Running Shoes Could Cause Joint Strain

Started by PMR2008
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I haven't read it yet, but it sounds like it would lend credence to the growing trend of barefoot running, which I personally fully support. Humans didn't evolve with shoes in mind, so it doesn't surprise me that they create their fair share of problems. After all, barefoot runners have been shown to have less injuries and greater efficiency/endurance, due to "natural" mechanics. Look up the Tarahumara Indians from Mexico to get a real sense of this. They're ultra-marathoners. Away with shoes!
 
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After reading the article I'd like to clarify that I run on trails, not asphalt/concrete. I use the Vibram Five Finger shoes to protect my feet.

Yes, I look ridiculous. 😀
 
Saw a guy with the Five Finger shoes recently while hiking some gnarly trails on vacation. He was travelling at a pretty decent clip. On the way back met another man slipping and sliding all over the place, trying oh so very hard not to fall or curse in front of his family.

He was wearing Crocs. 🤣
 
I read this article in PM&R (here), and wish I knew more about biomechanics. But it doesn't take into account the cushioning factor you may receive from shoes.

In my less-educated opinion, I believe that running form dictates injuries more than anything; the beauty of barefoot running is that pain/discomfort improves your form. It's hard to say that if one were to run with the same form with or without shoes, which would be better.

I just finished "Born to Run" and thought it was a good story. Biased, but still a good read (all books are biased anyway)!
 
Bombesin said:
After reading the article I'd like to clarify that I run on trails, not asphalt/concrete. I use the Vibram Five Finger shoes to protect my feet.

Yes, I look ridiculous. 😀
Click to expand...

I do too. I have run several marathons in them and have a pair of the new kso treks on order for running trail. I plan on using them for a 100k in april.
the vibrams are great. no knee pain at all. they really work your calves and quads just like running barefooted.
and yes, they look silly.
 
padresp said:
I read this article in PM&R (here), and wish I knew more about biomechanics. But it doesn't take into account the cushioning factor you may receive from shoes.

In my less-educated opinion, I believe that running form dictates injuries more than anything; the beauty of barefoot running is that pain/discomfort improves your form. It's hard to say that if one were to run with the same form with or without shoes, which would be better.

I just finished "Born to Run" and thought it was a good story. Biased, but still a good read (all books are biased anyway)!
Click to expand...

I, like many people, used to run in a heel to toe fashion and always had knee issues and big time shin splints. I started running in Chuck Taylor's and now have the VFF KSO's. Both prevent heel striking which has alleviated my knee and shin problems.

I love the VFF's and would wear them everywhere, but my wife has threatened to leave me if I do, as they look pretty ridiculous.

MC
 
This is all very interesting, I wonder though what the long term effect would be for the "forefoot" runner. I only read the article in PMR not the book "Born to run" I do have some friends who use this method, (though not long distance running) and claim resolution of their foot pain.

As a side, interesting for discussion purposes, according to the gait cycle- if forefoot running uses a more plantar flexed position how would you expect these forces to effect the knee long term? (changing knee extension-flexion moment) and upwards the kinetic chain... hip, pelvis.
 
also depends on what you are running on. barefoot running will not work on concrete. dirt trials and the beach are another story.

-A
 
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As an athletic trainer and PT, I think that these shoes are nothing but a gimmick that has caught some national attention because of the publicity. All they do is reduce the amount of motion required at the ankle. the rocker bottom shoe is something we recommend with patients with a fused talo-crural joint.

A runner must supinate their foot to run. In order to supinate your foot effectively, you MUST pronate first in order to load the chain. Ineffective loading in the foot is like trying to jump without first dipping down, or throwing a frisbee without winding up. You simply can't do it well. Yes you can do it, but not well.

The foot is meant to be a dynamic body part and is essential to the loading/function of the rest of the LE. Don't fall for the hype. If it truly was better, wouldn't one, just one elite runner choose to run Boston or NY or Grandma's or some other high profile marathon in them?
 
Prominent barefooters

Abebe Bikila former Olympic marathon world-record holder[7]
Bruce Tulloh former European 5k record-holder
Rick Roeber current consecutive days running barefoot world-record holder
Tegla Loroupe former Olympic marathon world-record holder
Zola Budd former world record holder in the women's 5000 meters[7]
Tellman Knudson- "Barefoot Philanthropist" Ran 654 miles consecutively to raise money for homeless youth.[2]

The round soled shoes may be effective for people with a certain affliction, but the marketing to the general public as a weight loss aid is just silly. Now there's a gimmick.

MC
 
Abebe Bikila former Olympic marathon world-record holder[7]
Bruce Tulloh former European 5k record-holder
Rick Roeber current consecutive days running barefoot world-record holder
Tegla Loroupe former Olympic marathon world-record holder
Zola Budd former world record holder in the women's 5000 meters[7]
Tellman Knudson- "Barefoot Philanthropist" Ran 654 miles consecutively to raise money for homeless youth.[2]

Out of how many runners? Of course there are elite barefooters. I especially like the fact that you listed the world record holder for barefoot running. He might have run 5 miles and if no one else had done that then he would be the best of all time. I still think that it is a gimmick.

The africans listed probably ran barefoot their entire lives and trained on dirt. Someone mentioned that in an earlier post. We live in a paved world. our feet are evolved to walk/run on much softer surfaces.
 
truthseeker said:
Out of how many runners? Of course there are elite barefooters. I especially like the fact that you listed the world record holder for barefoot running. He might have run 5 miles and if no one else had done that then he would be the best of all time. I still think that it is a gimmick.

