salary range

[drmg456]

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All those who are interested in salary (me included), here is an incredible link, which might shatter the myth that docs are highest paid professionals.

Guys these are not the CEO or CFO, I am talking about the normal employees which includes my freind, who just has a college degree, has three houses and as old as me ie 32 years!!!!

news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article344842.ece

521,000: The average pay of Goldman Sachs employees * and that includes secretaries
By Stephen Foley in New York
Published: 12 February 2006
They call it Goldmine Sachs. And well they might. Because the Wall Street giant has become the first major investment bank to see its average salary top half a million dollars.

The extraordinary figure is disclosed in the company's latest regulatory filings and comes as a record bonus season draws to a close on both sides of the Atlantic.

Article Length: 271 words (approx.)

excerpt from another article

Typically, Goldman Sachs’s announcement of its third-quarter results kicks the bonus season into high gear. Long revered for being where the serious money gets made, the firm has had a blowout year even by its own standards. Announcing a record profit in the third quarter, Goldman also noted that it had set aside $9.25 billion, almost $420,000 per employee, in compensation. When fourth-quarter results are factored in, that total could swell to an $11 billion pool, or $500,000 per employee

 

[edinOH]

T

 

[BKN]

All those who are interested in salary (me included), here is an incredible link, which might shatter the myth that docs are highest paid professionals.

Guys these are not the CEO or CFO, I am talking about the normal employees which includes my freind, who just has a college degree, has three houses and as old as me ie 32 years!!!!

news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article344842.ece

521,000: The average pay of Goldman Sachs employees * and that includes secretaries
By Stephen Foley in New York
Published: 12 February 2006
They call it Goldmine Sachs. And well they might. Because the Wall Street giant has become the first major investment bank to see its average salary top half a million dollars.

The extraordinary figure is disclosed in the company's latest regulatory filings and comes as a record bonus season draws to a close on both sides of the Atlantic.

Article Length: 271 words (approx.)

excerpt from another article

Typically, Goldman Sachs’s announcement of its third-quarter results kicks the bonus season into high gear. Long revered for being where the serious money gets made, the firm has had a blowout year even by its own standards. Announcing a record profit in the third quarter, Goldman also noted that it had set aside $9.25 billion, almost $420,000 per employee, in compensation. When fourth-quarter results are factored in, that total could swell to an $11 billion pool, or $500,000 per employee

Is that a median or a mean? the latter i expect. If there were one master of the universe at 50 mill for 100 secretaries at 20K- mean salary $500K.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Clearly the financial world is a good place to be. But believe me a company like Goldman Sachs doesnt have too many secretaries. A friend of mine went to work for the very prestigious Tech M&A group for CSFB his salary (fresh from college) was 45K per yr. The internet boom was in full force and he got over 100K in bonus that yr. He quit the hours were insane. Bottom line is dont fool yourself making that kind of $$ aint easy.

 

[8744]

Clearly the financial world is a good place to be. But believe me a company like Goldman Sachs doesnt have too many secretaries. A friend of mine went to work for the very prestigious Tech M&A group for CSFB his salary (fresh from college) was 45K per yr. The internet boom was in full force and he got over 100K in bonus that yr. He quit the hours were insane. Bottom line is dont fool yourself making that kind of $$ aint easy.

Medicine is the only career in which you can be guaranteed the proverbial "six figure" salary when you start. The lowest paid doctors make in the low 100s for crying out loud. Not too many lawyers or business folks even come close to that. In fact, the world is full of underemployed attornies ekeing out a meager living doing the grunt work of the legal profession.

 

[babloo]

Medicine is the only career in which you can be guaranteed the proverbial "six figure" salary when you start. The lowest paid doctors make in the low 100s for crying out loud. Not too many lawyers or business folks even come close to that. In fact, the world is full of underemployed attornies ekeing out a meager living doing the grunt work of the legal profession.

I am with U Panda Bear 🙂

 

[businessmd06]

I am with U Panda Bear 🙂

But do you really think it is reasonable for EM to expect 250-300k starting as attendings, and furthermore, how will it be in 5-10 years, will it keep up with inflation or get hit like GP's are.

 

[Apollyon]

Medicine is the only career in which you can be guaranteed the proverbial "six figure" salary when you start. The lowest paid doctors make in the low 100s for crying out loud. Not too many lawyers or business folks even come close to that. In fact, the world is full of underemployed attornies ekeing out a meager living doing the grunt work of the legal profession.

