Salaries in New York. What do you think ?

[Wilhem]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14760&stc=1&d=1273407562

What do you think ? 😕

I forgot to mention. The data is from Indeed.com, and the search was based on Search Job Titles Only.
For Psychologists I typed : Licensed Psychologist. On the pic it appears only psychologist, i had to cut due to gif format allowed.

Times are changing fast !

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[deleted176373]

I think that this doesn't adequately capture what salaries are really like in NY, NY state has a lot of salary diversity... upstate salaries are greatly different than NYC salaries. I wouldn't want to make too much more of that without knowing more specifically the variance in the salaries and where we are talking about more specifically.

I wouldn't live in NY again, for a number of reasons, tax burden being one of my number one reasons to avoid the state.

NYS average tax burden 12.9%
US Average 10.6%
Texas 9.4%

More telling is a cost of living comparison... Suppose I was making $100,000 in San Antonio, TX, in NYC, NY I would need to make $218,000!!! That's more than double!

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=100000&city1=54865000&city2=53651000

Seriously, enough to make me run away from New York City, where as Ithica, NY is only 26% more expensive than San Antonio, TX. Which is shows how much location can affect what you need to make in New York.

I'm thinking I'll stick with Texas (even if Alaska is much lower at 6.6% tax burden) when I retire.

Mark

PS - FWIW, a psychologist in San Antonio will make a median base salary of $76k and a psychologist on Long Island, near the city in a good neighborhood will make a median base salary of $94k.

$76k per year in 78238 = $170k in 11570
$94k per year in 11570 = $42k in 78238

See what I mean!!!

 

[FadedC]

I don't think it's quite accurate to divide your salary by the cost of living to see how well off you will be, but it's definitely true that the cost of living is quite a bit higher in NYC, and that this is the reason why salaries are higher too. Most of the cost of living increase in going to be in the form of dramatically higher rents or real estate prices. Though of course steadily increasing real estate prices can be a good thing if your buying (though as the recent housing market shows, nothing is ever completely safe. NYC has been bouncing back from that though).

There is no question that I could have bought a mansion in some rural part of Iowa for the price of my one bedroom apartment in Manhattan. There's also no question that for me my qualitiy of life is much better in the one bedroom then it would be in the Iowa mansion. But that's something that varies greatly between people.

 

[deleted176373]

I don't think it's quite accurate to divide your salary by the cost of living to see how well off you will be, but it's definitely true that the cost of living is quite a bit higher in NYC, and that this is the reason why salaries are higher too. Most of the cost of living increase in going to be in the form of dramatically higher rents or real estate prices. Though of course steadily increasing real estate prices can be a good thing if your buying (though as the recent housing market shows, nothing is ever completely safe. NYC has been bouncing back from that though).

There is no question that I could have bought a mansion in some rural part of Iowa for the price of my one bedroom apartment in Manhattan. There's also no question that for me my qualitiy of life is much better in the one bedroom then it would be in the Iowa mansion. But that's something that varies greatly between people.

The salary comparisons where from a cost of living comparison calculator, also personally having lived in both areas, I can attest to dramatic differences in cost of living, but the biggest as you note is rent/mortgage costs. Still the money spent on housing takes away from money spent elsewhere. In 2003, I was able to buy a house on an acre of land in San Antonio for $85,000... I couldn't even buy a house in 11570 for less than $400,000k period. Gas taxes are double in NY compared to TX. Cigarette taxes (just a commodity to use as a reference) was something like 4 times higher in NY.

Personally, while you might prefer a 1 bedroom apt, it's impossible to compare it apples to apples, this I agree. You probably would miss the things you have in the city that simply don't exist in the sticks, but you pay for it. I am sure that you'd be happier if you could have the buying power afforded you in Iowa in New York. While the Iowa comparison is interesting, take comparing Houston or Austin, TX with New York City, NY... a more "fair" comparison than Iowa. I think you'd have a harder time making the same argument.

