Originally posted by NYgirl:
•I copied this from a book on foreign med schools.....
The New York State Education Dept accredits Sackler as if it were a NY school (the national accreditation agency for medical schools in the US, Canada and Puerto Rico, the LCME, does not). In the days when ECFMG certification required a different set of exams than those used subsequently for lisensure, the State of NY did not require ECFMG certification for Sackler grads. The National Board of Medical Examiners, perhaps the biggest bastion of reservations about foreign medical schools, freely cooperates with Sackler, making available to their students the same practice exams that they routinely sell to US med schools, but never to foreign ones.
This is directly from Sackler's web site and in a book about foreign med schools.....
NATIONAL RESIDENCY MATCHING PROGRAM (NRMP)
The NRMP is a private, computer-based operation which provides a mechanism for teaching hospitals/institutions and senior medical students to rank, respectively, their choices for post-graduate positions. Sackler students enter their Rank Order Lists directly onto a computer diskette. The diskette is forwarded to the Matching Program, data from the diskette is fed into the Match computer and the Match process begins. The results of the Match are forwarded to the New York office the following March and conveyed immediately to Israel via fax. Once an application is accepted by the NRMP, NO DISTINCTION is made by NRMP between graduates of U.S. schools and Sackler/Tel Aviv University. Early matches are required in the following subjects: Ophthalmology, Otolaryngology, Neurology and Neurosurgery. Information can be obtained in the Tel Aviv office.
I hope this clears things up.•
Thank you for posting the above information. I assume the first paragraph is from Carlos Pestana's book. Unfortunately, it is outdated and incorrect on 2 points (I have found many errors in his book):
1)"In the days when ECFMG certification required a different set of exams than those used subsequently for lisensure, the State of NY did not require ECFMG certification for Sackler grads. "
Perhaps that was true when the exams for licensure and ECFMG certification differed. However, currently, the set of exams for ECFMG certification are the SAME set of exams (plus the TOELF and CSA) required for licensure. I may be wrong, but I believe ECFMG certification is now required for ALL graduates outside of the US and Canada. If you read Pestana's statement again I think you will see that he is saying that NY USED to not require ECFMG certification.
2)The NBME currently "freely" cooperates with a number of foreign schools. The exams he is talking about are the NBME Shelf or subject exams and these are available at a number of foreing schools, including mine in Australia, as well as St. George's in the Caribbean. Sackler holds no special favours as far as that is concerned. As a point of interest, when the shelf exams were made available to my school in Australia, we were told (by the NBME) we were the ONLY school outside of the US and Canada to have them. This was found not to be true.
Frankly, I have no idea what it means to you to have the school "accredited" by the state of NY when it is not LCME accredited. Non-LCME students are still generally required to have ECFMG certificates (this is a national regulation, not state by state)and participate in the match as an IMG. Perhaps the statement means that because the school is accredited by NY, that you are not "seen" as an IMG as much as someone who went to a Caribbean school. This is a benefit, but accreditation or not, Sackler and most first world country schools have that advantage anyway. I'm not a PD in the state of NY but did work with a Sackler FP resident in California; I know its a good school. Pestana is making the same point with his statements; I just don't know if accreditation helps you in the residency process anymore than going to any school which is well-regarded internationally. T
he 2nd statement is more intruging because it seems to conflict with other information on the same TAU web site. Directly above the paragraph you have posted is a discussion of the exams needed for US licensure/certification. The exams are Step 1 and 2, the TOELF and CSA. Only the last 2 are required for IMGs and ECFMG certification. Since there is no notation on the web site (nor ECFMG's) that Sackler students are exempt from these requirements, I can only assume that they have posted them because you ARE required to complete them and get your ECFMG certificate. The remainder of the paragraph you sounds no different than that for any other NRMP applicant, except that disks for ROLs are no longer used (everything is done on-line). What is written, up to the last couple of lines, is simply the procedure for participating in the match - the procedure is the same for IMGs and AMGs alike.
Thus, what they've written appears to be contradictory - I don't believe they are trying to be dishonest but rather have not presented the information as clearly as they should. Perhaps when they say that Sackler students are "treated NO DIFFERENTLY" in the match than US students, they are referring to issues of EOE - it is illegal for US residency programs or the match to discriminate against IMGs. Or perhaps Sackler serves as your Dean's office rather than ECFMG (as is the case for IMGs) and uploads your documentation (ie, Dean's letter, LORs, transcripts, etc.) to the ERAS NRMP server. This makes NO difference to you; it does not affect your application one way or the other, as long as the information gets on the server for the programs to download. Their description of the process is outdated - nearly all programs use a the computerized centralized application procedure.
I looked at the NRMP website, my NRMP enrollment application and the handbook sent to all applicants for the 2001 match: no where could I find a notation that Sackler students are treated any different than students graduating from any other school outside of the US or Canada. When you enroll you either select US Seniors (students at LCME accreddited allopathic schools) or Independent Applicant (all IMGS, Canadian, DO students and graduated physicians)as your category. The ONLY difference between the process for US Seniors and IMGs is that IMGs are required to have completed all the exams for ECFMG certification to remain in the match past ROL day. Otherwise, applications, interviews, etc. are all handled for IMGs just as they are for AMGs.
My final question is, if a special arrangement does exist which provides Sackler students with non-IMG status (ie, you do not have to have an ECFMG certificate), is this ONLY the case in New York? Understandably, you may want to stay in NY, but consider that it is limiting your options by only applying to programs in one area (especially for some of the more competitive matches).
I'm not trying to discourage you from attending Sackler; far from it. But I know the Pestana information is outdated and as Stinky Tofu and I have noted, there appears to be no mention of any different status for Sackler students via the NRMP or ECFMG. I would venture that you ARE required to have an ECFMG certificate based on the information from TAU's own web site, so you should check it out with the NRMP, ECFMG and the State Medical Board of New York. Talking to a RECENT graduate of Sackler would also be wise.
Please let us know what you find out as I would be very interested to know the final word from the "horse's mouth" (NRMP, ECFMG and State of NY as well as residency programs outside of the state of NY) rather than from Sackler. I want to be able to advise future users of the current status, so would appreciate it if you would let us know your findings.
Best of luck!