SAT may go EZ-Mode

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Darko

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Is breaking up the SAT really in students' best interests? If they can't focus for 4 hours straight, how are they going to handle the MCAT -- or life, for that matter?

The Associated Press said:
College Board may allow students to take SAT sections separately
Some counselors say 3 hour, 45 minute test is too stressful for one sitting

Justin Pope / AP Education Writer

Facing complaints the SAT has grown too long, the College Board will consider allowing students to take the three parts of the newly expanded college entrance exam in separate sittings.

The statement comes as at least 200 high school counselors and a handful of college admissions officers around the country have signed a letter to the College Board, which owns the exam, expressing concerns the test's length of three hours and 45 minutes has become a burden on students.

"I think the SATs have become, for some kids, a real marathon that can be highly stressful," said signatory Bob Sweeney, college counselor at Mamaroneck High School in New York. For students with special needs who are granted extra time, he noted, the exam can stretch five or six hours.

College Board spokeswoman Chiara Coletti said her organization was already aware through survey research that many felt the test was too long, and was examining whether it could be broken up. She said it would also consider other options, such as more breaks.

"Length is something that students and their advocates are feeling keenly," she said. "So we have on our own, before this letter, been looking at ways we might be able to help with that."

Still, she said the College Board would have to examine whether the change would unfairly benefit wealthier students who could afford to take the test more often.

"There are possibilities of an equity issue here," she said.

Possible changes will be discussed by the College Board's SAT committee in May, and would have to go through several steps before final approval.

Last spring, the SAT was redesigned to add a writing section, among other changes, and expanded by 45 minutes of official test-taking time.

The counselors' letter noted that the writing section is similar to the old SAT II writing subject matter test, which students had always taken separately from the regular SAT.

Sweeney said he thinks most students would still take the exam for the first time in one sitting. But those looking to improve their scores on just one section should not be forced to retake the entire exam. He said one of his students received a perfect 800 on the writing section last spring, but was forced to retake it just to have another shot at a higher math score.

"Those of us who are dealing with this every day and dealing with the stress that kids are feeling sometimes I think have a much better perspective than the people at College Board, in terms of how it affects a kid's daily life," he said.
 
I predict a significant increase in adderall prescriptions.
 
Not everyone taking the SATs are going to med school or professional school for that matter.. Just make this news a little anecdote you tell your grand kids in the future..."back when i was your age, we took the SAT straight..and I took the MCATS for 8 hrs!!!" 😀
 
Still, she said the College Board would have to examine whether the change would unfairly benefit wealthier students who could afford to take the test more often.

"There are possibilities of an equity issue here," she said.
😴 lets hope the reliable inequity outcries prevent this from happening. american students are substellar enough as it is, this shortening is rubbish. put them through more to separate the men from the boys

well, my siblings give me back in the days lectures--"back when i took the SAT we couldnt use a calculator". looks like things are getting easier and easier, good sign for american education eh. whats next, textbooks allowed on the MCAT?
 
Lets remember 99% of the people taking the SAT will probably never apply to medical school....
 
I hope they change it in about 6 Months (I know Impossible) before I take my SATs.

(Only a Junior in High school- and at times read these forums to see what I want to do with my life).
 
Shredder really makes a good point. We coddle American students, while students in other countries get pushed hard from the time they're little. I wouldn't be surprised if students in places like Japan take 4 hour tests by the time they're 10 or younger. We wonder why we're starting to lose clout in the scientific/engineering fields, and why our children consistently perform worse than children in other countries on tests of math and science skills, and then we go and baby students by doing things like this with the SAT.

Of course most people taking the SAT will never apply to medical school, or professional school of any kind. But there was also a report out a few days ago about the dropping literacy rates of COLLEGE GRADUATES in the US. That's probably due to a number of things, but IMO one reason is the current opinion that everybody should go to college. I don't think it should necessarily be the natural progression after high school. For one thing, kids ought to get a good enough education by the end of high school to be able to hold down a good, even a technical job. And by sending everybody to college we've had to create a huge number of schools with lower admissions standards. So sure, we can brag that as a nation we have the highest percentage of college graduates, but some of our college graduates can barely read! I don't know when we started thinking that college was a great option for everybody.

