is not rudeness. I don't know your story, but if what the previous posters have said is correct, then it's beyond hubris for you to thumb your nose at those programs unless you already have 10+ programs to rank. If not, I'd suggest that you call the PC at the first program to see if she had a chance to speak to the PD yet. Unfortunately, you've probably blown any shot of getting an invite from the second program since they emailed you two months ago.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yep, sounds like SOP for programs.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I guess this begs the question.

Receive any interviews this year, OP?

 

[Gasworks]

Westchester medical center anesthesia program.. I will do my best to mock the PD's cartoon like accent:

NOW WIFF DESE STOOPEED WORK HOUR REESTREEK-SHONES - IF U DO NOT REED - MMMMWWWWWWUUUUHHHHHH - I KEEEK YOO OUT FROM HERE.

Now picture one of the super mario brothers making a backhanded pimp slap motion. Yes this guy was for real. No I did not bother ranking them.

PS. They were on probation at the time.

 

[sineapse]

No one is rude to you. You are a foreign applicant. Many of them are shady and cannot be trusted, so deeper examination is necessary I'm afraid.

Nobody was rude to you. You are an IMG who graduated from a school not on the CA list who graduated more than two years ago and got mediocre scores on Steps I&II (but did well on the virtually meaningless step III) and have been killing time working in some "medically related" job. You are a high risk candidate to a program. I would suggest that you accept that fact and act accordingly. When asked to write an essay about what you've been doing the last two years, say "happily, thanks for the opportunity to send you my application". You are only hurting yourself to do otherwise.

Interesting points. I hold my hands up and say as an IMG to be, this is of concern to me. Apart from good scores, LoRs and high quality US rotations, any advice on what an IMG can do to ameliorate this distrust?

 

[Arcan57]

Interesting points. I hold my hands up and say as an IMG to be, this is of concern to me. Apart from good scores, LoRs and high quality US rotations, any advice on what an IMG can do to ameliorate this distrust?

Those would be the big three. Not having a significant/any time off from clinical medicine would also be a plus. Applying to programs that have residents from your school that have been successful would also help.

And to the OP: trying to get into a program is not the time to be arrogant. Whatever privileges/life circumstances led to you feeling resentful of programs asking such basic questions are not going to be of benefit in obtaining a US residency. Arrogance is troubling in a US grad with 250s on Step I/II, it's a dealbreaker for a middle of the road IMG.

 

[arielred]

Interesting points. I hold my hands up and say as an IMG to be, this is of concern to me. Apart from good scores, LoRs and high quality US rotations, any advice on what an IMG can do to ameliorate this distrust?

As a fellow UK IMG currently going throigh the match i can say that they don't discriminate against us as much.

 

[Andreji]

As a fellow UK IMG currently going throigh the match i can say that they don't discriminate against us as much.

As a fellow IMG who just prematched (myself colombian) I feel the same is so for any IMG, not just anglo-saxon.

"Discrimination" goes as far as silently or overtly rejecting your apps or hard-to-meet requirements (ie, 1-yr USCE as in CHOP-I applied to peds).

Once they're interviewing you, clearly they won't invest time and resources in a candidate they'd clearly not take.

What is true, imho, is we're liable to any odd finding a thorough scrutiny may make- and one must be prepared to account for gaps, lack of research, poor scores, etc, etc, etc.

We're also liable to any cultural misinterpretation- one may come off as arrogant, rude, etc or deem the program to be so and become defensive.

So as an IMG, best thing to do is BE HUMBLE, KNOW YOUR CV, and charm them.

Addendum to original: Also, unless obviously rude, any impasse during interviews should be believed to be one's fault/misinterpretation, so to take a conciliatory road instead of blaming or being defensive. This could well be the problem the OP had.

 

[J-Rad]

Interesting points. I hold my hands up and say as an IMG to be, this is of concern to me. Apart from good scores, LoRs and high quality US rotations, any advice on what an IMG can do to ameliorate this distrust?

Please realize that my response to the OP included very specific info that OP herself has posted about herself. She is someone who used to have a Visa issue (no longer an issue per recent posts), went to a school not on the CA list, had mediocre scores on steps I&II and failed to match for at least two years in a row applying IM and FM, and has been working some "medically related" job while living at home with her Mom. I would avoid getting into such a situation by focusing on what you described above, but if you happen to be in such an unfortunate position, I would not burn bridges by misinterpreting legitimate concern on the part of the program for "rudeness" which is imaginary.

 

[sineapse]

Thanks all.

Arielred, mind if I PM you sometime? Trying to sort out my application for September during FY1.

 

[Killer T Cell]

As a fellow UK IMG currently going throigh the match i can say that they don't discriminate against us as much.

"Discrimination" goes as far as silently or overtly rejecting your apps or hard-to-meet requirements (ie, 1-yr USCE as in CHOP-I applied to peds).