The difference is that, with medicine, where you start is where you end - you may make partner or get bonuses, but you generally don't move too much up the chain, whereas in business, you start low and go up, and, as the vagaries of the market are, the sky's the limit.

 

[EctopicFetus]

The difference is that, with medicine, where you start is where you end - you may make partner or get bonuses, but you generally don't move too much up the chain, whereas in business, you start low and go up, and, as the vagaries of the market are, the sky's the limit.

I think generally you are right but much of it has to do with the work being done. In general a doc in any field (but for discussions sake lets say EM) has the same responsibility as others. So after I finish my residency in 3.5 years I have the same responsibility to each and every patient as docB, BKN or any other attending. In business on the other hand you might start as some desk monkey at in 25 years become the CEO, hence more responsibility more money..

 

[EctopicFetus]

But do you really think it is reasonable for EM to expect 250-300k starting as attendings, and furthermore, how will it be in 5-10 years, will it keep up with inflation or get hit like GP's are.

IMO this will drop a little bit because these 250-300K starting salaries are in "underserved areas" Texas, Oklahoma etc. Over time people will fill up those spots, I keep hearing the magical 2020 for the EM job market to become saturated.

 

[businessmd06]

IMO this will drop a little bit because these 250-300K starting salaries are in "underserved areas" Texas, Oklahoma etc. Over time people will fill up those spots, I keep hearing the magical 2020 for the EM job market to become saturated.

hmmm If I could go to Austin I would do it 🙂 - hmm let see ... done residency at the earliest 2017.... maybe I will make it right before the saturation, although I heard somewhere else the magic number is now 2030 🙂

 

[Apollyon]

I think generally you are right but much of it has to do with the work being done. In general a doc in any field (but for discussions sake lets say EM) has the same responsibility as others. So after I finish my residency in 3.5 years I have the same responsibility to each and every patient as docB, BKN or any other attending. In business on the other hand you might start as some desk monkey at in 25 years become the CEO, hence more responsibility more money..

That's what I'm saying - where you start is where you end - your patient responsibilities are the same at the beginning and at the end (with your remuneration linked to that), whereas you move up the line in business.

 

[EctopicFetus]

IMO it is def gonna keep getting pushed back. Everytime a new ED opens they say "we wont reach capacity for 10 years", then 3 years later patients are sitting on each others lap.

Bottom line though is that as the population gets older more $$$ comes from the government and as such they will likely try to cut spending aka cut reimbursement.

 

[EctopicFetus]

That's what I'm saying - where you start is where you end - your patient responsibilities are the same at the beginning and at the end (with your remuneration linked to that), whereas you move up the line in business.

👍 Yep so we are on the same page.. Although usually you make less your 1st 1-2 years, I assume thats to basically "buy into partnership". Is that correct Apollyon? (Advice needed for a soon the be intern)

 

[8744]

The difference is that, with medicine, where you start is where you end - you may make partner or get bonuses, but you generally don't move too much up the chain, whereas in business, you start low and go up, and, as the vagaries of the market are, the sky's the limit.

You raise a good point. However, and I know this from experience, the engineering field (as an example) is littered with the carcasses of forty-ish engineers who are laid off from what they thought were a secure jobs to be replaced by a young college graduate who will work for less. In civil engineering you can stave this fate off for a while by getting your Professional Engineering registration but a company generally only needs a small number of registered pimps and a large number of ho's.

The only way through this is to go to work for yourself but even this is risky and not necessarily the path to riches. I peaked at about 52K as an employee and as a self-employed structural guy on a good year netted about 80 to 90K. Not bad, of course, but there are only so many hours in the year and only so much you can bill per hour.

And the business is definitely feast or famine. Some months I worked like a dog, making the proverbial hay while the sun shone but other months I went around inspecting Con-Agra's chicken houses. (I waded through a lot of chicken**** but 200 bucks for four or five hours of work ain't bad if the big consumers of engineering aren't calling.)

So, while it's true that you can rise to CEO (or Uber-engineer) odds are that one will rise to a certain salary level which will still be well below what the starting salary is for the lowest payed specialty whose name I dare not speak for fear of inciting the ire of those designated as Keepers of the Primary Care Flame.

 

[8744]

..the lowest payed specialty whose name I dare not speak for fear of inciting the ire of those designated as Keepers of the Primary Care Flame...

