Sackler School of Medicine-Israel-M.D. vs. NYCOM (DO)

[jbru3423]

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Hey all,

I was wondering if I could gather some advice from those who know much more than I do. To set the scene, at this point I have a spot in next year's class at the Sackler School of Medicine/New York State American Program (all in English, but in Israel) where at the end I would be an MD and an IMG. I also have a spot in the incoming class at NYCOM, a DO school in Long Island, NY.

I have a strong interest in Anesthesiology, and have spent time shadowing, and learning more and more about the field. At this time I think it may be a great fit for me, but I fully understand that my preferences my change as I proceed through medical school.

That being said, I was wondering if anyone could speak to which of my two options (Sackler vs. NYCOM) would provide me with the greatest opportunities in Anesthesiology in terms of matching.

Thank you in advance, and my sincere gratitude goes out to all who are willing to help me sort this situation out.

 

[karizma098]

i have a really bad feeling about how this thread may or may not regenerate, but what the heck, here's my .02 :

when i was applying to medical school, there was a pretty simple rubric we followed:


Apply to MD, a few DO, and a few foreign MD schools. American MD is always the best option, followed by US DO, followed by the upper tier foreign medical schools.

Though there are exceptions, your chances for landing a residency in anesthesia are probably better off coming from a DO school vs a foreign medical school. Also you'll be a lot better off for rotations and the sort. I go to CCOM in chicago and our class usually does pretty well in the residency match, and we had a good amount of people match anesthesia this year.

i know of a few programs that aren't very DO friendly, but i can definitely say that most program directors will prefer a US grad DO vs an IMG if stats and applications are essentially the same. I know that Sackler has a slightly better reputation than other IMG schools, but at the end of the day, it's still a foreign school, and you have to move to another country, which is, well, not something everyone wants to do.

i'm sure if you work hard you will be able to become a great anesthesiologist from either school. I would recommend the DO route, as long as you're comfortable with the minor amount of BS you may face from some people about the DO thing, and you are comfortable knowing that you will have to take the DO boards and learn osteopathic manipulation, which is a pseudoscience at best.


i read in your earlier post that you felt that sackler provided a better education than a DO school would, but you're mistaken about that. The first 2 years of clinical education are pretty much the same everywhere, everyone has to learn the same stuff and take the boards, wether it's a DO school, american MD school, or foreign MD school. The biggest problem with sackler vs an american DO school is your clinical rotations - you will mostly be in tel aviv, with a few rotations in america. in my opinion this puts you at a huge disadvantage in terms of clinical education as well as opportunities to network with program directors. i thought all of this through pretty deeply myself a few years ago, and i think i made the best decision by coming to a DO school.

in all honesty, i know some may disagree, but program directors and physicians have always told me to go the DO route vs. any foreign medical school, both for reputation's sake and for clinical exposure's sake.

either way, you'll be a physician in a few years and either option will probably work out just fine. good luck.

 

[doctor712]

Congrats on the acceptances, OP. I went to CU and my dad and sister are NYIT alumni, I think Sackler has the affiliation with Columbia Med school, or am I confusing that with another Israeli program? If that's the case, I was under the impression that you get to do your 3rd year or 4th year at Columbia in NYC.

IF, and that's a BIG IF, then maybe Sackler would be a nice option? Get to impress people here in the states, and also talk about the international experience at a busy place like Sackler...?

NYCOM is on Long Island not far from where I grew up. It's about as far from Tel Aviv as you can imagine. In many ways. So, if Sackler isn't the CUMC/Israeli program I'm thinking of, than maybe the DO route would get you more for your future anesthesia plans. I don't know what hospitals NYIT are affiliated with now when it comes to clinical rotations, especially anesthesia, do you have any idea? I would say if you can spend some time at a hospital with an ANESTHESIA residency program, GOOD. If it's going to be Plainview or Huntington Hospital, as an anesthesia elective, and NYCOM is light on anesthesia overall, (who knows) then maybe it would serve the purpose? If they can place you at Schneiders LIJ for a Peds elective, or North Shore, or St. Francis, then maybe the DO would get you great anesthesia experience and a US degree...

I'm trying to give location and school specific advice, from a distance. Others can debate the DO vs Israeli issue. I think Sackler does have a good reputation. I think it's on par with the UK or Irish schools, but it's still an IMG program.

Here's a question: it's June 2. Is this for THIS Sept? Don't you have to commit by May 15? If this is for next year, then, apps just opened yesterday, how'd you get accepted in one day? 😀 What's the exact timeline? Any further chance of getting into a US program, MD?

GOOD LUCK, CONGRATS and continued success!

D712

note: i just checked, i was thinking of ben gurion in israel/columbia u. this program:
http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/bgcu-md/Gurion.html

 

[RussianJoo]

I think the best thing to do would be to look at the match results for the last couple of years for both schools. I would guess that NYCOM has a slightly better match list than Sackler. Also are you fluent in Hebrew, even though classes are taught in English your patients during your clinical rotations will be speaking Hebrew.

The stigma that one faces with being a DO is the same as one would face with being an IMG so I don't really think that's a huge issue at all.

One huge advantage like mentioned above is clinical rotations in the US. Also being a US grad you'll have more oppertunities doing away or audition rotations at other unaffiliated Universities, most won't allow IMGs to do those. after being on the interview trail this past season I have met multiple DO's with lower board scores and gpa's than mine that had many more interviews than me granted I am not a Sackler grad, but SGU is also a very well known and respected school, regardless I matched and chances are so will you no matter which school you pick, however, I probably could have matched at a better program had I gone to a DO school.

