?'s with Caribbean schools vs American schools

[Hopeful07]

Hi everyone.

I have been looking around a few forums here and there and I have not been able to find answers that are not outdated to some of my questions.

I have about one year left of pre-req's for Vet School, and unfortunately my GPA is pretty mediocre. I am planning on raising it and possibly re-taking some classes. (Sophomore year was a bad year). I have not taken my GRE's yet, but I plan on taking them this summer and I have been studying for them. I am confident I am going to do well on them. I have volunteered at a vet clinic off and on for a year, and I am going to do full time work this summer.

In any case, I am going to be applying to some schools this coming fall.

My questions regarding American Vet schools are:

1) Do I have any hope to get in to any of them? I realize I need to raise my GPA and do VERY well on my GRE's.


Also, I have been looking at Caribbean schools, specifically St George, St Matthews, and Ross. St George and St Matthews being my first choices for Caribbean schools and Ross being the very last resort of everything. I have heard mixed reviews about Caribbean schools. So if anyone could give me a little more insight, I would appreciate it!

My questions about Caribbean schools are:

1) Is it hard to get back into the states after attending a Caribbean school? I have heard from some Med Students expressing their situations trying to get back into the States and they seem to have a tough time. I have not heard about any Vet students having difficulties though.

2) Would my husband be able to work in the Caribbean? I know that Ross rarely allows foreigners to obtain work permits, unless through the University. Is this the same with SMU and SGU?

3) Would I be able to bring my cat with me? And when I fly her, would she be able to fly up in the cabin with her? I know it seems unpractical to bring my cat, but leaving her here is simply not an option at this time.


American schools are obviously my first choice and I would prefer to get into them. However, I am worried that my GPA will restrict my possibilities to get into them. Are Caribbean schools worth going too?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys!

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[critterfixer]

I know St. George's turns out some excellent vets and they are affiliated with most of the US vet schools as far as the clinical year goes. I don't know anything about St. Matthews and I would caution you against Ross.

You can take your cat to Grenada, as long as you are careful about which islands you travel through.

Your husband is unlikely to be able to work in the caribbean. But I think there could be an excellent market for someone who wants to run a kennel for student pets while they are out of town or someone who wants to start a pet cargo business. Seriously.

I would keep working on getting that GPA up and kick ass on the GRE. Many vet schools are looking at the whole package, not just grades and test scores, so don't give up. Get some really varied and excellent experience with a lot of different species and some really good LOR and you might have a shot at some US schools.

I would call the admissions department of WSU and ask them how you can improve your chances.

 

[bakaduin]

I can only answer based on my experience talking with a rep from Ross who visited our Prevet club at UF.

1) Said it was pretty easy, you come back, take an extra exam and your done. Although he mentioned that Ross was very close to getting accreditation (spelling) and may have it within the next 4 years.

2) Most likely no work for the hubby.

3) This is one I imagine will be the same with all 3, you would be allowed to have a cat but it would have to be quarantined. (Although at Ross you can ask to quarantine it in your house)

 

[ri23]

With a year left, you can definitely improve your GPA. If you work really hard and great a great GRE score and get your GPA over a 3.0 I think you'll have a decent chance in the US. The only other thing I would do is very your vet experience as much as possible. Good luck!!

 

[luckyduck517]

I"m in a very similiar situation, with not very good grades but everything else (lots of experience, good LORs, etc.), and I'm probably going to apply to both US schools and Carribbean. I'm definitely interested in exotic or zoo medicine: does anyone know if it is possible to go into this area from SGU or Ross? Is there a stigma for vets from the caribbean for getting good internships and residencies?

 

[AuburnPreVet]

Sell yourself where you can... make sure you knock the GRE out of the park, and get some some unique experience so that you can stand out of the crowd a bit. Work on the GPA, it probably won't come up all that much - but the "recent trend" counts at some (most) schools.

Regarding carrib schools - as others have said, they provide an avenue for you to become a vet, if it is really what you want to do. I would caution against Ross, but SGU seems to be a viable option if things don't work out for you in the US. I attended a presentation a year or so ago that Ross hosted at Auburn - the rep from Ross was like a bad car saleswoman. There were HUGE discrepancies between what she said and what the senior students who were rotating at Auburn had to say, on several subjects. Also, I asked about the success of their graduates in finding internships/residencies... and was told that they don't keep those records (???)...👎 *With all of that said, I'm sure they have produced many great vets, and you could be one of them.... however, I think if you do some damage control you can probably make your application work in the US... it may just take a year or two. Just my 2 cents, FWIW.

