Rural jobs in pathology? Moonlighting?

[EC3]

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I'm a relative newb to pathology and had a few questions.

First, what is the job market like for rural pathology jobs? Specifically, i'm talking about the mountain west in places like montana, wyoming, utah, idaho, etc.

Second, is there any type of moonlighting sytem for path residents like there is for rads, em, and anesthesia?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thx.

 

[LADoc00]

IMO, the job market/financial situation is the best in the plains than any other region in the US. Pathologists with little to no business sense are pulling down several hundred K in areas with very low cost of living indices. I cant imagine what damage I could do there (well I can imagine it🙂...making 1 mil+ in a Northern Wyoming would only get so far in life tho. There are only so many times you can get away to Jackson or Steamboat or Vale. And I hate the wind and cold.

There really are very limited moonlight opportunities for path in residency. Lots of reasons, but among them is just the overall oversaturation of pracitioners around most big academic centers. I have a file folder FULL of locums/part timers that are in their 60s, retired and still want to come in a few weeks a year and sign out.

The nature of path in general makes it very risky to employ junior residents to do anything other than gross placentas solo. Overall, if you are looking for speciality to get moonlighting $$$ in residency, pathology is one of the WORST options for this.

 

[djmd]

I'm a relative newb to pathology and had a few questions.

First, what is the job market like for rural pathology jobs? Specifically, i'm talking about the mountain west in places like montana, wyoming, utah, idaho, etc.

Second, is there any type of moonlighting sytem for path residents like there is for rads, em, and anesthesia?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thx.

Infrequent.
In answer to both questions.
Yes, there are pathologist (at pretty much every hospital) but the rural west means less hospital beds -> less surgeries -> less pathologists.

That said there are groups in Jackson springs, Jackson hole, Bozeman.
Larger cities in those states have more job obviously...
Maybe you consider Idaho Falls and Billings rural...?

Moonlighting is equally limited. Some places have autopsy moonlighting opportunities...

 

[CameronFrye]

Here, we can moonlight as medical examiners once we have a medical license. Other options include tutoring med students, but as already mentioned, the moonlighting opportunities in path are limited.

 

[LADoc00]

Here, we can moonlight as medical examiners once we have a medical license. Other options include tutoring med students, but as already mentioned, the moonlighting opportunities in path are limited.

Im fairly certain that in California you need to be boarded to perform ME work. The other factor I would ask if whether you would be compensated for deposition time and court room time? I bet not, meaning you are doing autopsies probably at 50-80 bucks/hour for a few hours on the weekend, only to get dragged out of residency for a 12 week trial potentially sometime down the future. Worth it? I think not.

That is really risky IMO. Tutoring med students is seriously gimp considering surgery, gas and rads residents can make 2-3K in a weekend easy.

Pathology SUCKS for moonlighting. Know that now. Let it burn into your mind.

You can do consultant work, but it is hard to get without boards.

 

[CameronFrye]

Im fairly certain that in California you need to be boarded to perform ME work. The other factor I would ask if whether you would be compensated for deposition time and court room time? I bet not, meaning you are doing autopsies probably at 50-80 bucks/hour for a few hours on the weekend, only to get dragged out of residency for a 12 week trial potentially sometime down the future. Worth it? I think not.

That is really risky IMO. Tutoring med students is seriously gimp considering surgery, gas and rads residents can make 2-3K in a weekend easy.

Pathology SUCKS for moonlighting. Know that now. Let it burn into your mind.

You can do consultant work, but it is hard to get without boards.

So, I think a local medical examiner in Virginia must have a different job role than in Cali. Here, a local ME has a fairly limited role. In most of the state, the local ME's aren't even pathologists. That's why the state office likes having pathology residents do it. Their responsibilities include:

-any person who dies and is going to be cremated, a local ME has to fill out a form clearing the body for cremation. For this minimal amount of work, the ME receives 50 bucks "ash cash".

-any trauma death, the local ME draws a sample of vitreous and a sample of blood and sends it to Richmond. The local ME then does a thorough external exam and if everything checks out, the body is released. I think these full viewings pay a couple hundred bucks, but I'm not sure of the exact fee b/c I believe a raise just went into effect or is getting ready to take effect.

-any other suspicious deaths, the local ME serves as a contact person with the state office in Richmond, draws blood and vitreous, does an external exam, reviews the chart/hx, etc. If Richmond decides to accept the case, the body is sent there for the actual autopsy.

