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Running out of options
- Thread starter Darce101
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The sGPA does raise some concerns, but seeing your M.S. with a 3.7 GPA also seems like it would be for sure, especially an M.S.!!! Well, hope your luck changes soon because I would most certainly give you a spot with your dedication and stats!
Honestly, I don't know what those admissions committee are thinking?!
Honestly, I don't know what those admissions committee are thinking?!
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I find it rather odd that you were not accepted somewhere this cycle... You have amazing DAT scores and you obviously addressed your sGPA by knocking out an M.S. degree with a 3.7.
You applied to plenty of schools, however I think the problem is that your DATs were taken pretty late. By the time schools got your application into "complete/under review" status... many schools have 80-90% of their classes filled. So even though you may have applied early, your application was not complete as these schools were waiting on your new scores.
Don't give up hope yet because you still have a shot... it just takes one interview... one waitlist spot... you get the picture. If worse come to worst, apply early next cycle and you shouldn't have a problem landing multiple interviews with some acceptances
You applied to plenty of schools, however I think the problem is that your DATs were taken pretty late. By the time schools got your application into "complete/under review" status... many schools have 80-90% of their classes filled. So even though you may have applied early, your application was not complete as these schools were waiting on your new scores.
Don't give up hope yet because you still have a shot... it just takes one interview... one waitlist spot... you get the picture. If worse come to worst, apply early next cycle and you shouldn't have a problem landing multiple interviews with some acceptances
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Don't give up try to get your science GPA above 3.0. I know some one who got in this cycle and it was there third time applying. They had good ec's and lots of exposure to the dental field.
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This is surprising. Even with those numbers, I'd have thought you would at least get interviews. Heck, yours truly got 5 interviews and 2 acceptances and my numbers weren't better than yours. There is probably something else in your packet that is turning the schools off? Find out what it is, and address it.
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I believe you may have read the post incorrectly. The DAT was taken over a year ago in January of 2010, not 2011. Plenty of time before the start of the application cycle. Considering the OP's situation, I was thinking the same thing until I recognized the year.
Regardless, your undergraduate sGPA does raise a red flag, but your GPA with your M.S. degree should have alleviated any fears.
In general, your recent numbers look great so I would look at the remainder of your application such as extracurriculars, volunteering, and shadowing experience. Any info regarding those aspects of your application?
Also, which schools did you apply to?
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What I notice is that you completed the Masters in September but submitted the app in June. So this means that your GPA was not calculated as a 3.1 overall, 2.9 science, and 3.7 Masters GPA when you intially submitted it, right?. The reason I ask is because it looks good now but was it this good before that final semester in which the intial app was submitted? Did the final semester have a big impact in all GPA categories? Also:
Did you have to wait until the Academic Update to provide the grades in September? If so, this killed your app timing because they basically set it aside until Dec/January. And some schools might not even looked at your updated app yet, even though it is late in the game. One thing I noticed @ USC last week is that as I went into the back of the admissions office they had a large bookcase full of app folders seperated as Reviewed, Not Yet Reviewed, and Interviews. The Not Yet Reviewed still had a quite a stack so I am sure other schools still might also be reviewing apps.
Your intentions were good but it might have been, in your specific case, better to wait until your final grades and MASTERS COMPLETED were in your file. Unfortunately, this might have been one of the very few instances where waiting would be more beneficial.
Other than this, your DAT is great. Pretty sure you will get in next cycle if not this one
Did you have to wait until the Academic Update to provide the grades in September? If so, this killed your app timing because they basically set it aside until Dec/January. And some schools might not even looked at your updated app yet, even though it is late in the game. One thing I noticed @ USC last week is that as I went into the back of the admissions office they had a large bookcase full of app folders seperated as Reviewed, Not Yet Reviewed, and Interviews. The Not Yet Reviewed still had a quite a stack so I am sure other schools still might also be reviewing apps.
Your intentions were good but it might have been, in your specific case, better to wait until your final grades and MASTERS COMPLETED were in your file. Unfortunately, this might have been one of the very few instances where waiting would be more beneficial.
Other than this, your DAT is great. Pretty sure you will get in next cycle if not this one
hang in there man, i know the third time will be the charm. u definitely deserve it.
Thanks for the words of encouragement! Like I said earlier, I'm just worried my scores will expire before I can get in to any schools. I really thought that I'd be in for sure this year.
I'm contemplating doing a postbacc, however I don't know if I can afford it at this point. I just need some time to clear my head.
