I hear that salaries in plastic surgery vary widely. Can someone point me in the right direction to develop a more specific understanding of the options available upon finishing training for PS?
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Salary for plastic surgery?
Started by zippitydoodoc
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You can go here for an idea:
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm
I can tell you my father a PRS who also did a hand fellowship made 450K a year from kaiser before taxes. Now that he has retired he still collects half his salary, that's the kaiser retirement plan.
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm
I can tell you my father a PRS who also did a hand fellowship made 450K a year from kaiser before taxes. Now that he has retired he still collects half his salary, that's the kaiser retirement plan.
I personally stay away from any salary survey that has a max -- the tendency is to get excited about that column, and the truth of the matter is it isn't realistic for someone starting out in this day and age. Makes the data misleading. Also be wary of survey data -- low earners may be uncomfortable responding, resulting in an upward skew. (only those proud of their incomes may respond -- at least it always worked that way in law).
I agree with the initial poster -- if you are inquiring on pre-allo about which fields will let you work closer to a 40 hour work week "for the sake of family/marriage", you have no business contemplating any surgical field, in which you will basically double those hours. Salaries are sure to change in a decade anyhow, so no reason to get excited about them yet. And you likely don't even know if you'll like a particular specialty, so what such a person earns is moot (you generally don't want to pick a field based on what it earns, you pick based on what you like to do -- if you hate it, and it involves 70+ hours/week (as surgery does), most of the waking hours of your life, no amount of money will make it worth it.).
Mortgage broker after the subprime mess? Gluck.
Anyway, the answer to the OP's question is ALOT.
N
njbmd
Moving to the Plastics Forum as the OPs question pertained to Plastic Surgery salaries.
Upon finishing training for PS, your options are to:
1. Do a fellowship. Adv: more training, more subspecialization, etc. Disadv: another year of edumacation, another year of resident pay.
2. Get an academic job: Adv: less hassle about marketing/hiring/coding/tons of other private practice headaches, you know what you will get paid, opportunities for teaching/research. Disadv: you know what you will get paid (read: prob less than private practice).
3. Get into a salaried position, like Kaiser. Adv: same as academic jobs, maybe higher pay. Disadv: may pay less than some successful non-salaried private practice jobs.
4. Join a group. Adv: can gain expertise about the biz of medicine, usu can have a reasonable salary while getting started in the first few years while you grow your practice. Disadv: may be a few years before you can be a partner, can't completely "run the show".
5. Set up your own shop. Adv: you the man: you hire the staff, you design the office, you "eat what you kill". Disadv: you probably won't be killing much for a number of months/years, you probably have little/no experience in the business of medicine.
Honestly, if you have the intellect and determination to get into med school and get into PS, but are simply looking for a great lifestyle and good working hours on the way to an early retirement, DO NOT GET INTO MEDICINE. You will be sorely disappointed with your decision for a few reasons. One, you have "wasted" your golden years of your twenties and early thirties while your college friends of similar skill-set are VP's in advertising firms and investment houses and drive Porsches and Ferraris (I kid you not). Two, time is money: while you slave away in med school losing money, those guys are already saving for retirement and that well-invested money will grow for 10 years. Three, during those years of medical training, your friends in the biz world hone their investing skills. They live and breathe passive money making skills...investing (accumulation without active working). You hone your medical skills, which can make money but don't do it passively (read: you have to work for the money to be made). SO, while a well-run cosmetic PS practice has one of the highest earning potentials in medicine, it pales in comparison to the monster bank that someone in the biz world can make, IF of similar intelligence/determination/etc.
Agree with above. Most important -- the high-end/high-fee cosmetic guys WORK THEIR ASSES OFF!! It is very labor-intensive to build and maintain a high volume cosmetic practice. In addition, it is high overhead, so you have to really work at it just to pay your rent/staff/supplies.
If you want to make lots of money and retire early, go into investment banking or real estate. If you want to be a surgeon, plan on years and years of hard work and lower compensation than your friends who chose other fields.
If you want to make lots of money and retire early, go into investment banking or real estate. If you want to be a surgeon, plan on years and years of hard work and lower compensation than your friends who chose other fields.
As an anesthesiologist, I've worked with many plastic surgeons in my career. What has struck me is the wide variability in the incomes of these individuals more than other fields. I knew one that had a limo and collected race horses. I've known others that had to close offices. The overhead of their offices is very high, and the competition for patients is fierce. In some states you need a certificate of need to build an accredited surgery center/office.
The ones that succeeded seemed to be the ones with business skills and marketing savvy more than anything else. I did not see this phenomena in other fields as much. In anesthesia there are no superstars but I never knew one that couldn't make at least a comfortable living.
The ones that succeeded seemed to be the ones with business skills and marketing savvy more than anything else. I did not see this phenomena in other fields as much. In anesthesia there are no superstars but I never knew one that couldn't make at least a comfortable living.
B
BillyLittle
With all due respect to all of the posters, this has become a moot point. Things are getting ugly, and I feel very sad for you young guys who have devoted all of this time, money, energy to college, medical school, and residency.
When the second Great Depression hits this country, plastic surgeons won't be doing ANY aesthetic surgery. No one will be spending anything - because you are too busy to notice, you don't realize that plans are in place for the Dollar to literally be worthless. That way, we can be told that we have to "merge our currencies" with Mexico and Canada, and submit to some kind of "unified" (read totalitarian police state) North American gov't.
You can see that it has already started, with the Dollar sinking to new lows every day, inflation skyrocketing with food/gas prices going up (although we'll be told that the higher prices have nothing to do with Fed inflation, but are the result of "us" being "xenophobic" and not letting illegal immigrants take over), and the real estate market getting worse by the week.