Mark

 

[FadedC]

Well for myself personally I still wouldn't give up what I have for a larger place somewhere like Austin. But again that's just me. I feel the money I spend on real estate is an extremely solid investment, and while I might get more for the same price elsewhere, I trust Manhattan real estate to steadily increase in value far more then I trust Austin real estate. There's also the no driving lifestyle in NYC itself which not only saves you a lot on car costs but tends to keep you in pretty good shape. This is not something you can really find anywhere else.

But again, this is just me and we are clearly very different people. Getting back to the original point, you mention that the data is flawed by covering the state as a whole which I'm sure is quite true. I suspect salaries in NYC are significantly higher then listed, while those outside are significantly lower.

The salary comparisons where from a cost of living comparison calculator, also personally having lived in both areas, I can attest to dramatic differences in cost of living, but the biggest as you note is rent/mortgage costs. Still the money spent on housing takes away from money spent elsewhere. In 2003, I was able to buy a house on an acre of land in San Antonio for $85,000... I couldn't even buy a house in 11570 for less than $400,000k period. Gas taxes are double in NY compared to TX. Cigarette taxes (just a commodity to use as a reference) was something like 4 times higher in NY.

Personally, while you might prefer a 1 bedroom apt, it's impossible to compare it apples to apples, this I agree. You probably would miss the things you have in the city that simply don't exist in the sticks, but you pay for it. I am sure that you'd be happier if you could have the buying power afforded you in Iowa in New York. While the Iowa comparison is interesting, take comparing Houston or Austin, TX with New York City, NY... a more "fair" comparison than Iowa. I think you'd have a harder time making the same argument.

Mark

 

[Ollie123]

Agree with the above.
Plus I'll reiterate my usual point that there is often a lot of "mystery" in these salary surveys. I'm never sure if they represent "What your base salary is at what you consider your main job" or actual "annual income". These numbers can differ by tens of thousands of dollars, and I suspect this is more true for psychologists than for the other jobs mentioned.

Though I agree that, in general, I find it disappointing the numbers are that similar.

Oh, and as a Buffalo native, I have to second the wide variance in cost of living across NY state. A friend of mine had a two-bedroom apartment with hardwood floors and a fireplace in a great part of Buffalo for $400 a month. That was admittedly a good deal, but try finding anything even approaching on that in NYC😉

 

[deleted176373]

But again, this is just me and we are clearly very different people.

True... I grew up in NYC and the metro area, there are somethings I love about it... don't get me wrong. I just like Texas better and that's all personal preference and has nothing really to do with the discussion other than my admitting my bias for Texas when discussing cost of living.

NYC is a unique and vibrant place to live, no doubt about that!

As far as home values: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/570-Grand-St-APT-H1307-New-York-NY-10002/2139215945_zpid/

NYC has been hit as hard as anywhere. Near 20% losses in value from 2007-2008 values.

Mark

 

[citypsych]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14760&stc=1&d=1273407562

The numbers for LMHC and LMFT are too high, no?

Well, for some of us living in Texas really isn't an option. Way too hot.

 

[FadedC]

NYC real estate has definitely taken a hit, but so has everywhere else and I think NYC is a lot closer to a full recovery. Prices may not have fully recovered, but there is a lot of buying going on and the supply is steadily going down. But my trust in the value of NYC real estate is more of a general thing, it doesn't mean it won't go down during an economic crisis, but I generally trust it to perform better then anywhere else. This has historically been the case for the last several decades, but of course we can't fully predict what the future will bring.

Anyway I do feel like we are going way off topic to anything too psychology related by this point.

True... I grew up in NYC and the metro area, there are somethings I love about it... don't get me wrong. I just like Texas better and that's all personal preference and has nothing really to do with the discussion other than my admitting my bias for Texas when discussing cost of living.

NYC is a unique and vibrant place to live, no doubt about that!

As far as home values: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/570-Grand-St-APT-H1307-New-York-NY-10002/2139215945_zpid/

NYC has been hit as hard as anywhere. Near 20% losses in value from 2007-2008 values.