I suppose I sort of sound like an old fart (or something). I just see what education is like in many other countries, and how we tiptoe around our own children rather than pushing them, and I see that the future brightest minds really will come mostly from outside the US. I don't want that for my children.
 
this is quite rediculous.

however it follows even what we are taught and what the work place is trying to take heed to. this should not be about our attention deficits but our dvt's... sitting down for 1+hrs straights is generally recommended to be bad. i know i know... we all do it... but this is still the facts... and that coupled with the ave american being over weight lends to a change in a number of things.

if their only reason is that they cant focus long enough, then 1) they havent done enough research, and 2) are taking political pressure from above.

there is strong pushing to make americans look good all of the time. sure, look good but doesnt mean are better. a longer test will only be that... a longer test. everyone has to go through it so what are the complaints here?? does not make sense to say its not fair or whatever. a number of tests i took as an engineering student were designed such that we would NOT get through them. ive taken too many tests to count that were over 4 hrs in length... these test not only your logical reasoning but stamina. they test what your mind does under stress.

a book with the test?? my engineer EIT exam (now called FE, not EIT) was two sessions of 4 hours. we were tested on the whole spectrum of engineering and not just our own field of expertese. we were given a book with formulas. this was handy but you needed to know how to apply them, for instances i was electrical but i had to answer questions in fluid mechanics. for this, the book of formulas was very useful, and yes we were allowed a no communicationg calculator (no slide rules or abacasses required). but hey, we were diriving complex physics solutions. if the tested material is simple like 49/82 or some such approximation, then calcs should not be allowed since in this instance, it is a function of your brain's endurance and ability to apply what you already know. and this is how even the mcat is.

when i took my IQ test, the test ran for only a moderate time. we needed to show how fast we could think through something. a test of endurance was never considered.

at the end of the spectrum when your mind is pushed to its limits, some unpredictability may also occur. lately there have been a few cases of game players focusing on their games for 12+ hrs and dieing or having seisures.. this is really quite interesting, and should lend to more research of the mind. we know so little...

😀
 
I think the point Tigress made about the many underqualified students going to college is definitely true. In the early 1990s, there was an explosion in the number of kids going to college because all of a sudden lower middle class to poor people realized, hey, if i go to colelge I will make +X more dollars than if i go into technical school or something else. I really think college is a load of bull unless you're studying for a science/engineering/math major...anything that is applicable for the matter. Too many kids think that their liberal arts degree will make them eleventy billion dollars, but in reality they will be probably paying it off for a large remainder of their lives. What we need to do is increase admission standards, shut down low-calibre schools (i.e. all the SUNYs except Binghamton/Stony Brook/Buffalo/Albany/Geneseo), and consequently make competition a lot more fierce.
 
I agree; these days students go to college for the wrong reasons. I predict that if this trend keeps up in babying, we'll soon lose our technological superiority to other countries, especially the Asian ones like India, Taiwan, and South Korea.

When my parents were kids in Taiwan, they were forced to work hard during school all the time. They would be tested weekly, and they would study hard every day. In the US, the SAT/ACT is just a factor in what college people go to; in Taiwan, the equivalent determines what college you will be able to attend, plain as that.

Even though that process does have its inherent problems as well (a different story), the concept remains true. If we keep babying high schoolers and make things easier on them, when the time comes to put their skills down in a real life situation, they're not going to succeed. More and more jobs will go overseas, until the point that enough tech jobs in a certain country will surpass a critical point, and then that country will soon become autonomous in technology, and will become a fierce competitor (look what happened to US-Japan relations deaing with trade during the 60s and 70s). If you don't instill a hard work ethic before college, it's going to be hard on them down the road of life.
 
Slide said:
I agree; these days students go to college for the wrong reasons. I predict that if this trend keeps up in babying, we'll soon lose our technological superiority to other countries, especially the Asian ones like India, Taiwan, and South Korea.

When my parents were kids in Taiwan, they were forced to work hard during school all the time. They would be tested weekly, and they would study hard every day. In the US, the SAT/ACT is just a factor in what college people go to; in Taiwan, the equivalent determines what college you will be able to attend, plain as that.

Even though that process does have its inherent problems as well (a different story), the concept remains true. If we keep babying high schoolers and make things easier on them, when the time comes to put their skills down in a real life situation, they're not going to succeed. If you don't instill a hard work ethic before college, it's going to be hard on them down the road of life.

soon lose it? we already have. we are holding on for the simple reason of past success and a large budget. most of the engineering graduates in OUR schools are from OTHER countries. they even get scholarships to come here since none of our students apply/qualify.
 
