Salary in academics?

[jsh1986]

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I understand that regardless of whether academics or private, starting salaries in ophthalmology will be low. But what about several years out in academics? And how is pay determined in academic institutions? Do you get a certain base and then it is "eat what you kill"/RVUs ? Or is your salary what you get, and your RVUs go to the Department?

Caveat to why I ask:
You can find the salary of most academic physicians who practice at public institutions by doing simple google search. For example, I looked up people at UIC and UCSF. http://data.illinimedia.com/salaries/index
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/databases/salaries/university-of-california-san-francisco
(Soapbox: Ironic that in this over-regulated world, with laws upon laws regarding privacy, one of the most intimate things in your life can be freely accessed by anyone online. Horrible).

In any case, the salaries for the Chairs are about what I would expect. Fine. But then I look up some retina and cornea faculty that I've heard of, and the salaries are in the low to mid 100s. Is this really what their take home salary is, or is there another large "billable" component I am missing?

 

[ophthope]

(Soapbox: Ironic that in this over-regulated world, with laws upon laws regarding privacy, one of the most intimate things in your life can be freely accessed by anyone online. Horrible).

I don't know anything about academic salaries. But I don't know if you are aware that the reason those salaries are posted online is because the institution receives public funding. If your salary is paid in part or totally by money from taxes then you forfeit your right to that salary being public. For the same reason you can look up how much your local representive, the president, etc is paid. It keeps the public sector, which is accountable to the public, open to inspection and criticism.

 

[dantt]

I understand that regardless of whether academics or private, starting salaries in ophthalmology will be low. But what about several years out in academics? And how is pay determined in academic institutions? Do you get a certain base and then it is "eat what you kill"/RVUs ? Or is your salary what you get, and your RVUs go to the Department?

Caveat to why I ask:
You can find the salary of most academic physicians who practice at public institutions by doing simple google search. For example, I looked up people at UIC and UCSF. http://data.illinimedia.com/salaries/index
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/databases/salaries/university-of-california-san-francisco
(Soapbox: Ironic that in this over-regulated world, with laws upon laws regarding privacy, one of the most intimate things in your life can be freely accessed by anyone online. Horrible).

In any case, the salaries for the Chairs are about what I would expect. Fine. But then I look up some retina and cornea faculty that I've heard of, and the salaries are in the low to mid 100s. Is this really what their take home salary is, or is there another large "billable" component I am missing?

Often times faculty are allowed to spend a certain % of their time in private practice, varying from a day or 2 a week to 4.

 

[Visionary]

The salary information does not take into account funding from other sources, such as research grants, endowments, not to mention speaker and consultant fees. Typically, academicians will have some salary support from those other sources. Of course, that means that you have to scrounge for those monies to keep your salary steady. If you lose a major grant, you'll potentially lose a big chunk of money. There are benefits to academia, but IMO the red tape and bureaucracy outweigh them.

 

[dantt]

The salary information does not take into account funding from other sources, such as research grants, endowments, not to mention speaker and consultant fees. Typically, academicians will have some salary support from those other sources. Of course, that means that you have to scrounge for those monies to keep your salary steady. If you lose a major grant, you'll potentially lose a big chunk of money. There are benefits to academia, but IMO the red tape and bureaucracy outweigh them.

Academic physicians are less able to rely on speaker and consulting fees than private practice physicians due to stricter institutional guidelines. It's rare these days to find clinical faculty deriving a large portion of their salary from grants.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Clinical faculty are considered draft horses. They are expected to supervise residents and generate revenue. The institution wants its cut from that revenue, which it extracts in multiple ways, including the "Dean's Tax" which is a hefty cut of revenues off the top as well as apportioned charges for staff (whether you want them or not), costs assigned for the institutional coders and billers (whether they are competent or not) as well as typically high per-square-foot rents on institutional office space. If those charges result in pinching attending pay as reimbursements are ratcheted downward, tough luck. They want their money. Some departments have shuttered because what resulted was not enough pay to keep faculty.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

People can report income without specifying the sources. Typically besides a faculty income plan, usually based on productivity, there are monies from grants, money from associated institutions like the VA, speaking fees, legal and industry consultant fees and occasionally, usually for senior professor-level faculty, university endowment support.