Mark

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

NYC is the exception and not the rule. I know providers who make $150k+/yr in private practice in NYC, but their overhead costs are ridiculous. Prior to going to graduate school I considered a consulting position in mid-town, and it amazed me how fast the "bump" in salary disappeared. $135k was equivilant to around $65k where I was living (circa 2003). I'm not sure if it is better or worse now, but unless you want to rent for the rest of your life, anything under $150k-$175k really isn't much if you plan on living anywhere decent in NYC.

The bottom line is to do a lot of research before jumping into the profession because you don't want to be scraping by for the next 30 years. Many people do fine, some do great, and some people struggle. The other side of the coin is making $75k in an inexpensive area, living in a $150k house, and not paying 8%+ in local tax and even more for city tax.

 

[Psy01]

The numbers for LMHC and LMFT are too high, no?

Definitely too high from what I've seen.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US...h_Counselor_(LMHC)/Salary/by_Years_Experience
http://www.payscale.com/research/US...ental_Health_Counselor_(LMHC)/Salary/by_State

 

[PsychGraduate]

The salary comparisons where from a cost of living comparison calculator, also personally having lived in both areas, I can attest to dramatic differences in cost of living, but the biggest as you note is rent/mortgage costs. Still the money spent on housing takes away from money spent elsewhere. In 2003, I was able to buy a house on an acre of land in San Antonio for $85,000... I couldn't even buy a house in 11570 for less than $400,000k period. Gas taxes are double in NY compared to TX. Cigarette taxes (just a commodity to use as a reference) was something like 4 times higher in NY.

Personally, while you might prefer a 1 bedroom apt, it's impossible to compare it apples to apples, this I agree. You probably would miss the things you have in the city that simply don't exist in the sticks, but you pay for it. I am sure that you'd be happier if you could have the buying power afforded you in Iowa in New York. While the Iowa comparison is interesting, take comparing Houston or Austin, TX with New York City, NY... a more "fair" comparison than Iowa. I think you'd have a harder time making the same argument.

Mark

As someone who lived in NY, LI and NYC prior to coming to CA I can attest to the enormous cost of living and the higher salaries do not necessarily compensate, let alone the lower ones. NY does have a lot to offer but you really need to make serious $$$.

 

[Mulsum]

Isn't everyone in this thread entirely overlooking living on the outskirts of Manhattan, but working there? Is Yonkers or Brooklyn really that expensive, and is the 30min commute really that bad? Seems like a bit Sex and the City-centric of an idea that you NEED to live in NYC to work there.

 

[PsychGraduate]

Isn't everyone in this thread entirely overlooking living on the outskirts of Manhattan, but working there? Is Yonkers or Brooklyn really that expensive, and is the 30min commute really that bad? Seems like a bit Sex and the City-centric of an idea that you NEED to live in NYC to work there. My professor (from the North East) has this idea and she is in massive debt.

Still quite expensive in Yonkers and Brooklyn too. It all depends upon what lifestyle you want and how safe you want your neighborhood. There are nice areas in both Yonkers and Brooklyn, but still pricey.

 

[FadedC]

A more common strategy among professionals is to live in the suburbs of New Jersey and commute to Manhattan. It lets them have a cheap enough cost of living and a safe enough environment to raise a family while still getting a Manhattan salary. The primary downside is the commute time of an hour or more. But I don't really know what commute times people are looking at elsewhere.

As I said above though, if you can actually afford to buy a place in Manhattan then the high cost of living works in your favor in the long run. Obviously that's not an option for the vast majority of starting psychologists, but it is for some.

 

[psychmama]

A more common strategy among professionals is to live in the suburbs of New Jersey and commute to Manhattan. It lets them have a cheap enough cost of living and a safe enough environment to raise a family while still getting a Manhattan salary. The primary downside is the commute time of an hour or more.