@killacam - The GPA that I listed was after the academic update period. So you could be right.
To be honest, the only thing that I can think of that would keep schools from giving me an interview would be course load. I don't have any quarters with 15+ units of science courses. I was doing research, writing a thesis and publications. . .there just wasn't enough time in the day to take that many units and work in lab.
@bing
I applied to USC, UCLA, UCSF, Western U., UofP, Maryland, Nova, ASDOH, Midwestern (AZ), Oregon, Washington, Penn, Case, Pitt, UNLV.
Mailing from AADSAS for this cycle was 7/16/2010.
I'm contemplating doing a postbacc, however I don't know if I can afford it at this point. I just need some time to clear my head.
@killacam - The GPA that I listed was after the academic update period. So you could be right.
To be honest, the only thing that I can think of that would keep schools from giving me an interview would be course load. I don't have any quarters with 15+ units of science courses. I was doing research, writing a thesis and publications. . .there just wasn't enough time in the day to take that many units and work in lab.
@bing
I applied to USC, UCLA, UCSF, Western U., UofP, Maryland, Nova, ASDOH, Midwestern (AZ), Oregon, Washington, Penn, Case, Pitt, UNLV.
Mailing from AADSAS for this cycle was 7/16/2010.
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I didn't apply to the east coast schools because of my CC credits. I transferred to UC Irvine from a community college. My community college GPA is really what is screwing my GPA. I've really tried to maintain an upward trend. I haven't had anything lower than an A- since 2006.
I'm thinking of going back to a CC to take a heavy load of science classes. I just can't afford to continue taking classes at a 4 year. 🙁
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Both NYU and Columbia accept CC credits. And... Penn, Maryland, and Pitt are east coast schools?😕
Anyway, it's too bad you didn't get the results you wanted this cycle. Based on your stats, I can only imagine there must be some other deficiency or issue with your application, that or you're just very unlucky. Oh, and you didn't answer the "when" of your application being complete, that might shed some light as well if it was complete really late or something.
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I basically have the same DAT and GPA. You applied 1 week earlier than me. I have 3 post-dec interviews...
But combining my undergrad 3.1 with my 4.0 post-bacc/masters I have a 3.35. Is the 3.1 GPA you listed the result of both your undergrad and 3.7 M.Sc. combined? If it is just your undergrad GPA like mines I am very surprised that you did not get an interview.
But combining my undergrad 3.1 with my 4.0 post-bacc/masters I have a 3.35. Is the 3.1 GPA you listed the result of both your undergrad and 3.7 M.Sc. combined? If it is just your undergrad GPA like mines I am very surprised that you did not get an interview.
Sorry, by the east coast schools I was referring to the schools that don't accept CC units. I'm disappointed I didn't apply to NYU. . .like you mentioned, they DO accept CC units and I should have done more research.
App was marked complete and mailed on 7/16/2010.
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It's understandable, I think it's a relatively common mistake regarding NYU; I think at some point in the semi-recent past they did have some kind of CC thing... 😏
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I can see why they may be hesitant, but with such an early applicant and a strong M.Sc. I am still very surprised that you did not get any interviews!
Have you been taking additional classes all the while? It is always good to keep trying and if possible bring that sGPA to 3.0+
I'm thinking of taking a full load of science classes next fall. I can't take any classes right now because I need to work and recover from the costs of the masters program.
Do you think it would hurt to take a full load of science classes at a CC? I might have to retake a few courses, but I could save a lot of money. I don't think it would be practical to do an official post bac. But then again, if I knew, I wouldn't be in this situation.
Do you think it would hurt to take a full load of science classes at a CC? I might have to retake a few courses, but I could save a lot of money. I don't think it would be practical to do an official post bac. But then again, if I knew, I wouldn't be in this situation.
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I think you should not take science classes after a master's at a CC because it is a huge downgrade in difficulty. You have proven yourself already!
Perhaps it is best to speak with the admissions people at the universities and have them pull up your file and see what they suggest you can do? For certain you would want to speak with your top choices and perhaps even to visit them in person to have a consultation.
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At the point you're at, I would wonder which science classes you'd even take at a CC. Assuming you already have taken most of the lower level pre-req type classes, I'd try to take the high level ones at a 4 year institution. I still need to take physics 2, which I'll take at a CC to save money, but I'll take biochem at the university (not only because it's higher level class, but because the CC version offered isn't as comprehensive).