 

[Visionary]

Academic physicians are less able to rely on speaker and consulting fees than private practice physicians due to stricter institutional guidelines. It's rare these days to find clinical faculty deriving a large portion of their salary from grants.

Then things have changed a lot in the past 3 years, because my residency and fellowship mentors were paid just as I described.

 

[dantt]

Then things have changed a lot in the past 3 years, because my residency and fellowship mentors were paid just as I described.

It really depends on the institution. Pharm and devices reps have free reign at some while they are banned from others. Some places cap outside time to 5-20% while others have part time faculty working only 1 day / week. While endowments can make up a large percentage of a faculty member's salary, those are usually declared as part of their salary and are rare. (anybody here an endowed chair of anything?)

 

[OjoCinco]

It really depends on the institution. Pharm and devices reps have free reign at some while they are banned from others. Some places cap outside time to 5-20% while others have part time faculty working only 1 day / week. While endowments can make up a large percentage of a faculty member's salary, those are usually declared as part of their salary and are rare. (anybody here an endowed chair of anything?)

My student loan companies made me an endowed chair of sorts.

 

[jsh1986]

People can report income without specifying the sources. Typically besides a faculty income plan, usually based on productivity, there are monies from grants, money from associated institutions like the VA, speaking fees, legal and industryl consultant fees and occasionally, usually for senior professor-level faculty, university endowment support.

Orbitsurg: so any idea (ballpark) of how much the AVERAGE salary would amount to for say

a) comprehensive b) neuro-op c) cornea d) retina

if you are 5 years out of training, once you include the baseline academic salary, +VA bonus, + productivity bonus, +grants/consulting/speaking fees?


I realize that endowed professorships, chairman, etc. can be quite high but I was more trying to get a sense of the ~5 year out salary. I realize there is a range, like everything in life, but I don't know if we're talking about 50% less than average private, or 30% less, etc. Thanks!!!


I ask as someone who is interested in the future in being on the faculty at an academic medical center and I'm curious what sort of salary range we are looking at...

 

[Visionary]

Orbitsurg: so any idea (ballpark) of how much the AVERAGE salary would amount to for say

a) comprehensive b) neuro-op c) cornea d) retina

if you are 5 years out of training, once you include the baseline academic salary, +VA bonus, + productivity bonus, +grants/consulting/speaking fees?


I realize that endowed professorships, chairman, etc. can be quite high but I was more trying to get a sense of the ~5 year out salary. I realize there is a range, like everything in life, but I don't know if we're talking about 50% less than average private, or 30% less, etc. Thanks!!!


I ask as someone who is interested in the future in being on the faculty at an academic medical center and I'm curious what sort of salary range we are looking at...

The answer you seek simply does not exist. It's going to be extremely variable, and all anyone could do is guess. I will tell you that one of my fellowship mentors shared with me what he made annually from all sources, and it's comparable to what I'm projecting for 2013. Realize, though, that my practice is still growing (only 3 yrs in), and currently I'm only seeing about 75% of the daily patient load he did at the time I was there.

 

[Dusn]

The answer you seek simply does not exist. It's going to be extremely variable, and all anyone could do is guess. I will tell you that one of my fellowship mentors shared with me what he made annually from all sources, and it's comparable to what I'm projecting for 2013. Realize, though, that my practice is still growing (only 3 yrs in), and currently I'm only seeing about 75% of the daily patient load he did at the time I was there.

I'm guessing anyone running a fellowship is probably seeing 80+ patients per day. But they can do this because they've got the fellows doing any injections and lasers that need to be done, dictations, any scut that can't be done by a tech, etc. They've also got the great tech support and photographers. How do you pull off that kind of patient load starting out in private practice?

 

[Visionary]

I'm guessing anyone running a fellowship is probably seeing 80+ patients per day. But they can do this because they've got the fellows doing any injections and lasers that need to be done, dictations, any scut that can't be done by a tech, etc. They've also got the great tech support and photographers. How do you pull off that kind of patient load starting out in private practice?

The mentor to whom I was referring really only has one heavy clinic day (~80) at a satellite office, but the others are more like 40-50. My comparison was to the latter. He also has research time some days, so it averages out to about 40-50 daily. I have no desire to see 80 patients per day. I would be burned out in less than a year. More power to those who can.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

You would need a team as large or larger.