Rvu

[goldbond]

Can we get some people commenting what the going rate per RVU is these days?

Not looking for mgma or amg data… looking for numbers that people are seeing in practice.

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[paindoc007]

Ranges from 50s - 80s. Location location location.

I’m fairly rural. I get about 74. No cap

 

[Ronin1]

72 when you figure in stipend/metrics etc. suburban desirable area 1M cap

 

[pmr11]

64, Large Metro. No Cap.

 

[DOctorJay]

Ended up at $56 last year. Comp model just got updated so will go up slightly next year.

Competing hospital is at $62.50.

Northeast, between 2 major metros.

 

[kstarm]

72, midwest metropolitan area.

 

[Ducttape]

Ended up at $56 last year. Comp model just got updated so will go up slightly next year.

Competing hospital is at $62.50.

Northeast, between 2 major metros.

pretty good for NE.

 

[SgtThunderfistMD]

I was at~65 but it dropped dramatically to ~55 this upcoming year because AMGA median dropped along with a RVU rise.

 

[au bon pain]

pretty good for NE.

What were you expecting for $/wRVU in the NE?

 

[seamonkey]

midwest, hospital employee, at $66 about to go to $67.50

 

[cowboydoc]

$67 going to $70 for 2025 with a solid benefits package, total comp close to $75. No cap. 1 Million person metro in Midwest.

 

[hopefulgasman]

$69

 

[BobBarker]

Good job guys. Crush the office visits and g2211. Don’t give them all away to a midlevel.

 

[PMROralBoards]

$66

 

[clubdeac]

Was 75, dropped to 70 last year and there are talks about a new contract later this yr. If they try dropping it more I may leave

 

[Dr. Ice]

It’s interesting to hear the conversation about the comparative $/rvu. I’m just learning about this comp model, but I’m also pretty impressed by the base salaries that hopd docs get in addition to the productivity where $/rvu matters. To me, just hearing the base salaries alone is impressive. If you know the bench marks you need to maintain your base, can’t you just coast on that? Those numbers by themselves are pretty damn good if you ask me. How much money do people need?

 

[mdo1738]

$62.80, rural Oklahoma

 

[clubdeac]

It’s interesting to hear the conversation about the comparative $/rvu. I’m just learning about this comp model, but I’m also pretty impressed by the base salaries that hopd docs get in addition to the productivity where $/rvu matters. To me, just hearing the base salaries alone is impressive. If you know the bench marks you need to maintain your base, can’t you just coast on that? Those numbers by themselves are pretty damn good if you ask me. How much money do people need?

Most bases are $350-400. I’ve heard about some rare ones at $500k max that’s not common.

 

[mdo1738]

Most bases are $350-400. I’ve heard about some rare ones at $500k max that’s not common.

My base is $750k. Have to hit over 12k RVU per year to bonus (which is not hard with my practice structure), and have to hit 75% of RVU goal (12k goal so 9k) or else can be terminated. I could technically easily coast to 9k RVU and not care about making more than base but bonus structure is incentivizing enough to make it worth pursuing.

 

[paindoc007]

My base is $750k. Have to hit over 12k RVU per year to bonus (which is not hard with my practice structure), and have to hit 75% of RVU goal (12k goal so 9k) or else can be terminated. I could technically easily coast to 9k RVU and not care about making more than base but bonus structure is incentivizing enough to make it worth pursuing.

Fantastic. Benefits of rural living. You can hit 9k in 4 days easily. And enjoy your life and income the rest of your free time.

 

[clubdeac]

My base is $750k. Have to hit over 12k RVU per year to bonus (which is not hard with my practice structure), and have to hit 75% of RVU goal (12k goal so 9k) or else can be terminated. I could technically easily coast to 9k RVU and not care about making more than base but bonus structure is incentivizing enough to make it worth pursuing.

How much do you make if you only hit 9k? If it’s not $750k then that’s not really a base. You are basically working at $62.5/wRVU. That’s well below the 50th percentile of $70/wRVU

Now if OTOH you do make $750k at 9k wRVUs, you’ve won the lottery as far as contracts go. let me know if you ever need a partner!!

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

$60 here, major NE metro. Unfortunately I should also mention I'm on 2020 values. Who else is?

Another local hospital is at $58 and one position employed by Optum is like $52, 2020 values too!