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i think you should call NYU up and ask if they think its a good idea to apply right now...i KNow its REALLY LATE IN THE CYCLE, but you dont have anything to lose if you call and ask. ive heard of some students applying to the expensive private schools really late in the game and getting in.
I don't understand why you didn't get any interviews. Your DAT scores are amazing. At this point, I think you should make a plan B and prepare for the next application cycle (which is soon approaching).
I agree that you should NOT take classes at a CC. It may give the admissions committee the impression that you're trying to take the easy way out, even if that's not true. If you need to take more classes, go to a 4 year state university (it's cheaper than a UC)
As others have suggested, contact the schools and ask them how you can improve your chances for next cycle. I know USC has an event called "Fight on Fridays" where you can tour the school and choose to meet with an admissions staff to go over your previous application. You can find more info on their website and to sign up.
Some things that might have hurt your application (you might consider bringing these up with the admissions committee if you meet with them):
1. Did you take all your dental pre-reqs at a CC? Many schools frown upon that. I would ask the schools if you need to retake the pre-reqs at a 4 yr university.
2. What other ECs do you have besides research? In particular, do you have a lot of dental related ECs (shadowing, volunteering, etc). It's great that you have research experience, but many schools want to see that you know about the dental field and are committed to it.
3. It's impressive that you completed a Master's, but I wonder if the type of Masters program you did was not what the admissions committee wanted. Some schools actually prefer students do a non-research based Masters. They want students to take a heavy load of science intensive courses (at least 3-4 courses each semester).
I know it's frustrating, but have faith. I'm sure it will happen for you if you keep at it. Good luck!
I agree that you should NOT take classes at a CC. It may give the admissions committee the impression that you're trying to take the easy way out, even if that's not true. If you need to take more classes, go to a 4 year state university (it's cheaper than a UC)
As others have suggested, contact the schools and ask them how you can improve your chances for next cycle. I know USC has an event called "Fight on Fridays" where you can tour the school and choose to meet with an admissions staff to go over your previous application. You can find more info on their website and to sign up.
Some things that might have hurt your application (you might consider bringing these up with the admissions committee if you meet with them):
1. Did you take all your dental pre-reqs at a CC? Many schools frown upon that. I would ask the schools if you need to retake the pre-reqs at a 4 yr university.
2. What other ECs do you have besides research? In particular, do you have a lot of dental related ECs (shadowing, volunteering, etc). It's great that you have research experience, but many schools want to see that you know about the dental field and are committed to it.
3. It's impressive that you completed a Master's, but I wonder if the type of Masters program you did was not what the admissions committee wanted. Some schools actually prefer students do a non-research based Masters. They want students to take a heavy load of science intensive courses (at least 3-4 courses each semester).
I know it's frustrating, but have faith. I'm sure it will happen for you if you keep at it. Good luck!
I really appreciate all the input! I've received more helpful tips here than anywhere else.
I'm going to call a few of the schools and try to meet with them in person. It seems like face time with the admissions ofice is the best way to go. I'll keep you all posted!
I'm going to call a few of the schools and try to meet with them in person. It seems like face time with the admissions ofice is the best way to go. I'll keep you all posted!
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I think that all the advice you've been given so far is really good.
I just wanted to add that for next cycle, try to shadow some dentist(s) who is/are on the admissions committee at one of your state schools or a private school you want to go to. I don't know if this is possible at all schools, but I know you can do it for some of them. Basically you should do this at a school that you think you have a fair shot of being interviewed/accepted at, not a reach school. If you get to shadow a dean, that's an extra bonus I think. Obviously you should go out of your way to get that person to like you and think that you're a driven and hardworking person. That way, when it comes time to review the applications, there will be at least someone in the room who knows you personally and has a favorable impression of you. Also, if you have any connections to these universities/dental schools, now is the time to USE THEM! This will help you at least get a foot in the door.
I just wanted to add that for next cycle, try to shadow some dentist(s) who is/are on the admissions committee at one of your state schools or a private school you want to go to. I don't know if this is possible at all schools, but I know you can do it for some of them. Basically you should do this at a school that you think you have a fair shot of being interviewed/accepted at, not a reach school. If you get to shadow a dean, that's an extra bonus I think. Obviously you should go out of your way to get that person to like you and think that you're a driven and hardworking person. That way, when it comes time to review the applications, there will be at least someone in the room who knows you personally and has a favorable impression of you. Also, if you have any connections to these universities/dental schools, now is the time to USE THEM! This will help you at least get a foot in the door.