So take a look at the match lists, they should be located on the schools websites and see which school has a better match list, if you want post them here and we'll comment on the quality of the programs that students matched into from both schools.

 

[Jay K]

I've known DO's and American citizen IMG's who are anesthesiologists. For what it's worth, I've known more DO's. I'm fairly certain it's more difficult to match as an IMG than as a DO into anesthesiology. Additionally, your standardized test scores, GPA and resultant Dean's letter will make the most difference, followed by letters of recommendation. Once you're in private practice it won't matter a lick where you trained, only to a slightly lesser degree for academics.

 

[karizma098]

I've known DO's and American citizen IMG's who are anesthesiologists. For what it's worth, I've known more DO's. I'm fairly certain it's more difficult to match as an IMG than as a DO into anesthesiology. Additionally, your standardized test scores, GPA and resultant Dean's letter will make the most difference, followed by letters of recommendation. Once you're in private practice it won't matter a lick where you trained, only to a slightly lesser degree for academics.

i agree. either route can get you where you want to be, but it's definitely a fact that you will need higher board scores and a stronger application to match than your DO counterparts if you go to sackler. the whole american rotation thing is a hassle too. most of sackler's rotations are in tel aviv.

 

[Kilosh]

I had the same options as you and was really serious about going to Sackler when people I respected in the medical field overwhelmingly told me to go to NYCOM and stay in the states. As a graduated fourth year from NYCOM starting my anesthesiology residency in a few weeks, I would have to agree with previous posters. Look at the 2010 NRMP stats, you clearly have a better chance of matching if you go DO vs IMG. Furthermore, I got interviews at big name places in Boston and NYC where my friends from Sackler got none. One person from Sackler this year I know of got Anesthesiology and he scrambled into a program that did not match all its spots. In addition, many of Sackler students I met this year told me that they felt their clinical education (latter two years of med school) was lacking and in my opinion, those are the year where you really learn. My suggestion to you would be go onto websites for both schools, check out the match lists and compare the last couple years for anesthesiology.

PM me if I can offer any more advice.

Good Luck,

K

 

[taylorm19832001]

Go to NYCOM. I graduated from there this year and the anesthesia matches we had for 2010 were impressive. Not to name any names, but we had one student match with the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio and two at the University of Rochester (two very good programs). As an Army applicant, I matched at Walter Reed for anesthesia. NYCOM has great clinical rotations, and as long as you work hard and get good board scores, you can match at great programs.

 

[jbru3423]

Thank you all so much for all of the help...

I sincerely appreciate it. In many ways it seems that if I could have just gotten into a US MD school all of my issues would be resolved. However, I try to remain optimistic that there is some glimmer of hope that I might get accepted off of the alternate-list at GW as that is the only US MD school that I am still in the running at for this admissions cycle.

I will need to make my decision soon, and unfortunately, it does not appear that I will be sleeping anytime soon as a result.

Thanks again...

 

[IlDestriero]

Thank you all so much for all of the help...

I sincerely appreciate it. In many ways it seems that if I could have just gotten into a US MD school all of my issues would be resolved. However, I try to remain optimistic that there is some glimmer of hope that I might get accepted off of the alternate-list at GW as that is the only US MD school that I am still in the running at for this admissions cycle.

I will need to make my decision soon, and unfortunately, it does not appear that I will be sleeping anytime soon as a result.

Thanks again...

Make sure you follow up with the Dean of Admissions, by phone and email if possible confirming your commitment and desire to go to GW over DO or FMG. Also, if you have any real connection there, now is the time for you or your parents, etc. to call in that favor. A waitlist is fluid and the Dean can make things happen. It's not too late, so don't give up.

 

[karizma098]

Make sure you follow up with the Dean of Admissions, by phone and email if possible confirming your commitment and desire to go to GW over DO or FMG. Also, if you have any real connection there, now is the time for you or your parents, etc. to call in that favor. A waitlist is fluid and the Dean can make things happen. It's not too late, so don't give up.

this can't be stressed enough. i was waitlisted at loyola and IU , and I sat around and waited hoping to get taken off the waitlist, while a classmate of mine had his father ( who is a physician at loyola ) speak with the admissions department and the dean. he got admitted with lower stats - to this day i regret not taking more action while on the waitlist, i assumed 'connections' didn't really work much at allo schools, and i was wrong.

Do ANYTHING in your power to get off that waitlist, you've literally got nothing to lose.

good luck.

 

[SleepIsGood]

Make sure you follow up with the Dean of Admissions, by phone and email if possible confirming your commitment and desire to go to GW over DO or FMG. Also, if you have any real connection there, now is the time for you or your parents, etc. to call in that favor. A waitlist is fluid and the Dean can make things happen. It's not too late, so don't give up.

agree with above...do ANYTHING you can to attend ANY allopathic medical school in the US. If you decide to go thrugh with one of the other options, be ready to 'deal' with it for the rest of residency and beyond.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Definitely go MD in the US if you can. Otherwise, DO or take a year off and re-apply US MD.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

agree with above...do ANYTHING you can to attend ANY allopathic medical school in the US. If you decide to go thrugh with one of the other options, be ready to 'deal' with it for the rest of residency and beyond.

Here's what I did to "deal" with being a DO:

Busted ass in school
Took and passed all three steps of the USMLE
Did some rotations at places I thought I might like to go and where I thought I could get some letters from
Got said letters
Applied far and wide
Went on a lot of interviews and took nothing for granted
Flew under the radar and completed residency at a great place
Got a great job making lots of money
Got used to briefly expalining about DO every now and then along the way but didn't worry about it a whole lot

Being a DO is not like Superman with Kryptonite around his neck. Sure, being an MD would have made life a little easier but I am doing pretty good right now.