So, basically, the local ME never does the actual autopsy or testifies. It's limited to chart reviews, external viewings, and drawing samples. The local ME's take call a week at a time and can make 1000 bucks in a week. Not a huge amount when compared to other fields, but still a decent amount for a minimal amount of effort.

 

[LADoc00]

So, I think a local medical examiner in Virginia must have a different job role than in Cali. Here, a local ME has a fairly limited role. In most of the state, the local ME's aren't even pathologists. That's why the state office likes having pathology residents do it. Their responsibilities include:

-any person who dies and is going to be cremated, a local ME has to fill out a form clearing the body for cremation. For this minimal amount of work, the ME receives 50 bucks "ash cash".

-any trauma death, the local ME draws a sample of vitreous and a sample of blood and sends it to Richmond. The local ME then does a thorough external exam and if everything checks out, the body is released. I think these full viewings pay a couple hundred bucks, but I'm not sure of the exact fee b/c I believe a raise just went into effect or is getting ready to take effect.

-any other suspicious deaths, the local ME serves as a contact person with the state office in Richmond, draws blood and vitreous, does an external exam, reviews the chart/hx, etc. If Richmond decides to accept the case, the body is sent there for the actual autopsy.

So, basically, the local ME never does the actual autopsy or testifies. It's limited to chart reviews, external viewings, and drawing samples. The local ME's take call a week at a time and can make 1000 bucks in a week. Not a huge amount when compared to other fields, but still a decent amount for a minimal amount of effort.

I wouldnt drive across town for an hour consulting gig let alone do paperwork for a week for only 1K. Think about that, 1K translates into 52K/year.....so the yearly total as an ME is coming up shy of what a solid earner can make in a WEEK?? no thanks.

I dont want to sound snotty but a very wise senior fellow once told me residency is a short, too short period of time to learn all you need to know. The time spent learning and reading and memorizing in residency WILL save you a ton of time once you hit real life and unless the moonlighting gig was something actually solid, more along the lines of 1K+/8-hr day, I say pass and focus instead on solid training. Depends on what your needs are tho, if you absolutely NEED an extra 1k/week then go for it. I cant imagine the residents who drag a spouse and kids into the medical training hellhole.

 

[CameronFrye]

I wouldnt drive across town for an hour consulting gig let alone do paperwork for a week for only 1K. Think about that, 1K translates into 52K/year.....so the yearly total as an ME is coming up shy of what a solid earner can make in a WEEK?? no thanks.

I dont want to sound snotty but a very wise senior fellow once told me residency is a short, too short period of time to learn all you need to know. The time spent learning and reading and memorizing in residency WILL save you a ton of time once you hit real life and unless the moonlighting gig was something actually solid, more along the lines of 1K+/8-hr day, I say pass and focus instead on solid training. Depends on what your needs are tho, if you absolutely NEED an extra 1k/week then go for it. I cant imagine the residents who drag a spouse and kids into the medical training hellhole.

I definitely get what you're saying (and I haven't made up my mind about doing it yet), but I still think you're overestimating the amount of work this stuff requires. If you make 1000 bucks in a week, you are doing that in much less than 8 hours of work (an external exam takes like 15 minutes to do and that's a couple hundred bucks right there). I'm in Charlottesville, so there are not very many cases that need an ME to get involved. You are also only on call once every 6 weeks or so and you usually just do it while you're on CP, so it doesn't really cut into your other activities (we are banned from moonlighting while on surg path).

 

[kittykat]

I wouldnt drive across town for an hour consulting gig let alone do paperwork for a week for only 1K. Think about that, 1K translates into 52K/year.....so the yearly total as an ME is coming up shy of what a solid earner can make in a WEEK?? no thanks.

I dont want to sound snotty but a very wise senior fellow once told me residency is a short, too short period of time to learn all you need to know. The time spent learning and reading and memorizing in residency WILL save you a ton of time once you hit real life and unless the moonlighting gig was something actually solid, more along the lines of 1K+/8-hr day, I say pass and focus instead on solid training. Depends on what your needs are tho, if you absolutely NEED an extra 1k/week then go for it. I cant imagine the residents who drag a spouse and kids into the medical training hellhole.

I understand what you are saying, but this is a great moonlighting opportunity for those who are interested in forensics and want more ojt, especially considering forensics salaries are at the lowest end of the spectrum in pathology.

I have seen ads for "medical examiners" in some southern states ranging from $75,000 - 150,000, so getting out of bed for $1,000 sounds pretty good especially when trying to supplement your family's income. And as far as learning more in residency ... everytime I look at the job prospects for medical examiners "overtrained (in extraneous areas) and underpaid" comes to mind.