Or, as I like to call it now, "The Specialty that Dare Not Speak Its Name."

Hey, I'm tired of the flaming.

 

[Apollyon]

👍 Yep so we are on the same page.. Although usually you make less your 1st 1-2 years, I assume thats to basically "buy into partnership". Is that correct Apollyon? (Advice needed for a soon the be intern)

That's a GREAT question, because partnership is one of the places where the scruples of the partners (or lack of same) comes to light. First of all, it applies to groups - not independent contractors or contract management groups. Some places will guarantee you partnership just by putting your time in (the group I'm joining is like that); these groups range from benevolent to draconian (sure, you'll make partner in 2 years, but >90% of associates leave in less than 2 years). Then, there's the buy-in. My group has no buy-in. Some will be on the low end, like $5000 or $10000. However, there can also be the $50K buy-in, with a 10 day window to pay it. How does this happen? Because the buy-in price is "floating" (even if it really isn't), so they can't say what it will be when you sign on. Then, when you've put your time in, all of a sudden, you have this $50K option which you have to come up with RIGHT NOW or suffer as the "hired help" for another year.

There's a few ideas about EM to integrate into your thoughts as you progress as a doctor in our specialty: the first is the golf course. We're the long-hitters - we just need to stay on the fairway; occasionally, we'll be in the rough, but not usually. Likewise, we just have to get it on the green - then, a specialist putter comes in (admitting service). Occasionally, we'll hole out, but it's not a necessity, and you need to move on to the next hole.

Another idea is that the biggest steak isn't always the best. Like it or not, the nobility of medicine also means that you need a paycheck, and, by the nature of it, you cannot (in today's day and age) live at the hospital as an EM doc as the Ob/Gyn or surgeon does. Look at the total package, because, if someone is offering you 400K, there's a reason - whether it's hell to work there, it's hell to work with the people, or anything else, or, otherwise, without flaws, they'll squeeze 500K in work out of you for the 400K paycheck. If the base pay is $150K or $170K, but the benefits package is $80K, that's righteous.

You gotta do what's right for YOU - and be deliberate in your search. What's cool is that you WILL get multiple offers, and you WILL find something that is just right for you.

 

[8744]

That's a GREAT question, because partnership is one of the places where the scruples of the partners (or lack of same) comes to light. First of all, it applies to groups - not independent contractors or contract management groups. Some places will guarantee you partnership just by putting your time in (the group I'm joining is like that); these groups range from benevolent to draconian (sure, you'll make partner in 2 years, but >90% of associates leave in less than 2 years). Then, there's the buy-in. My group has no buy-in. Some will be on the low end, like $5000 or $10000. However, there can also be the $50K buy-in, with a 10 day window to pay it. How does this happen? Because the buy-in price is "floating" (even if it really isn't), so they can't say what it will be when you sign on. Then, when you've put your time in, all of a sudden, you have this $50K option which you have to come up with RIGHT NOW or suffer as the "hired help" for another year.

There's a few ideas about EM to integrate into your thoughts as you progress as a doctor in our specialty: the first is the golf course. We're the long-hitters - we just need to stay on the fairway; occasionally, we'll be in the rough, but not usually. Likewise, we just have to get it on the green - then, a specialist putter comes in (admitting service). Occasionally, we'll hole out, but it's not a necessity, and you need to move on to the next hole.

Another idea is that the biggest steak isn't always the best. Like it or not, the nobility of medicine also means that you need a paycheck, and, by the nature of it, you cannot (in today's day and age) live at the hospital as an EM doc as the Ob/Gyn or surgeon does. Look at the total package, because, if someone is offering you 400K, there's a reason - whether it's hell to work there, it's hell to work with the people, or anything else, or, otherwise, without flaws, they'll squeeze 500K in work out of you for the 400K paycheck. If the base pay is $150K or $170K, but the benefits package is $80K, that's righteous.

You gotta do what's right for YOU - and be deliberate in your search. What's cool is that you WILL get multiple offers, and you WILL find something that is just right for you.

Dude, that is the best advice I think anybody ever gave on SDN.