I completely agree with Arielred and Andreji. As a UK IMG who just went through this process and pre-matched, I received a lot more love than I expected.

Granted, many programs won't even look at your app due to the IMG stigma and many set up challenging pre-requisites (eg. one year of postgraduate training in an accredited pediatric or IM/PEDS residency training program in the United States or Canada for Nationwide Children's Peds Residency). There's nothing we can do about this, it's just a part of the process.

But if a program contacts you or invites you for an interview, they see something in you. And discrimination is the last thing they'll do at that stage. Grab the opportunity, turn on your charms, and knock their socks off 🙂

 

[Andreji]

KTC, seems like we agree on many levels (forums) 😀

Hope your prep for philly is going smoothly!

 

[Killer T Cell]

Haha...I definitely agree Andreji 🙂 I'm just waiting for match day to see who my buddies will be!! Hope ur prep is coming along nicely as well....

 

[arielred]

Thanks all.

Arielred, mind if I PM you sometime? Trying to sort out my application for September during FY1.

Sure anytime. I'm just sitting here waiting for March 🙂

 

[splik]

Granted, many programs won't even look at your app due to the IMG stigma and many set up challenging pre-requisites (eg. one year of postgraduate training in an accredited pediatric or IM/PEDS residency training program in the United States or Canada for Nationwide Children's Peds Residency). There's nothing we can do about this, it's just a part of the process.

🙁

 

[sineapse]

I would also stress do not be perturbed by program with ridiculous requirements of US experience. I applied to one such program that also said they wouldn't sponsor visas, and applied a month late. Was shocked to get an interview and find out at interview they would sponsor visa for me. They said they considered UK experience as equivalent to US experience. I almost didn't apply to this program and they are now my #1

Interesting! I am quite keen on BU's internal medicine, have heard good things from another London graduate from them. They have a minimum 8 weeks USCE requirement, I'll have done two university IM sub-Is by the time I apply but they will be 3 week and 4 weeks respectively bringing me just below their cutoff.

Still, might as well apply...everything to win and nothing to lose!

 

[belle54321]

i would also stress do not be perturbed by program with ridiculous requirements of us experience. I applied to one such program that also said they wouldn't sponsor visas, and applied a month late. Was shocked to get an interview and find out at interview they would sponsor visa for me. They said they considered uk experience as equivalent to us experience. I almost didn't apply to this program and they are now my #1

c.a.?

 

[splik]

Interesting! I am quite keen on BU's internal medicine, have heard good things from another London graduate from them. They have a minimum 8 weeks USCE requirement, I'll have done two university IM sub-Is by the time I apply but they will be 3 week and 4 weeks respectively bringing me just below their cutoff.

Still, might as well apply...everything to win and nothing to lose!

🙂

 

[Gannador]

It blows my mind how clueless some IMGs seem to be when it comes to the uphill battle they can face. I rotated at one hospital and there was a US FMG 4th year doing one of her subIs there. It was one of her top choices and also a school that was interested in her. She was told that 4th years were not expected to take weekend call, but if she wanted to volunteer during one of the weekends that the PD was around it would definitely be in her favor. She was horrified at the idea of taking call and ended up doing one half day of one weekend and ended up leaving for the night rather than staying for the last half of the shift. She also got very frustrated about being asked to make a grand rounds presentation and was overall very annoyed when she got placed in a certain subspecialty for a week because it wasn't "her thing". I couldn't believe it. I wanted to tell her that she was throwing what might be her best chance down the tubes, but I just held my tongue because I didn't think it was my place to speak up. I personally would have killed myself bending over backwards for this program if I was in her position. Despite all of this, she actually cancelled several interview invites during the month because "this was her top choice" and she didn't "want to hurt her chances." Too late?

 

[Top Gun]

It blows my mind how clueless some IMGs seem to be when it comes to the uphill battle they can face. I rotated at one hospital and there was a US FMG 4th year doing one of her subIs there. It was one of her top choices and also a school that was interested in her. She was told that 4th years were not expected to take weekend call, but if she wanted to volunteer during one of the weekends that the PD was around it would definitely be in her favor. She was horrified at the idea of taking call and ended up doing one half day of one weekend and ended up leaving for the night rather than staying for the last half of the shift. She also got very frustrated about being asked to make a grand rounds presentation and was overall very annoyed when she got placed in a certain subspecialty for a week because it wasn't "her thing". I couldn't believe it. I wanted to tell her that she was throwing what might be her best chance down the tubes, but I just held my tongue because I didn't think it was my place to speak up. I personally would have killed myself bending over backwards for this program if I was in her position. Despite all of this, she actually cancelled several interview invites during the month because "this was her top choice" and she didn't "want to hurt her chances." Too late?

I think the phrase "digging her own grave" comes to mind here.