As someone who's been commuting from the NJ suburbs for years, it is doable but can be a real pain. Today, for example, it took me 2.5 hrs to commute from my home to Bronx. And I only live 12 miles west of NYC!!

 

[FadedC]

As someone who's been commuting from the NJ suburbs for years, it is doable but can be a real pain. Today, for example, it took me 2.5 hrs to commute from my home to Bronx. And I only live 12 miles west of NYC!!

I know people who live so far our in Jersey they have to do two and a half or more hours of commuting every day (each way of course). Most of us think that's insane, but I suppose from a financial perspective, the cheap rent out there combined with a Manhattan salary is a pretty good deal. I couldn't handle it though.

Most of the Jersey commuters I know live closer to the city and can usually make it within an hour or so. But you never know how traffic will be and I'm sure they have all had a 2.5 hour commute from time to time.

 

[BSWdavid]

But honestly, who wants to live in New Jersey?

 

[teo3099]

.

 

[psychmama]

But honestly, who wants to live in New Jersey?

Well I do, but it takes a special sort to appreciate it here...at least you didn't call it "Jersey" that always gets to me.😉

 

[deleted176373]

Well I do, but it takes a special sort to appreciate it here...at least you didn't call it "Jersey" that always gets to me.😉

I picture you fist pumping as you wrote that.

Mark

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I fist-pumped while reading it.

Certain parts of NJ are gorgeous, just don't go to Camden or Jersey City. Living "outside" of NYC isn't that much less expensive, unless you live far far away and/or in an unsafe neighborhood. Friends live in Hoboken, which has some great neighborhoods, though considering the commute in with the PATH, it isn't that much less expensive when you factor in the commute time. With that being said, if I had to recommend a place outside of NYC (and the boroughs), it'd be Hoboken.

 

[FadedC]

Hoboken is probably about as expensive as you can get while still living in Jersey. It's true that if you put a gun to my head and forced me to leave NYC for NJ, that is where I'd pick to live. But it's definitely not where people go when they decide to move to Jersey to save money.

I fist-pumped while reading it.

Certain parts of NJ are gorgeous, just don't go to Camden or Jersey City. Living "outside" of NYC isn't that much less expensive, unless you live far far away and/or in an unsafe neighborhood. Friends live in Hoboken, which has some great neighborhoods, though considering the commute in with the PATH, it isn't that much less expensive when you factor in the commute time. With that being said, if I had to recommend a place outside of NYC (and the boroughs), it'd be Hoboken.

 

[psychmama]

I picture you fist pumping as you wrote that.

Mark

Absolutely...while cruising down the Turnpike in my mustang convertible, listening to Springsteen and Bon Jovi with my "big hair" flying!

 

[nicu4leo]

Aside from cost of living and the whole debate over what constitutes quality of life.. One of the reasons I will consider moving back to NYC after school is to be a part of the clinical community that exists there. No other city has the diversity of institutes and access to excellent post graduate programs...

 

[deleted176373]

Aside from cost of living and the whole debate over what constitutes quality of life.. One of the reasons I will consider moving back to NYC after school is to be a part of the clinical community that exists there. No other city has the diversity of institutes and access to excellent post graduate programs...

Really, so... Washington DC (home of the NIH), San Francisco, and a handful of other major cities simply can't compete? I think that the idea that NYC has the most diversity is a little short sighted. Granted, there are excellent opportunities in NYC, but I don't think it stands alone in this respect.

Mark

 

[FadedC]

Well NYC certainly has the reputation for being the place where you can find the last major bastions of any number of old school therapies that have otherwise fallen out of popular use. Assuming this reputation is correct then in that sense you could say that there is a lot of diversity here that you might not find in other places. Being a big fan of empirically suported therapy I don't personally consider that to be as much of a positive thing. But to each their own.

Really, so... Washington DC (home of the NIH), San Francisco, and a handful of other major cities simply can't compete? I think that the idea that NYC has the most diversity is a little short sighted. Granted, there are excellent opportunities in NYC, but I don't think it stands alone in this respect.

Mark