 

[bartleby]

It should be no surprise that you will make more money as one of the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street than you will ever make in medicine. But they're worlds apart as careers. You're comparing apples and oranges: "Greed is good" [Oliver's Stone's "Wall Street"] verses "First, do no harm" [Some old Greek guy...can't remember his name]

In medicine, as opposed to plenty of other careers, you get to be one of the quintessential good guys. Your job is to try make people feel better. It is one of the consistently most respected professions. At the end of your life you will feel that, having been a physician, the world was a better place for your having been here.

As a physician, you are not going to be making $20 million a year, but neither you or your family are going to starve, either. Pick up any newspaper on a given day for a reminder about how many people do not have the luxury of knowing that. The average physician salary, particularly in emergency medicine is consistently on the high end of the income scale for the USA. Will you make one big deal which will let you retire? No. Will you have a steady recession-proof job which will allow you to live comfortably and provide for your family? I'll take that kind of sure deal any day.

 

[GeneralVeers]

But do you really think it is reasonable for EM to expect 250-300k starting as attendings, and furthermore, how will it be in 5-10 years, will it keep up with inflation or get hit like GP's are.

Yes it is. It just depends on where you want to live. If you want to be in a competitive market like California your starting salary will be 180-220K capping at 300K per year. If you want to live in the midwest or SouthEast, making 300K in your first year is not unheard of, and making 500K is within the realm of possibility.

 

[drmg456]

Is that a median or a mean? the latter i expect. If there were one master of the universe at 50 mill for 100 secretaries at 20K- mean salary $500K.

Thats the mean salary, not the median

 

[EctopicFetus]

So BKN makes his point. I would guess that the "C" level guys are averaging major money. Also the "MDs" (Managing Directors) at a bank like Goldman are making the proverbial bank. A good number of my friends are doing investment banking, private equity, etc (all the big money bs). A half decent MD at Goldman (Which BTW is one of the top dogs) is making 4-20 mil a yr (including bonuses). The bankers usually make more in bonuses than they do in salary.

A little food for thought on how the I bankers make money. Lets say I help a company raise $10 Billion the normal fee is 7%, or for you non math majors $70 million in "fees". Any wonder why they make this incredible amount of cash!?

 

[drmg456]

So BKN makes his point. I would guess that the "C" level guys are averaging major money. Also the "MDs" (Managing Directors) at a bank like Goldman are making the proverbial bank. A good number of my friends are doing investment banking, private equity, etc (all the big money bs). A half decent MD at Goldman (Which BTW is one of the top dogs) is making 4-20 mil a yr (including bonuses). The bankers usually make more in bonuses than they do in salary.

A little food for thought on how the I bankers make money. Lets say I help a company raise $10 Billion the normal fee is 7%, or for you non math majors $70 million in "fees". Any wonder why they make this incredible amount of cash!?

I am afraid, its 700 million instead of 70 million(if its 7 percent of 10 billion)

 

[EctopicFetus]

I am afraid, its 700 million instead of 70 million(if its 7 percent of 10 billion)

whoops point taken

 

[WilcoWorld]

Personally, I really do not care to think much about money (still putting off doing my taxes...), so I am a bit suprised that I'm the first to mention this here, but...

People often mention that EM docs start off at a salary close to what they'll retire at, and speakof this as a bad thing. However, I see it as a good thing for two reasons.

1) Compounding interest: If one continues to live his/her resident life style, or only modestly improved from it, during the first 5 or so years of attendingship one can put a lot of money away. By the time retirement rolls around, the compound interest will make those first few years of a "relatively low salary for a doctor" just as valuable, if not more, as the eventually high salary of an established surgeon. For the surgeon works 20 years to get to the point of pulling 300k + and thus doesn't get to earn 20 years of interest on it, yet the EMP who put away a lot of money early on is not out-earning the surgeon later in life, but his/her bank account is just as big or maybe even bigger.

2) Retirement: For me, a good salary can serve 3 functions aside from keeping me warm & fed. It can allow me to not be worried about money, it can put my (as of yet unborn) kids through college, and it can allow me to retire early. If one starts off his career making 200k and is making 250k at the end of the career,retirement is not an unattractive prospect at that point. But if one starts off making 100k, and 20 years later is making 500k he will be less likely to be comfortable retiring. For, every extra year that the latter professional works is worth so much more than the earlier years in his/her career that it is financially irresponsible to retire, even though it might be getting harder & harder to make those early morning rounds.

Sorry if the above is a bit unclear in its fiscal reasoning. I don't know crap about econ, and I'm still shaking off last night's festivities.