SAE obsolete?

[nleeds24]

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Hey guys wanted to get everyone's opinion on this.

I submitted an application to an ACGME pain fellowship. They wrote back asking for my in-service exam scores. I informed them that I'm no longer in residency and have already passed both the written and oral boards to become certified in PM&R. I included my certification letter as well as my diploma from ABPMR in the original application. After she speaks with the Assoc. PD the coordinator insists on my scores. Now am I crazy or does this make no sense? Its akin to someone asking what my SAT score was while applying for residency. (Hello..McFly?)

 

[Tenesma]

that is totally bogus

 

[Dr. Ice]

that is totally bogus

it is...but its just another level of control. We should all start getting real used to **** like this is the future...

 

[nleeds24]

I was wondering. Is this a way to weed out physiatrists in favor of anesthesia applicants? This is the only incentive I can think of that makes sense. I wish they would just say so on their website..save me the trouble of applying. Has anyone else experienced something like this before?

 

[lobelsteve]

So send them a copy of your SAE scores, big deal.
But if they do not accept any non-anes fellows that year, be sure to file a grievance with the RRC.

 

[Pain_doc]

Okay. I don't know what SAE scores are. However, I was out in practice for more than a decade when I decided to return to academia for a pain fellowship. Board-certified, etc. already.

The programs wanted all kinds of stuff. The Dean's letter from medical school (that Dean is dead and has been replaced 3 times over already). Step scores. My board scores. I furnished them everything. I asked them why in the interview process. The program directors informed me that its one more screening tool/ego tool for the program. "It's nice to report that 100% of the pain fellows are BC/BE and scored in the top 1%, etc." Same old, same old.

Another friend told me the story of his coming to this country. He was trained in a foreign country. To obtain his license here, he had to repeat some training. In the process, he had to provide information and transcripts from his education--including high school. He provided all that he could, but the sticking point was the high school transcripts. They finally relented when he provided evidence that his high school was destroyed by bombs during internal conflicts within his country......

 

[brori]

A friend of mine was asked to provide MCAT scores when applying to a GI fellowship

 

[nleeds24]

Oh man that is rough. Transcripts from a bombed out high school. I guess ultimately lobelsteve is right - I'm just gonna have to pony up those SAE's. Now if I could only find them..

BTW I appreciate everyone's input. I wish I knew about this website when I was in medschool/residency.

 

[Xardas]

Hey guys wanted to get everyone's opinion on this.

I submitted an application to an ACGME pain fellowship. They wrote back asking for my in-service exam scores. I informed them that I'm no longer in residency and have already passed both the written and oral boards to become certified in PM&R. I included my certification letter as well as my diploma from ABPMR in the original application. After she speaks with the Assoc. PD the coordinator insists on my scores. Now am I crazy or does this make no sense? Its akin to someone asking what my SAT score was while applying for residency. (Hello..McFly?)

It makes no sense.. it is the kind of move that gives bad vibes and bad vibes are never good when you are looking into a new position. Rule of thumb - always go into a job with a good feeling.

 

[nleeds24]

Yeah I hear you. If I can get my hand on those scores then I'll submit them. If not then I'll just move on. Life's too short..

 

[Idiopathic]

But if they do not accept any non-anes fellows that year, be sure to file a grievance with the RRC.

why? what are sae scores anyway?

is your assumption that just by asking for those scores, then the program is committing to accepting non-anesthesia trained personnel?

 

[DOctorJay]

Self Assessment Exams
it's a test PM&R residents take yearly to assess their knowledge of the specialty. I think anesthesia residents take something similar but must call it something else.

 

[lobelsteve]

why? what are sae scores anyway?

is your assumption that just by asking for those scores, then the program is committing to accepting non-anesthesia trained personnel?

Programs are not allowed to tell you that they do not accept non-anes fellows.
But there are several who never have due to PD bias.

These programs need to be sanctioned- of course with the upcoming changes- these programs may just disappear altogether and spring up in another department.

 

[nleeds24]

I got this from Thomas Jefferson pain fellowship website:

Candidate Requirements
A valid Pennsylvania medical license and training license as well as a DEA certificate are required. The applicant must be anesthesiology board eligible or certified.

I've seen similar requirements on other anesthesia fellowship websites. I think they have free rein to exclude other specialities and still keep ACGME status.

 

[lobelsteve]

http://acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/sh_multiPainPR707.pdf

I think that flies in the face of the intent of the multidisciplinary requirements.

 

[Taus]

I got this from Thomas Jefferson pain fellowship website:

Candidate Requirements
A valid Pennsylvania medical license and training license as well as a DEA certificate are required. The applicant must be anesthesiology board eligible or certified.

I've seen similar requirements on other anesthesia fellowship websites. I think they have free rein to exclude other specialities and still keep ACGME status.

Regardless of what is stated on their website, they have absolutely taken several PM&R grads in recent years (mostly in-house from Jeff).

 

[nleeds24]

Regardless of what is stated on their website, they have absolutely taken several PM&R grads in recent years (mostly in-house from Jeff).

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe its a new policy. Maybe the only way a physiatrist gets in is by being from Jeff. All I can say is I doubt anyone whose not an anesthesiologist would even bother to apply after viewing their website. I actually appreciate their attitude in a way. Saves me from wasting my time.

 

[frodo833]

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe its a new policy. Maybe the only way a physiatrist gets in is by being from Jeff. All I can say is I doubt anyone whose not an anesthesiologist would even bother to apply after viewing their website. I actually appreciate their attitude in a way. Saves me from wasting my time.

They have taken nonanes fellows within recent memory from Penn and a DC program, though like most programs there is an in house bias (as you have so astutely pointed out).

 

[olafa]

They have taken nonanes fellows within recent memory from Penn and a DC program, though like most programs there is an in house bias (as you have so astutely pointed out).

There are more than a couple programs with this on their website. I think alot of programs don't bother to update their website either... this looks bad for many reasons, but in this case for them not being up to date they are maybe inadvertently turning away alot of potential applicants. Which probably doesn't effect them since there are plenty of people applying. Probably don't even know its on the website.

 

[mille125]

Self Assessment Exams
it's a test PM&R residents take yearly to assess their knowledge of the specialty. I think anesthesia residents take something similar but must call it something else.

It is called that AKT series (AKT-1,AKT-6,AKT-12,AKT-24). It stands for anesthesia knowledge test and the number after it reflects the month of training that the test is administered. My understanding is that it is only used in house. Some programs dont use it at all or only use parts of it. At my program we only took the AKT-1 which as you can imagine has no applications.

 

[Mister Mxyzptlk]

I was wondering. Is this a way to weed out physiatrists in favor of anesthesia applicants? This is the only incentive I can think of that makes sense. I wish they would just say so on their website..save me the trouble of applying. Has anyone else experienced something like this before?

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by sheer stupidity.