The "powers that be" are trying like hell to delay the downfall (hence the recent Fed rate slash), at least until November 2008, so that they can get Hillary, Romney, or Giuliani in. If the proverbial **** hits the fan before that time, they fear that will lead to Ron Paul getting elected. If he is elected, that will kill their plans for WW3, a second Great Depression, one world gov't, etc.
If you are trying to become a plastic surgeon, and you want to provide a good future for your family, you're literally wasting your time if any of the "mainstream" candidates get elected. If you're lucky enough to be able to practice medicine in the totalitarian system, you'll be spending your days draining pus and doing digital amps, rather than doing breast augs, reductions, lipo, facelifts, etc. At that time, you'd be happy doing those kinds of cases, because half of the guys you trained with won't even be working.
Ron Paul is the only one with a plan to bring us into the inevitable (INEVITABLE) transition period with any sanity. We're all so busy studying the anatomy of the lower eyelid and the biomechanics of the hand, that we neglect what is going on around us. We have lived with such prosperity for so long that we have forgotten that tyranny is the usual human condition. We need to realize that it is not "security" that has made us prosperous, but that security is based on prosperity, and that the ingenuity, labor, and sacrifice that comes secondary to liberty and truly free markets is what has made our nation prosperous. Please wake up and understand what is going on, before it is too late.
Thank you for your time AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
When the second Great Depression hits this country, plastic surgeons won't be doing ANY aesthetic surgery. No one will be spending anything - because you are too busy to notice, you don't realize that plans are in place for the Dollar to literally be worthless. That way, we can be told that we have to "merge our currencies" with Mexico and Canada, and submit to some kind of "unified" (read totalitarian police state) North American gov't.
You can see that it has already started, with the Dollar sinking to new lows every day, inflation skyrocketing with food/gas prices going up (although we'll be told that the higher prices have nothing to do with Fed inflation, but are the result of "us" being "xenophobic" and not letting illegal immigrants take over), and the real estate market getting worse by the week.
The "powers that be" are trying like hell to delay the downfall (hence the recent Fed rate slash), at least until November 2008, so that they can get Hillary, Romney, or Giuliani in. If the proverbial **** hits the fan before that time, they fear that will lead to Ron Paul getting elected. If he is elected, that will kill their plans for WW3, a second Great Depression, one world gov't, etc.
If you are trying to become a plastic surgeon, and you want to provide a good future for your family, you're literally wasting your time if any of the "mainstream" candidates get elected. If you're lucky enough to be able to practice medicine in the totalitarian system, you'll be spending your days draining pus and doing digital amps, rather than doing breast augs, reductions, lipo, facelifts, etc. At that time, you'd be happy doing those kinds of cases, because half of the guys you trained with won't even be working.
Ron Paul is the only one with a plan to bring us into the inevitable (INEVITABLE) transition period with any sanity. We're all so busy studying the anatomy of the lower eyelid and the biomechanics of the hand, that we neglect what is going on around us. We have lived with such prosperity for so long that we have forgotten that tyranny is the usual human condition. We need to realize that it is not "security" that has made us prosperous, but that security is based on prosperity, and that the ingenuity, labor, and sacrifice that comes secondary to liberty and truly free markets is what has made our nation prosperous. Please wake up and understand what is going on, before it is too late.
Thank you for your time AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
B
BillyLittle
Medhacker, are you being facetious? How was that "spam" exactly? I think that I gave a pretty detailed assessment of the way that I see things going in the future. It's just my opinion from what I see - can't I express that?
As someone who has been in practice (i.e. the Real World) for a long time, I can tell you that things are going sour pretty darn fast. I have been priveleged to have a number of patients who are very well-connected, and I'm told that war with Iran is going to happen. Do you realize that this will lead to total chaos?
Instead of requesting the deletion of my post, perhaps you should address the points that I raise. I'm sorry to have upset you in that way.
I hope that we all see the writing on the wall before it's too late.
As someone who has been in practice (i.e. the Real World) for a long time, I can tell you that things are going sour pretty darn fast. I have been priveleged to have a number of patients who are very well-connected, and I'm told that war with Iran is going to happen. Do you realize that this will lead to total chaos?
Instead of requesting the deletion of my post, perhaps you should address the points that I raise. I'm sorry to have upset you in that way.
I hope that we all see the writing on the wall before it's too late.
You seem to not really be reading what I wrote. I never said that your predictions are wrong. I named your call for "Ron paul being the only one that can bring us into the transition period with sanity, a cheap spam for Ron paul.
I may even agree with you 100% that your predictions are correct. However, while I may wish to agree or argue with you, this is just not the place. What do you think would happen to the quality of "plastics and reconstructive" advice if we all started discussing how we thing candidate A or candidate B is better to solve our problems?. This is just not the place. SDN has designated places where you can indicate your political preference to your heart's content.
You could have even, started such a comment in the appropriate areas and perhaps made mention of it in this post. In that manner, every one would have decided if we want to go see your comments and passion about Ron Paul in that section of SDN. Since this section of SDN is for the surgical subspecialty PRS, making a post where you think our future problems will be solved by Ron Paul is no other than a cheap spam.
Guest, what do you mean by everything is going to go sour quickly? Are you referring only to plastic surgeons or are you referring to the medical profession in general? Also, I don't see how a war in Iran (I think unlikely) is going to affect physicians drastically. If anything, I think a reformed healthcare system is going to do the most damage.