 

[aggiegolf]

Hello everyone,

I am a veterinary student at St. Matthew's, so hopefully I can help you out with some of these questions. I will start with Hopeful07's questions.

US Veterinary School

Question: Do I have any hope to get in to any of them? I realize I need to raise my GPA and do VERY well on my GRE's.


Answer: Yes you have a chance. Each veterinary school posts official statistics of each incoming class. Most classes have students with GPA's below a 3.0 (but substantial veterinary experience, among other things, will be required in this instance). The first time I applied to Texas A&M University (in state resident), I had a 3.33 GPA, extensive experience, and a letter from the associate dean. I was denied admission. The second time I had slightly higher GRE scores but I was still denied admission to both Texas A&M and several other AVMA accredited universities. Nonetheless, I am glad I gave the US schools a try before heading straight down to the caribbean.

Caribbean Schools:

Question: Is it hard to get back into the states after attending a Caribbean school? I have heard from some Med Students expressing their situations trying to get back into the States and they seem to have a tough time. I have not heard about any Vet students having difficulties though.


Answer: Coming back to the states will not be a problem. In fact, you spend your final year of veterinary school at a US veterinary school (other other veterinary universities across the world.....you get to choose). As a foreign veterinary graduate, you will have two options to choose from in order to obtain licensure in the United States:

1. ECVFG

2. PAVE (only recognized in 24 jurisdictions and states, but the list is growing)

The main difference from US veterinary graduates is a clinical examination, which tests your skills in many areas such as anesthesia, surgery, and radiology. If you choose the caribbean route, the school will explain this procedure to you and prepare you for it.


The medical students are in an entirely different boat. They have to go through a lot of extra loop holes in order to obtain a US medical license. However, most caribbean medical students are successful in this endeavor, especially if their first language is english.


Question: Would my husband be able to work in the Caribbean? I know that Ross rarely allows foreigners to obtain work permits, unless through the University. Is this the same with SMU and SGU?


Answer: This answer pertains to any caribbean school you choose. It will be difficult, if not impossible. However, many veterinary students bring their spouses with them and work it out. Your best bet is to contact the admissions offices or the immigration departments to find out if your husband could work there.

Question: Would I be able to bring my cat with me? And when I fly her, would she be able to fly up in the cabin with her? I know it seems unpractical to bring my cat, but leaving her here is simply not an option at this time.


Answer: Yes, you're cat can join you. If granted admission into a caribbean veterinary school, they will send you information regarding a pet permit and what your options are in importing her to the island.


Question: Are Caribbean schools worth going too?


Answer: Definitely. Many successful veterinarians practicing in the US owe their education to caribbean veterinary schools. You have to understand that once you graduate and enter the field, it will not matter where you went to school. Most veterinarians are familiar with the success of the caribbean veterinary schools and therefore do not hesitate before hiring them. I personally know of a Ross graduate who is currently working in an emergency animal clinic and making 115,000 a year.


luckyduck517 asked:

I'm definitely interested in exotic or zoo medicine: does anyone know if it is possible to go into this area from SGU or Ross? Is there a stigma for vets from the caribbean for getting good internships and residencies?


It is entirely possible to enter this area from SGU, Ross, or St. Matthew's. The standard veterinary curriculum at ANY school does not cover this area very much, if at all. This comes into play if you want to pursue an internship in exotic or zoo medicine.

I wouldn't say that there is a stigma, but if the spots are limited and a Cornell student and a caribbean student are applying for the same position, obviously they will lean towards the Cornell kid. However, caribbean students have substantially more experience in this area, and the people in charge of residencies would hopefully know that.




With that being said, I would strongly recommend applying to US vet schools at least twice. And if you decide to apply twice, your application needs to have been strengthened substantially or you're wasting your time.

If you come to the caribbean, you will undoubtedly receive very high quality education from SGU, Ross, or SMU. The only difference is that it's less convenient and a little more complicated when getting licensed in the US. The reason that most people come here is because a US school never gave them a chance. So we had to choose between finding another career path (which I could never do) or finding an alternative.


When choosing a caribbean school, be very careful. The first school I ever heard of was Ross, so I made a personal visit to the campus. The school was fine, but the crime rate wasn't. I spoke with several students personally that had either been a victim of a crime themselves, or had a classmate who did. The island does not have many food options that we are used to in the states, so be prepared for that if you choose to go there.

