Saint Louis University (SLU) vs Creighton (Phoenix)

[intrepidcoffee]

Background: I don't have a specific specialty in mind at this current moment but potentially looking into IM, Ophthal, ENT.

SLU

Pros

• Cheaper COL than Phoenix and slightly cheaper tuition than Creighton (roughly $5,000/yr cheaper)
• True P/F with no internal rankings pre-clinical.
• Lectures aren't mandatory, all recorded.
• Has a home ophthalmology program (albeit not a top tier program), a specialty that I'm potentially interested in.
• WashU is next door which means potential research opportunities.
• Right next to SLU undergrad campus (don't know if this is a pro or a con tbh)
• Free things to do in St. Louis i.e Zoo, Art Museum, Forest Park, big beer scene and conveniently located next to big super markets, IKEA, etc.
• Emphasis on mental wellness and independent learning.
• They just built a brand new hospital which recently opened.
• I'm from CA and apparently a lot of CA students come here and match back to CA which I see as a plus as I see myself returning to CA in the future and can possibly relate to more students who also come from CA.
• A college friend of mine is going to attend this school this fall.
• Recently changed to 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum.

Cons

• Hot humid summers but not as hot as Phoenix.
• Further from home (5 hour flight)
• Higher crime rate at St. Louis (although current students say crime has not been an issue as long as you aren't being irresponsible)
• Not much emphasis on research/research funding (hope to do a lot of research)
• Previous history of accreditation issues (resolved in 2018ish)
• Traditional 2-year pre-clinical year rather than 1.5/18 month preclinicals. Edit: SLU has recently changed to a 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum.

Creighton (PHOENIX CAMPUS):
Pros

• Brand new campus and facilities in Phoenix.
• More opportunities to lead/start organizations because it's so new, which could look good for residency apps (also a con potentially - see cons)
• Closer to home (~1.5 hours away by flight)
• Non-mandatory lecture, recorded lectures
• During my info session during interview day, I was told that all the resources and opportunities will be available to us as the first class in Phoenix because there are no other students (i.e undergrads or M2s) competing for them.
• The students during the student Q+A were more enthusiastic and down-to-earth (highly subjective and variable though)
• Slightly higher PD ranking than SLU.
• I hear Phoenix is a livelier, safer, and more "interesting" city than St. Louis, with close proximity to uptown and downtown AZ and outdoorsy activities like hiking and a better sports scene.

Cons

• Much hotter and for longer in Phoenix compared to St. Louis
• Because the campus is new, there may be less structure and guidance available compared to an established institution like SLU or Creighton's main Nebraska campus.
• No M2s on campus yet. Only M3s and M4s. My class will be the first M1 and M2 class at Phoenix.
• Grading is Honors/pass/fail rather than true P/F
• Not really sure which specialties have a home program with the Phoenix campus.
• I think Creighton has an even smaller emphasis on research than SLU.
• Don't have any friends/people I know coming to this school.

Summary: Both institutions are quite similar in that they are both Jesuit institutions, mid-tier, not heavily research focused, OOS for me, similarly priced in tuition, and similar class sizes. Unfortunately nobody really knows about the Creighton Phoenix campus but I'm sure it will have similar organizations, vibes, and curriculum as the Nebraska campus.

In summary, Creighton - Phoenix is the closer and newer school which should give me ample opportunities to grow with the program and lead organizations. SLU is the more established school with a better support network and better pre-clinical grading scheme to reduce stress. Regardless, I am looking for a school that'll prepare me for STEP 1, provide more research opportunities so I can keep my options open for more competitive specialties such as ENT or Ophthalmology, and has a chill environment/student body.

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[Putkernerinthehall]

Nice analysis. You might want to look at the pre-clinical curriculum at each school and see if that sways you any. SLU has a full traditional 2-year pre-clinical phase. Also, maybe take a look at the match lists and Step 2 CK scores. I only saw the 2019 match list on SLU's website. It might just come down to where you would rather live and how often you wish to return home. Frankly, neither are 'A' list locations (quality of life/ culture, etc.) to me but both offer solid medical school educations. Good luck!