Slide said:
In the US, the SAT/ACT is just a factor in what college people go to; in Taiwan, the equivalent determines what college you will be able to attend, plain as that.
:clap: ideal!

the problem of the USA is just like a monopolist in business--no competition, leading to complacency. speculators say google may give microsoft a run for its money and benefit all consumers. similarly, will china be americas google? india? in a morbid way, wouldnt it be awesome to see a serious WW3 to witness all americans coming together to truly showcase americas power and unity? just like WW2. or would we falter in the face of our diversity and factions. i guess to some extent this has already been displayed in vietnam and iraq.
 
why do i get the premonition that a world war III could be really close in the next 10-30 years?
 
Hermit MMood said:
why do i get the premonition that a world war III could be really close in the next 10-30 years?
i dont think so, somebody would pull out the nukes and all hell would break loose. i could see a civil war 2 though. america seems to be growing very divided. red south vs blue north? red interior flanked by blue coasts? racial tensions boiling over?
 
mikeypo0 said:
Not everyone taking the SATs are going to med school or professional school for that matter.. Just make this news a little anecdote you tell your grand kids in the future..."back when i was your age, we took the SAT straight..and I took the MCATS for 8 hrs!!!" 😀

Uh, you left out the part about walking 20 miles to the exam at the crack of dawn, barefoot in 2' of snow grandpa.
 
Shredder said:
i dont think so, somebody would pull out the nukes and all hell would break loose. i could see a civil war 2 though. america seems to be growing very divided. red south vs blue north? red interior flanked by blue coasts? racial tensions boiling over?

This country will never see another civil war. As far as Iraq goes, we have screwed it up big time and now we have no choice but to stay the course or countries like Iran, North Korea might be able to see our vunerability. it is very possible there may be a draft. Even the marine core is not meeting there monthly standards of new enlistments.
 
tigress said:
But there was also a report out a few days ago about the dropping literacy rates of COLLEGE GRADUATES in the US.

I've heard this as well! Tigress, you wouldn't happen to remember the source of that report.. I'm really interested in reading (no pun intended) it. Thanks! 😀
 
I agree with tigress and shredder on the OP's topic. It's incredible how big of an issue this has become. How much longer will we continue to dumb down college education in america? Seriously it's getting to the point where being a college grad really means very little...certainly less than it used to. People are graduating from major institutions without acquiring major skills needed in life. As a personal anecdote, my older brother is an engineer working at a major corp. in south florida and at work he deals with all types of people from other fields. The saddest thing he has seen so far is MBA-holding execs incapable of solving a percent profit problem...with a calculator and ample time...essentially they are incapable of "solving for x". Thats basic algebra. That's also pretty sad. Eventually if the trend continues all of the highly skilled positions will go to people overseas who are not babied in school and have the technical knowledge needed for these kinds of things. At UMiami, which is far from a top-end school for engineering, all of the grad students in engineering (and most of the professors for that matter) are internationals from china, india, southeast asia, the middle east, and south america. Most of them don't speak english, but they're damn good engineers. American undergrads aren't cutting it. I imagine the case must be similar at top-end schools like MIT, etc.

This whole cutting the SAT down into bites that are easier to chew for our high school students is a load of crap. Excuse the language, but its true. Give me an effing break. Four hours too stressful? Come on. Haven't you heard? Teenagers are delicate things, careful if you shake them or stress them in the slightest they may break, physically and emotionally. Let's give them a high school diploma and hell, why not, a college degree on a silver platter, so as to not put them through the ordeal of earning them. That's much too hard. Sorry if I sound bitter guys, but as someone who has never had anything given to me for free and who has had to work his ass off to get to where I am it ticks me off whenever people complain and cry that the standards are too high and that students need to be babied EVEN further. I reacted the same way when the other day I found out the BME dept at UM is cutting classes for entering undergrads. Starting this year BMEs who declare themselves premed dont have to take any of the upper level electrical engineering courses I took...thats bull, if you dont want to take those classes which are vital for a BME grad then major in biology, there's the option...Im ranting, Ill stop now. Im sure at least a couple of you must agree. 🙄
 
Hurricane95 said:
How much longer will we continue to dumb down college education in america?

Not just college education has been dumbed down - when my brother was in 4th grade his school adopted a new style of teaching math. The gist of it was there are no wrong answers in math, and it's the process that counts, thus any student who thought about it hard enough and put in some effort to solve the problem was correct. That way no one feels bad.