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I cannot stress this enough. If you are an average applicant or especially a borderline applicant, CONNECTIONS make a very very very very very very very big difference. Get to know people on the admissions committee. People don't mention this as much as they should... I guess its like some sort of insider secret people don't want others knowing about.
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Yeah, hahaha I'm not gonna mention it too much since I have yet to apply 😉, but it's something the OP should really look into in this case.
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Also, OP, just to give you some inspiration, I want to share an example that illustrates my point. 🙂
I wasn't born in the US, and my family moved here when I was 7. Both of my parents are physicians who are considered foreign medical graduates. If you want to be more specific, both of my parents got their medical degrees from a third world country (the only reason I say this is to illustrate the point that in the eyes of program directors and such in the US their degree wouldn't mean anything special other than that they are MD's...it'd be different if they had gotten an MD from Oxford for example lol).
Anyway, after we got the US, they worked really hard and passed their USMLE's. However, mainly due to the fact that they started learning English after we came to the US, they didn't score particularly high on the exams, but they passed each on the first try.
So after that, they needed to find residencies. I don't know how much you know about the US medical system, but for foreign medical graduates finding residencies is harder than for US medical graduates, some programs don't even accept foreign medical graduates and they usually end up in fields that aren't popular with US graduates. I'm pretty sure it was late in the game when they started looking for residencies because they weren't able to time it right (analogous to not applying early to dental school), but they didn't want to waste a year so they did the best they could looking for residencies even though it was late. My father got a residency spot due to a connection he had with someone who had moved to the US years before us but had gone to medical school with him.
My mother actually finished her exams before my father, but wasn't able to get a residency spot as quickly, so she decided that she was going to call program directors up or show up at their offices and ask to volunteer with them (it's harder to say no if they're talking to you in person or over the phone). She spent some time volunteering and getting the attendings and directors in one particular program to like her. This was a program that accepted foreign medical graduates, so it was on the level she was shooting for and not a reach. Point of the story is, they ended up having an open spot before the residency program started that year, and put her in without reviewing further applications because they had gotten to know her and saw that she was an intelligent and capable person.
Both of these examples illustrate the power of connections. Obviously it's easier if you know someone on a more personal level like my father did than if you have to start from scratch like my mother did. I'm sure you'll have more success if you work on your connections in addition to improving other things on your application. Start ASAP, though, so that you get to know someone really well before your application is submitted/under review.
I wasn't born in the US, and my family moved here when I was 7. Both of my parents are physicians who are considered foreign medical graduates. If you want to be more specific, both of my parents got their medical degrees from a third world country (the only reason I say this is to illustrate the point that in the eyes of program directors and such in the US their degree wouldn't mean anything special other than that they are MD's...it'd be different if they had gotten an MD from Oxford for example lol).
Anyway, after we got the US, they worked really hard and passed their USMLE's. However, mainly due to the fact that they started learning English after we came to the US, they didn't score particularly high on the exams, but they passed each on the first try.
So after that, they needed to find residencies. I don't know how much you know about the US medical system, but for foreign medical graduates finding residencies is harder than for US medical graduates, some programs don't even accept foreign medical graduates and they usually end up in fields that aren't popular with US graduates. I'm pretty sure it was late in the game when they started looking for residencies because they weren't able to time it right (analogous to not applying early to dental school), but they didn't want to waste a year so they did the best they could looking for residencies even though it was late. My father got a residency spot due to a connection he had with someone who had moved to the US years before us but had gone to medical school with him.
My mother actually finished her exams before my father, but wasn't able to get a residency spot as quickly, so she decided that she was going to call program directors up or show up at their offices and ask to volunteer with them (it's harder to say no if they're talking to you in person or over the phone). She spent some time volunteering and getting the attendings and directors in one particular program to like her. This was a program that accepted foreign medical graduates, so it was on the level she was shooting for and not a reach. Point of the story is, they ended up having an open spot before the residency program started that year, and put her in without reviewing further applications because they had gotten to know her and saw that she was an intelligent and capable person.
Both of these examples illustrate the power of connections. Obviously it's easier if you know someone on a more personal level like my father did than if you have to start from scratch like my mother did. I'm sure you'll have more success if you work on your connections in addition to improving other things on your application. Start ASAP, though, so that you get to know someone really well before your application is submitted/under review.
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I'm really surprised OP didn't get an interview from USC or Western considering his upward trend and great DAT scores...
And I agree with the above. Connections can get you really far in life bro.
And I agree with the above. Connections can get you really far in life bro.
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