St. George's has better facilities and the island of Grenada is safer and cleaner. However, I found it to be a little sketchy regarding crime and standard of living.

Lastly, I visited St. Matthew's in Grand Cayman. The facilities are nice, the faculty is amazing, and the students are friendly and helpful. Grand Cayman is a first world country, not a third world. It has everything you are used to having in the United States. More importantly, however, you will receive a very good education if you come here.


I apologize for the length, but hopefully some of this will help you out as you make this decision. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I wish you the best.


Michael
St. Matthew's '11

 

[AuburnPreVet]

Aggie- Be sure to update us once you've been there for a while. St. Mathew's isn't a school we hear about very often (when compared to SGU, Ross) so I'd love to know what you think of it, as a current student.

 

[sms25]

I would encourage you to apply in the US. I'm a first-year (soon to be second-year!) at Tuskegee and they look for a well rounded applicant. I know a few people in my class that had about a 3.0 for undergrad and got in. I'm sure other schools do, too. You rarely ever see a range, just an average, so don't get discouraged. It can't hurt to contact your state school and see what they think you need to do to improve your chances.

I know a doctor that graduated from Ross, and she had no problem passing her boards and finding a job in the US. She's an excellent doctor. I spoke to her about Ross before I was accepted at Tuskegee and she had great things to say about the school. Living on the island wasn't the greatest, but she said if she had to do it all over again, she's still go to Ross. The plus side of Ross is they have trimesters (no summers off), so you graduate in 3.5 years instead of 4. I was going to go there if I didn't get into a school in the US. I know someone in their 4th year at St. George's and she loves it there. Once again, it was difficult living on the island, but she recommends her school.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the schools. Just look into each one carefully and choose one that you think you'll do well at. No matter where you go you're going to have to work your butt off, but in the end-- no matter where you go-- you'll be a DVM. Good luck! 🙂

 

[Hopeful07]

I would like to thank everyone for their helpful and quick responses! I really appreciate it!

About Ross, I have heard before about the crime there, and was curious what kind of crimes are we talking about? Theft crimes? Rape crimes? Other crimes?

Also, Michael, I know Ross has Fafsa available, do you know if St George and St Matthews has the same availability for loans? When I look through their websites, I can just find information about private loan companies. And if that is all that's available, how easy is it to get loans through the private companies without a co-signer?

Thanks again everyone. This post has helped me out a lot!
Take care.

 

[Okemu]

As a foreign veterinary graduate, you will have two options to choose from in order to obtain licensure in the United States:

1. ECVFG

2. PAVE (only recognized in 24 jurisdictions and states, but the list is growing)

Also note that the ECVFG costs ~$6,000 to take. I believe that the PAVE is less expensive, but I do not know the exact cost. Also, some states only require the regular boards, same as any US school. If you ONLY want to practice in these states (I think NY is one of them, for example), that's all you need.

 

[Hopeful07]

Wow, 6000? Does anyone know how much PAVE cost? And how difficult is it to pass ECVFG or PAVE? Can they be compared to Step 1 boards for Doctor's?

So one of these tests are only required for foreign vet students looking to work in the US?

Thanks!

 

[Nexx]

I don't know if the other schools are approved by the Federal Loan program but when you do your FAFSA you can "lookup" your school codes.

In the drop-down box of locations you choose "Foreign country"
Then use the keyword search and type in Ross/Saint Georges/St. Georges, etc and see if they show up. If they do then you have your answer 😉

 

[Nexx]

Found it on the FAFSA website actually.. so I hope this helps

ST GEORGE'S UNIV, SCH OF MEDICINE
UNIVERSITY CENTRE
ST GEORGE'S
Federal School Code: G22333

St. Matthew's is not showing up in the search (oddly, neither is Ross), and St. George's would appear to be for the Med School only.


Here is the search site:
http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/FOTWWebApp/FSLookupServlet

 

[bakaduin]

Also on the Grand Cayman you can buy Tortuga Rum cakes! DELICIOUS!

 

[Wisco]

Also on the Grand Cayman you can buy Tortuga Rum cakes! DELICIOUS!

Thats it! I am going.

 

[aggiegolf]

We have covered a lot of ground on this thread already! Let me start with the PAVE and ECVFG.


