Sae

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

normalforce

Full Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
440
Reaction score
15
Any thoughts on the 2008 SAE.

I thought overall, it was easier than last year, but maybe thats b/c I "theoretically know more". Lots of P&O which I didn't know.
Lots of damn research and medicolegal/work comp stuff that we never learn.

The other stuff, clinically oriented TBI, spine, sports, peds, wasnt too bad. Not much stroke stuff.

Anyway, what did you think.

NF
 
The few drugs they asked about were straight forward, The SCI was straight forward, havent had EMG yet so was clueless. You are right not much on stroke. A few peds questions were straight forward. A few random innervation type questions. But the O&P is tough! Its biomechanics, and its just not taught in most programs to the extent that it is tested on? Anyway- it wasnt a bad exam-
 
it was definitely not as bad as a step 1-3 exam...

either way, i'm glad we took it...showed me how much i don't know.

when do we usually find out the scores??
 
I got lucky--just finished a rotation on occupational medicine/P&O. Did anyone else notice there was a question where the answers had numbers without units??
 
I got lucky--just finished a rotation on occupational medicine/P&O. Did anyone else notice there was a question where the answers had numbers without units??
I noticed that as well. It appears to me that units had to be METs. However, that question should not be counted since it was a clear typo. The harder questions are always those public policy and medicolegal topics. I noticed more questions on modalities than previous years. Altogether, not bad at all. I am more nervous about the boards.
 
definitely hit the occ med fairly heavy. I thought there was a fair number of EMG questions, but quite a few could be answered just by anatomy knowledge. I've definitely got to go back and re-learn things i knew a year ago (i.e., hypernatremia in TBI, stroke recovery stages). Overall, not a terrible test.
 
Where did all the pregnant women come from? I mean really, like 3 or 4 questions with pregnant women. And the one with the answer stem screwed up - almost put me on the floor :laugh:

And who reads the AMA guides? Is it prescribed reading for you guys/gals?
 
I agree with you folks. Occ med and medicolegal stuff was driving me crazy after awhile. I felt like there was a lot of rheumatology too.. ugh. Fair amoutn of O&P and modalities that I need to read up on. Most of the TBI, SCI, stroke, and MSK stuff were reasonable. EMGs weren't too bad for the most part.

DC2md- I can't believe they get you interns to take that exam... haha. I guess you will feel much better after scoring significantly higher as a PGY2.

Time to flip through some board review for kicks...
 
"DC2md- I can't believe they get you interns to take that exam... haha. I guess you will feel much better after scoring significantly higher as a PGY2."

i actually love that we get to take the exam in our pgy1 year. LSU has a categorical program with an integrated medicine/pmr curriculum for our pgy1 & 2 yrs. so by the time this sae rolled around, i had done a couple months of inpt pmr and attended all our pmr lectures...so i guess i wasn't completely clueless.
 
"DC2md- I can't believe they get you interns to take that exam... haha. I guess you will feel much better after scoring significantly higher as a PGY2."

i actually love that we get to take the exam in our pgy1 year. LSU has a categorical program with an integrated medicine/pmr curriculum for our pgy1 & 2 yrs. so by the time this sae rolled around, i had done a couple months of inpt pmr and attended all our pmr lectures...so i guess i wasn't completely clueless.

Yeah, I can imagine that your internship year must a little more fulfilling to get more exposure to rehab this early on (as long as you're getting enough experience in the traditional internship rotations). One of our interns is just finishing up his month of inpatient rehab... then going back to medicine. We like to invite our interns at every chance for outings, dinners, etc. because we don't see them on a regular basis for the majority of the year.


As a side note, I thought the SAE was much more stimulating and enjoyable than taking any of my previous Step 1-3 exams. It IS nice to be tested on what I will be doing for the rest of my life.
 
SAE = SELF-Assessment Exam. It was named such, as opposed to an In-Service exam, explicitly because it was designed as a test for RESIDENTS to use to guide them in their future preparation for Boards. I may be wrong here, but I believe programs are expressly prohibited from using SAE results in their decision-making about resident advancement. Any program directors who follow this board may want to chime in, as I can not find that policy explicitly stated on the AAPM&R website.
 
Now THAT's interesting. SAE = SELF-Assessment Exam. It was named such, as opposed to an In-Service exam, explicitly because it was designed as a test for RESIDENTS to use to guide them in their future preparation for Boards. I may be wrong here, but I believe programs are expressly prohibited from using SAE results in their decision-making about resident advancement. Any program directors who follow this board may want to chime in, as I can not find that policy explicitly stated on the AAPM&R website.


what about the fellowships that ask for SAE scores??? That seems strange too.
 
SAE-R = Self assessment. My PD would not release my SAE scores to any of the fellowships I applied to for precisely this reason - I still got a great fellowship. My PD had me email the chair of the SAE subcommittee Dr. Webster - about the issue of fellowships wanting SAE scores.