 

[mcatstudent1]

So many of the things you are thinking about do not matter in reality. I would recommend SLU for you. Creighton Phoenix does not have a track record right now as a school. When applying for residencies esp to match back to Cali you want to have a know reputation. Honors/pass/fail will leave you stressed to always get the honors-it’s helps add credibility and granularity because they are new. While not a research powerhouse, SLU hasn’t enough to get your foot in the door and most specialties and wash U is only a stone throw away. Weather in Midwest is cold!!! And summers hot and humid, this will take some getting used to but Cali people often go to Med school in Midwest. Only you can decide how important this is. This is not undergrad clubs and stuff matter little-AOA class rank Steps research and clinical grades matter. If I were you I would choose SLU but I also grew up with snow 🙂

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I too, would choose SLU over Creighton and I'm CA.

 

[messy-morning]

The Creighton Phoenix campus is new to M1/M2, but M3 and M4 have been doing rotations and electives there for over 10 years. The two Creighton campuses also share the same overarching accreditation (to my knowledge). Would that make it less of a "new" school in the eyes of residency directors?

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I'm no expert, but I think you make a strong point. It's probably not viewed as much of a new school as a complete new start would be. Two degrees F and snow in St. Louis right now, but I'd still go with SLU 😉

 

[mcatstudent1]

It’s still considered a new school to PDs for residency and Has it’s own accreditation. It’s less of a risk to the student because they have a long clinical track record so hopefully they are familiar with Med students and know how to teach. Still SLU wins until they have 4-5 years of data on math lists...

 

[m1redsox]

I would also say SLU because of the research. I don’t think the new Creighton-Phoenix campus will have the same opportunities yet, and being at a research institution has made things SO easy for me—which will be important with P/F step. ECs will be a bigger deal.

Also P/F classes are awesome.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I would also say SLU because of the research. I don’t think the new Creighton-Phoenix campus will have the same opportunities yet, and being at a research institution has made things SO easy for me—which will be important with P/F step. ECs will be a bigger deal.

Also P/F classes are awesome.

What's your feeling about P/F for all four years ? I know SLU is P/F for Y1-2. Is P/F all four years just heaven on earth or does it make it hard to distinguish yourself during clerkships ?

 

[m1redsox]

What's your feeling about P/F for all four years ? I know SLU is P/F for Y1-2. Is P/F all four years just heaven on earth or does it make it hard to distinguish yourself during clerkships ?

From a student stress perspective, P/F is awesome. I think the only people who might like grades are the med students who literally ace all of medical school, which obviously isn't very common. There aren't very many schools that do P/F clinicals, so that's probably not super relevant, but I would imagine that those students have a lot more time to focus on specialties that genuinely interest them rather than kissing the butt of some clinician whose job looks miserable to you. Take my advice with a grain of salt though because I'm still a year away from starting clinical rotations.

 

[sadie22590]

A comment earlier mentioned about the difficulty of matching from the new Phoenix Creighton branch to California. I was researching on this earlier when deciding between Omaha and Phoenix campus and M3s and M4s who rotated at Phoenix matched West Coast residencies very often! Both branches are under the same accreditation and the preclinical education will most likely be the same across most medical schools. As for clinical years there are tons of great sites like Barrow Neurological Institute which is the top in the nation.
As for research, my interviewer was a Phoenix faculty and when I asked her about the research opportunities she told me that there’s too many options to the point that a lot of times open spots remain empty because there was just not enough med students to fill the spots. I don’t have any worries about finding research opportunities at the Phoenix branch.
As for other involvement opportunities, there will definitely gaps so if you’re someone who likes to take initiatives and get leadership on your resume this may be nice.