I had always been told that the PAVE was cheaper. However, I was reading their website last night, and one of the examinations costs 5000 dollars. So I honestly don't know if the ECVFG is truly that much cheaper or not. I've heard the ECVFG has longer waiting lists, but most applicants complete the requirements within 1 year of getting out of vet school (3 out of the 4 steps on the ECVFG can be completed before graduating from vet school).

There are so many rumors about these programs that it's difficult to know what the hard facts are. I would just google PAVE and ECVFG and read about it on the official websites.


As for loans, I don't know much about them. However, practically everyone down here gets them, so they can't be too hard to get. I think you can get a TERI loan. If you would like to learn more about SMU financial aid, you can email our Director of Financial Aid at [email protected].


As for the crimes committed against students at Ross, it appears to mostly be theft and/or assault. However, the island is so small that any crime is pretty much amplified. So I decided to make a personal visit to get some real answers. I spoke with one of the students about crime, and she said that earlier that week a man with a knife had broken into a female student's apartment. She woke up, and he said "Be quiet and I won't hurt you." Then her dog scared the man away. If you do decide to attend Ross, be sure to bring a big dog with you. The locals are terrified of dogs, since the only people who have any dogs are the police force. Some female students even take their dog into town with them when they're shopping.

I think Ross and St. George's are fantastic universities, but the crime and standard of living made me lean toward St. Matthew's. Several students at SMU have transferred in from Ross and SGU. And their reasons were from living conditions and not feeling safe. They feel that the quality of education is the same at St. Matthew's.


Hopeful07 asked:

How difficult is it to pass ECVFG or PAVE? Can they be compared to Step 1 boards for Doctor's?

Answer: Most students seem to do fine. I believe the USMLE Step 1 is only a quantitative multiple choice exam, while the ECVFG and PAVE programs have a clinical exam that you must take. But the USMLE Step 1 is only the first of quite a few exams that medical students have to take. Medical students have to take practical exams as well, resident or foreign.


So one of these tests are only required for foreign vet students looking to work in the US?

Answer: That is correct. You will given the choice between PAVE or ECVFG. Each program has its advantages/disadvantages. If you go to the following site and look under "general information", you will see a pdf file available that compares the PAVE and ECVFG:

http://www.aavsb.org/PAVE/PAVEHome.aspx



I will be sure to make additional posts after I have been at St. Matthew's a little longer. The school is still in its infancy, so there's a lot of exciting growth happening right now. A new veterinary surgical clinic is being built. It's also hard to find pictures of this school, so I will try and post some pictures soon so people who are interested in the caribbean schools will have an idea of what it's like down here.


Have a great day!!!!

 

[bubbles525]

Hi Hopeful,
You may get in with your GPA if you apply to the right schools, schools that focus on the whole applications not just the gpa, you have a kick a** GRE and you have really good experience/LOR. Or you might not, or it might take you 4 more years of improving you application through a masters and really awesome experience in a variety of places etc. It is possible and you just won't know until you try. It seems like a crap shoot to me most years with who gets in and who doesn't. You certainly can get in eventually if you keep working at improving every year.

All that being said there are options other than US schools and schools in the Caribbean. There are AVMA accredited schools in the UK, Australian and New Zealand. You can apply, go there, and come back with no extra fees or exams or red tape of any kind. You can bring you cat (different quarenteen/protocols for the different countries). Your husband can come and work since you are married and may apply for his own work visa (definatly for AU and NZ and I'm pretty sure about the UK). And depending on the school it may cost less than going to a US school. Please check it out if you decide to pursue options outside of the US.

 

[quakk]

Answer: Coming back to the states will not be a problem. In fact, you spend your final year of veterinary school at a US veterinary school (other other veterinary universities across the world.....you get to choose). As a foreign veterinary graduate, you will have two options to choose from in order to obtain licensure in the United States:

1. ECVFG

2. PAVE (only recognized in 24 jurisdictions and states, but the list is growing)

in particular the part about pave being recognised by 24 jurisdictions. in 2005, i believe it was only 17. so it appears to be growing fast.

 

[Hopeful07]

Thanks Nexx for looking those up for me. I'm surprised that Ross doesn't show up, because on their website they are the only ones I actually FOUND that said that Fafsa was used. But I'm really glad that St Georges has it as well.

Aggiegolf, you have been incredibly helpful. Thanks for information about the TERI loan, PAVE, and ECVFG, I plan on looking at that as soon as I'm done with this post. I do like the idea of St Matthews, it really sounds great. (And so do the Tortuga rum cakes! haha)

Bubbles, I had looked at Australia previously and I think I got some wrong advice from some people because I was under the impression that they were not affiliated with any American Schools, and that they only offered a bachelors of Veternary science and not in fact a DVM. I will have to take a second look!