 

[so55b]

My base is $750k. Have to hit over 12k RVU per year to bonus (which is not hard with my practice structure), and have to hit 75% of RVU goal (12k goal so 9k) or else can be terminated. I could technically easily coast to 9k RVU and not care about making more than base but bonus structure is incentivizing enough to make it worth pursuing.

If I were you, I would barely make it to just over 9k every year by working 3 days a week. It will be about $83 wRVU which is pretty sweet. 9k-12k is non paid work.. you work one more day for nothing and benefit your hospital.
I then would consider part time anesthesia/pain somewhere (or whatever your background) to bump my income or do nothing and just chill out.

 

[so55b]

How much do you make if you only hit 9k? If it’s not $750k then that’s not really a base. You are basically working at $62.5/wRVU. That’s well below the 50th percentile of $70/wRVU

Now if OTOH you do make $750k at 9k wRVUs, you’ve won the lottery as far as contracts go. let me know if you ever need a partner!!

He said his base is 750k. 750k/9k =83.333. So even if he makes it to 8k, he will be paid 750k but he may get fired if he keeps doing it. Assuming he is in rural OK, I don’t think they will fire him even if he makes it 8.5k a year. I would keep it barely 9k and get paid 750k and find a second job

 

[Ronin1]

Usually there is some language about adjusting the base downward if some minimal threshold is not reached but maybe not for him. Check the contract

 

[paingate21]

$50/wrvu in the NE - not a major city. Still on 2020 numbers

 

[Ducttape]

What were you expecting for $/wRVU in the NE?

50 near metropolitan areas, 55 in more rural areas

 

[DOctorJay]

50 near metropolitan areas, 55 in more rural areas

that's interesting. when you look at the MGMA data broken up by region eastern is lower for overall comp. however, when you look at the eastern $/wRVU data (from a few years back) it was $63.81 at 25th percentile, and $79.01 at median. I know of one doc getting $70/wRVU at a major academic institution in NY and have heard of another place in NJ getting similar.

I imagine higher base salaries and lower overall total wRVUs accounts for the discrepancy.

 

[Ducttape]

i do not ever remember seeing medians higher than $63.

now there is a sneaky way that some HOPD and academic centers would spout $79 - they would come up those numbers by adding in health and disability insurance, malpractice insurance and matching 401/403.

 

[Inygma]

Our hospital is at $55sh, we keep trying to negotiate higher since we are a (the?) biggest money maker for them.

 

[cowboydoc]

Our hospital is at $55sh, we keep trying to negotiate higher since we are a (the?) biggest money maker for them.

Hopefully you can use that as leverage...but you have to be willing to walk to be serious about playing that card.

I was really in no position to leave, but I took a meeting with a private group's CEO. Some people found out about that, and we happened to get a 5% raise as of 1/1/25. Coincidence? I doubt it.

 

[Inygma]

If it weren't for the convenience and PSLF, I would have put my hat in for sure with Mr. Barker!

 

[jwheezy]

How much do you make if you only hit 9k? If it’s not $750k then that’s not really a base. You are basically working at $62.5/wRVU. That’s well below the 50th percentile of $70/wRVU

Now if OTOH you do make $750k at 9k wRVUs, you’ve won the lottery as far as contracts go. let me know if you ever need a partner!!

Is that 50th percentile $70/wRVU from MGMA?

 

[clubdeac]

Is that 50th percentile $70/wRVU from MGMA?

Yes

 

[wmc24]

Anyone have more recent mgma wrvu numbers and dollars per?

 

[SpineandWine]

Anyone have more recent mgma wrvu numbers and dollars per?

I get $80/wRVU as independent contractor but I only go two half days a month (1 day/month) Volume lacking nor do I want to put more than those two half days
My APP goes for two full days/month to see patients at 60/wRVU that goes to me (I independently salary them)

One of my partners asked for a daily rate and he gets 4k, 5k if he starts at 7 am instead of 8 am + 1k for each of his two APP seeing patients for day as independent contractor
=6-7kx48 weeks
His deal is better than mine

 

[Laryngospasm]

A membership to resolve is a cheap way to keep up with mgma numbers and the overall contract environment.