Here is his response:

"This is a somewhat difficult and frustrating situation. I am disturbed that fellowship directors are requesting this information. The SAER is not an inservice examination. It is a self-assessement exam and results of the SAER are designed to help residents individualize their learning / study activities and prepare for PM&R Board Certification. The results are confidential, so results should not be shared by program directors to other individuals...The AAPM&R and SAER committee will be addressing this issue on a more global basis with program and fellowship directors."


FYI:
Joseph B. Webster, MD, Chair, Professionalism, Practice-Based Learning, and Research
Venu Akuthota, MD, Musculoskeletal Rehabilitation and Pain Rehabilitation
John E. Begovich, DO, Physiatric Therapeutics and Alternative Medicine
Michelle S. Gittler, MD, Prosthetics, Orthotics, and Assistive Devices
Brian M. Kelly, DO, Neuromuscular Disorders
Thomas S. Kiser, MD, MPH, Brain Disorders
Theresa J. Lie-Nemeth, MD, Medical Rehabilitation
Virginia S. Nelson, MD, Pediatric Rehabilitation
Atul T. Patel, MD, Electrodiagnosis
Amy C. Phelan, MD, DVM, General Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Topics
Heidi Prather, DO, Industrial Rehabilitation and Systems-Based Practice
Jeffrey Rosenbluth, MD, Spinal Cord Disorders
Vivian C. Shih, MD, Joint and Connective Tissue Disorders
 
Where did all the pregnant women come from? I mean really, like 3 or 4 questions with pregnant women. And the one with the answer stem screwed up - almost put me on the floor :laugh:

And who reads the AMA guides? Is it prescribed reading for you guys/gals?


Most states have adopted the AMA guides for use in the rating of disability from industrial injuries.

So if you plan on doing any MSK in the Occ Med setting, you'll be using them.

It just puzzles me why they test on stuff that Physiatrists must know, eventually, but is not included in residency training, and then not change the residency training requirements.
 
what about the fellowships that ask for SAE scores??? That seems strange too.
None of the fellowships that I applied to asked for my SAE scores. I applied to only PM&R sports & spine fellowships. From what I recall, there was only 1 program that actually asked for my SAE scores. That was from an ACGME accredited program. The SAE is really more for yourself so that you will pass the boards.
 
Any thoughts on results of the SAE exam?
 
Altogether I am extremely happy with my percentile score. Beginning and end, it was a very fair exam. I really feel that Cuccurulo is an awesome book and I will continue reading over and over for the boards. The only part of that exam I felt that really sucked was the professionalism questions. You can't study for that. I was especially impressed that one question dealt with one research article on the usedulness of transforaminals for lumbar epidurals.
 
SAE-R = Self assessment. My PD would not release my SAE scores to any of the fellowships I applied to for precisely this reason - I still got a great fellowship. My PD had me email the chair of the SAE subcommittee Dr. Webster - about the issue of fellowships wanting SAE scores.

Here is his response:

"This is a somewhat difficult and frustrating situation. I am disturbed that fellowship directors are requesting this information. The SAER is not an inservice examination. It is a self-assessement exam and results of the SAER are designed to help residents individualize their learning / study activities and prepare for PM&R Board Certification. The results are confidential, so results should not be shared by program directors to other individuals...The AAPM&R and SAER committee will be addressing this issue on a more global basis with program and fellowship directors."


FYI:
Joseph B. Webster, MD, Chair, Professionalism, Practice-Based Learning, and Research
Venu Akuthota, MD, Musculoskeletal Rehabilitation and Pain Rehabilitation
John E. Begovich, DO, Physiatric Therapeutics and Alternative Medicine
Michelle S. Gittler, MD, Prosthetics, Orthotics, and Assistive Devices
Brian M. Kelly, DO, Neuromuscular Disorders
Thomas S. Kiser, MD, MPH, Brain Disorders
Theresa J. Lie-Nemeth, MD, Medical Rehabilitation
Virginia S. Nelson, MD, Pediatric Rehabilitation
Atul T. Patel, MD, Electrodiagnosis
Amy C. Phelan, MD, DVM, General Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Topics
Heidi Prather, DO, Industrial Rehabilitation and Systems-Based Practice
Jeffrey Rosenbluth, MD, Spinal Cord Disorders
Vivian C. Shih, MD, Joint and Connective Tissue Disorders

I have always had ambivalent feelings regarding the SAE. The questions are not necessarily representative of board questions, and some of the answers are wrong. I have actually seen SAE questions derived from MY OWN ARTICLES that were written so poorly that I struggled to know which choice was best-->No joke, this has happened twice!. (Um, I guess I should clarify that the questions were written poorly, not my articles. LOL)

Thus, it strikes me as adding insult to injury to hear that Fellowship directors may ask for SAE scores. There should be sanctions for that!

Let's stick with the tests that count-->the Boards, and use the SAEs for the purposes they were designed for...self assessment.
 
when did the results come out???
For our program, the results came yesterday. We took the exam on a Friday. By sometime this week, all the scores should be back for every program.
 
Top