Thanks guys!

 

[Okemu]

All that being said there are options other than US schools and schools in the Caribbean. There are AVMA accredited schools in the UK, Australian and New Zealand.

And don't forget Canada! Does anyone know the difficulty level of being accepted to Canadian vet schools? I assume the quality of education is at least on the level of the average American school.

(There are 4 schools in Canada - Universite de Montreal-Quebec, University of Guelph, University of Prince Edward Island, and University of Saskatchewan)

 

[chris03333]

And don't forget Canada! Does anyone know the difficulty level of being accepted to Canadian vet schools? I assume the quality of education is at least on the level of the average American school.

(There are 4 schools in Canada - Universite de Montreal-Quebec, University of Guelph, University of Prince Edward Island, and University of Saskatchewan)

Just as difficult as getting into a US school

 

[aggiegolf]

Just as difficult as getting into a US school

Indeed. Many of my classmates are from Canada.



As for the Australian schools, a few are AVMA approved. The terms are a little different though, so that might have been what threw you off. Down there, I believe the degree is called a BVSc, not a DVM. They are equivalent, however.

I believe it also takes 5 years at the schools in Australia and the UK.

 

[bubbles525]

Bubbles, I had looked at Australia previously and I think I got some wrong advice from some people because I was under the impression that they were not affiliated with any American Schools, and that they only offered a bachelors of Veternary science and not in fact a DVM. I will have to take a second look!

Thanks guys!

The Australian AVMA accredited schools are Murdoch (where I'll be going in July), Sydney, and Melbourne. None of them are affiliated with American schools they are stand alone accredited programs. All of them are for 5 year programs with the ability to be exempt from one or both semesters first year. I'll be at Murdoch for 4.5 years. You do not receive a DVM (or VMD) it is a "bachelors" there. However, this is just terminology. The degrees are equivalent and you can come home, practice, and even be called "Doctor." I just won't me able to sign my name Bubbles D.V.M. Here's the link to the AVMA's page on foreign accredited schools, http://www.avma.org/education/cvea/colleges_accredited/foreign.asp

 

[InfiniVet]

I just won't me able to sign my name Bubbles D.V.M.

*giggles*

Sorry, that sounds really cute.
"Hi Dr. Bubbles, yes my cat has been sick, and I must say Dr. Bubbles, I'm very worried about her."

 

[aggiegolf]

I would also look into the University of Glasgow in Scotland. It's a great school, AVMA accredited, and they seem to be less quantitative than many other veterinary schools. They hold on to your application longer and give you thorough consideration. I was at the top of their waiting list but I was never pulled off. But their application numbers are rising so it is getting more competitive.

 

[thomphea]

The Australian AVMA accredited schools are Murdoch (where I'll be going in July), Sydney, and Melbourne. None of them are affiliated with American schools they are stand alone accredited programs. All of them are for 5 year programs with the ability to be exempt from one or both semesters first year. I'll be at Murdoch for 4.5 years. You do not receive a DVM (or VMD) it is a "bachelors" there. However, this is just terminology. The degrees are equivalent and you can come home, practice, and even be called "Doctor." I just won't me able to sign my name Bubbles D.V.M. Here's the link to the AVMA's page on foreign accredited schools, http://www.avma.org/education/cvea/colleges_accredited/foreign.asp

I think buisness cards with "Bubbles DVM" might be a good idea. It would be a name that your clients wouldn't forget.😉

 

[bubbles525]

I think buisness cards with "Bubbles DVM" might be a good idea. It would be a name that your clients wouldn't forget.😉

hehehe

The names that I might be called are not quite as fun as that Point being I'll really be Bubbles BSc, BVMS and that still makes me Dr. Bubbles I still get to be a vet, and I get to live in Australia while I go to school.

 

[silverelf]

And don't forget Canada! Does anyone know the difficulty level of being accepted to Canadian vet schools? I assume the quality of education is at least on the level of the average American school.

(There are 4 schools in Canada - Universite de Montreal-Quebec, University of Guelph, University of Prince Edward Island, and University of Saskatchewan)

well there are really only 3, unless you speak fluent french......

 

[Nexx]

And at that, you can even knock it down to 2, as I thought Saskatchewan was pretty much 'no internationals' accepted.