 

[Meyer-Overton]

I get $80/wRVU as independent contractor but I only go two half days a month (1 day/month) Volume lacking nor do I want to put more than those two half days
My APP goes for two full days/month to see patients at 60/wRVU that goes to me (I independently salary them)

One of my partners asked for a daily rate and he gets 4k, 5k if he starts at 7 am instead of 8 am + 1k for each of his two APP seeing patients for day as independent contractor
=6-7kx48 weeks
His deal is better than mine

That’s a lot of money

 

[au bon pain]

I get $80/wRVU as independent contractor but I only go two half days a month (1 day/month) Volume lacking nor do I want to put more than those two half days
My APP goes for two full days/month to see patients at 60/wRVU that goes to me (I independently salary them)

One of my partners asked for a daily rate and he gets 4k, 5k if he starts at 7 am instead of 8 am + 1k for each of his two APP seeing patients for day as independent contractor
=6-7kx48 weeks
His deal is better than mine

Can you clarify the last part? How many patients and what kind of mme and procedures is the guy doing for 7k/day? And is this guy doing it 5d/week?

 

[lobelsteve]

When people are discussing their wrVU, everyone focuses on the Comp to wRVU ratio.
What about the collections to work wRVU?

 

[Ducttape]

When people are discussing their wrVU, everyone focuses on the Comp to wRVU ratio.
What about the collections to work wRVU?

im a little confused by that stat.

isnt that influenced by the billing department efficiency?

to which, a HOPD would say that that should not reflect the productivity of a physician...

 

[cowboydoc]

When people are discussing their wrVU, everyone focuses on the Comp to wRVU ratio.
What about the collections to work wRVU?


View attachment 398282

Even that doesn't accurately convey physician enterprise value, as it only accounts for professional fee collections. Makes it look like razor-thin margins or even a loss!?!

 

[1 Up]

Really important factor:

MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT FEE SCHEDULE YOU ARE GOING BY. Some places will offer a big fat wRVU conversion rate, but they'll contractually place you on an older physician fee schedule that doesn't reimburse as well for, say, clinic visits, etc.

The 2020 physician fee schedule compensates you about 20% lower for your office visits as compared to 2022 and beyond, so you 100% need to know what year's fee schedule you're on to adequately understand your financial situation as you enter negotiations.

 

[gaspasser127]

Really important factor:

MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT FEE SCHEDULE YOU ARE GOING BY. Some places will offer a big fat wRVU conversion rate, but they'll contractually place you on an older physician fee schedule that doesn't reimburse as well for, say, clinic visits, etc.

The 2020 physician fee schedule compensates you about 20% lower for your office visits as compared to 2022 and beyond, so you 100% need to know what year's fee schedule you're on to adequately understand your financial situation as you enter negotiations.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Really important factor:

MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT FEE SCHEDULE YOU ARE GOING BY. Some places will offer a big fat wRVU conversion rate, but they'll contractually place you on an older physician fee schedule that doesn't reimburse as well for, say, clinic visits, etc.

The 2020 physician fee schedule compensates you about 20% lower for your office visits as compared to 2022 and beyond, so you 100% need to know what year's fee schedule you're on to adequately understand your financial situation as you enter negotiations.

Agree this is important to know. I'm on the 2020 schedule and for some reason the hospital throws it right in my face by having the billing company they use post my RVU figures using the updated values. I was surprised to see that it differs by more like 8-10%. Maybe due to procedure values or G2211 softening the blow? Still significant but not the 20%+ I would've assumed like you.

 

[gaspasser127]

Agree this is important to know. I'm on the 2020 schedule and for some reason the hospital throws it right in my face by having the billing company they use post my RVU figures using the values. I was surprised to see that it differs by more like 8-10%. Maybe due to procedure values or G2211 softening the blow? Still significant but not the 20%+ I would've assumed like you.

G2211 helped. Unfortunately CMS has stopped paying for G2211 in the HOPD setting

 

[Laryngospasm]

You need to update your contract and note that it goes off of last years rvu values, they can put limits on how much it rises or falls. It’s not correct to use 4 year old numbers. Basically fraud on their part as they are being paid based on the new numbers. I would ask them how they are being paid if they balk.. then say why are you withholding part of my pay? Its ridiculous people still do this.

 

[mdo1738]

G2211 helped. Unfortunately CMS has stopped paying for G2211 in the HOPD setting

Source?

 

[BobBarker]

@mdo1738 you are good. Your clinic bills out as a normal outpatient clinic.

 

[paindoc007]

@mdo1738 you are good. Your clinic bills out as a normal outpatient clinic.

Most hospital outpatient offices do, don’t they?