The africans listed probably ran barefoot their entire lives and trained on dirt. Someone mentioned that in an earlier post. We live in a paved world. our feet are evolved to walk/run on much softer surfaces.
Click to expand...

You asked for just one elite runner. I think former olympic marathon world record holders would be considered elite, and there's two of them there.

Even if we are more adapted to soft surfaces which I'm not even sure about, it still seems that running barefoot is less harmful to the lower body than running in soft soled shoes with elevated heels as there is less shock to the knees and hips due to better form.

Personally, I don't do long distance. I like to sprint and will occasionally run up to 5K, but regardless of distance I feel like switching to barefoot has helped me immensely. No more heel strike, no more knee pain or shin splints. Gimmick or not, I'll never wear running shoes again.

MC
 
Bombesin said:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100212092304.htm

A study from the University of Utah. Apparently, the heel-strike is much more efficient for walking than it is for running. It delves into some of the mechanics and even mentions forefoot runners towards the end.
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I read this a couple of days ago and found it pretty fascinating. Most of my reading had been focused on running and I knew from my personal experience that running without a heel strike was better. Recently, though, I had been wondering what the most efficient walking mechanics were and if I should walk this way as well in spite of how unnatural it felt. This article cleared things up a bit.

MC
 
walking without heel strike eliminates the function of the subtalar joint which in turn eliminates automatic loading of the entire Lower Quarter.

I can't believe that you are even discussing this.

Less shock absorption with shoes than barefoot? That is akin to the woman at the golf course saying that she read that it burns more calories to ride 18 holes in a cart than to walk and carry your bag because of all of the squats you do. Just doesn't make sense that a shoe attenuates ground reaction forces less than walking barefoot.
 
truthseeker said:
walking without heel strike eliminates the function of the subtalar joint which in turn eliminates automatic loading of the entire Lower Quarter.

I can't believe that you are even discussing this.

Less shock absorption with shoes than barefoot? That is akin to the woman at the golf course saying that she read that it burns more calories to ride 18 holes in a cart than to walk and carry your bag because of all of the squats you do. Just doesn't make sense that a shoe attenuates ground reaction forces less than walking barefoot.
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This page offers far better information than I could provide:

http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/

From the site:

The bulk of our published research explores the collisional mechanics of different kinds of foot strikes. We show that most forefoot and some midfoot strikes (shod or barefoot) do not generate the sudden, large impact transients that occur when you heel strike (shod or barefoot). Consequently, runners who forefoot or midfoot strike do not need shoes with elevated cushioned heels to cope with these sudden, high transient forces that occur when you land on the ground. Therefore, barefoot runners can run easily on the hardest surfaces in the world without discomfort from landing. If impact transient forces contribute to some forms of injury, then this style of running (shod or barefoot) might have some benefits, but that hypothesis remains to be tested.


I always try to keep and open mind, and would be interested in any studies you may know of regarding the superiority of modern shoes as opposed to being barefoot.

MC
 
I think that the last sentence of your quote "If impact transient forces contribute to some forms of injury, then this style of running (shod or barefoot) might have some benefits, but that hypothesis remains to be tested.


The remainder of the reference (bolded below)suggests that they were simply assertions based upon a relative unnatural and inefficient method of running long distances. Of course running on your toes lessens ground reaction forces. So does running on a wrestling mat but people don't train on them. We are also accepting the premise of the shoe manufacturer that running on a rocker bottom shoe is similar to running barefoot. I don't buy that premise.

Please note that we present no data or opinions on how people should run, whether shoes cause some injuries, or whether barefoot running causes other kinds of injuries. We believe there is a strong need for controlled, prospective studies on these problems.
 
I must have missed the part where rocker bottom shoes were ever advocated in this thread...
 
truthseeker said:
Less shock absorption with shoes than barefoot?

Just doesn't make sense that a shoe attenuates ground reaction forces less than walking barefoot.
Click to expand...

My post was in response to this statement and it illustrated that collisional forces are in fact reduced when running barefoot due to the forced change in running mechanics. They show pretty clearly that collisional forces are greater in shod runners, but state that what remains to be tested is whether greater impact forces actually contribute to injuries, though logically, it makes sense that they would.

About the rocker bottom shoes, I'm not sure what you're saying. I can't imagine anything being further from barefoot.

If you feel inclined to post studies that support your claims, I will gladly read them and consider your arguments.

MC
 
MalachiConstant said:
My post was in response to this statement and it illustrated that collisional forces are in fact reduced when running barefoot due to the forced change in running mechanics. They show pretty clearly that collisional forces are greater in shod runners, but state that what remains to be tested is whether greater impact forces actually contribute to injuries, though logically, it makes sense that they would.

About the rocker bottom shoes, I'm not sure what you're saying. I can't imagine anything being further from barefoot.

If you feel inclined to post studies that support your claims, I will gladly read them and consider your arguments.

MC
Click to expand...


Sorry, went on a mini-tangent. I think I was morphing one thread into another. I was referring to the rocker bottom shoes that Skechers and The Masai Shoes advertise. I think I was reading a post on another site, maybe a pod site about those and they claimed that it was like running barefoot and it just seemed absurd to me. Sorry

Let me make my point another way. You all are going to be in positions to make recommendations to people about their feet and footwear etc . . . Please don't make recommendations based upon some exceptional outliers in the great bell curve of life. Yes there are people that have run well and far barefoot. There are also people who smoke until they are 100 years old. You don't advocate smoking.
 
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