When I was in elementary school the principal told the parents that the classes went at the pace of the slowest kid, because they didn't want to leave anyone behind. All the lucky smart kids got to be tutors during regular class time to try to teach the slower kids. When my parents objected, the principal told them that the smart kids already had a natural advantage and there was no need to create a larger gap in the levels of the students. I learned almost nothing in school from 4th through 6th grades except that teaching is incredibly frustrating.

In 7th grade the principal told the parents that the primary objective of junior high was to socialize the students. Kids left junior high in 9th grade scoring lower on the same standardized tests that they took when they came in as 7th graders, but they sure could interact with each other well.

I in no way condone home-schooling (it made me miserable), but during the year that I home-schooled I had 4 hours of school per day and covered more than 2 years worth of public school curriculum easily. Once you take out all the crap like doing homework during class time, repeating things over and over and over for the kids who don't get it, and all the monotonous repetition, it's amazing how little time is spent actually learning.

I think from first grade on students should take standardized tests, and how well they do on those tests should determine which schools they're allowed to go to. One test in 1st grade, one in 4th grade, one in 7th, and one in 10th. To stay at the top schools you have to keep performing in the top, and to rise from a lower school to a higher school you have to work your ass off. No coddling, and everyone is NOT equal.
 
hannahq said:
I've heard this as well! Tigress, you wouldn't happen to remember the source of that report.. I'm really interested in reading (no pun intended) it. Thanks! 😀

Here's the New York Times article, but not the actual report. I haven't had a chance to look for the report itself yet.

Literacy Falls for Graduates From College, Testing Finds

By SAM DILLON
Published: December 16, 2005

The average American college graduate's literacy in English declined significantly over the past decade, according to results of a nationwide test released yesterday.

The National Assessment of Adult Literacy, given in 2003 by the Department of Education, is the nation's most important test of how well adult Americans can read.

The test also found steep declines in the English literacy of Hispanics in the United States, and significant increases among blacks and Asians.

When the test was last administered, in 1992, 40 percent of the nation's college graduates scored at the proficient level, meaning that they were able to read lengthy, complex English texts and draw complicated inferences. But on the 2003 test, only 31 percent of the graduates demonstrated those high-level skills. There were 26.4 million college graduates.

The college graduates who in 2003 failed to demonstrate proficiency included 53 percent who scored at the intermediate level and 14 percent who scored at the basic level, meaning they could read and understand short, commonplace prose texts.

Three percent of college graduates who took the test in 2003, representing some 800,000 Americans, demonstrated "below basic" literacy, meaning that they could not perform more than the simplest skills, like locating easily identifiable information in short prose.

Grover J. Whitehurst, director of an institute within the Department of Education that helped to oversee the test, said he believed that the literacy of college graduates had dropped because a rising number of young Americans in recent years had spent their free time watching television and surfing the Internet.

"We're seeing substantial declines in reading for pleasure, and it's showing up in our literacy levels," he said.

Among blacks and Asians, English literacy increased from 1992 to 2003.

About 29 percent of blacks scored at either the intermediate or proficient levels in 1992, but in 2003, those rose to 33 percent. The percentage of blacks demonstrating "below basic" literacy declined to 24 percent from 30 percent.

Asians scoring at either the intermediate or proficient levels rose to 54 percent from 45 percent in 1992.

The same period saw big declines in Hispanics' English reading skills. In 1992, 35 percent of Hispanics demonstrated "below basic" English literacy, but by 2003 that segment had swelled to 44 percent. And at the higher-performing end of the literacy scale, the proportion of Hispanics demonstrating intermediate or proficient English skills dropped to 27 percent from 33 percent in 1992.

"These are big shifts," said Mark Schneider, commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics, the arm of the Department of Education that gave the test.

"The Hispanic population in 2003 is radically different than in 1992, and many of the factors that have changed for Spanish-language immigrants make learning English more difficult," Mr. Schneider said. "They are arriving later, staying in the U.S. for a shorter period, and fewer are speaking English at home."

The 2003 test was administered to 19,000 people 16 and older, in homes, college housing and in prisons.

A test conducted in homes across New York State in conjunction with the 2003 national test found that New Yorkers were less literate in English than their national counterparts. Eleven percent of New Yorkers performed at the proficient level in reading prose texts, compared with 13 percent nationally. And 19 percent of New Yorkers scored "below basic," while only 14 percent performed that poorly across the nation.
 
Sophie said:
Not just college education has been dumbed down - when my brother was in 4th grade his school adopted a new style of teaching math. The gist of it was there are no wrong answers in math, and it's the process that counts, thus any student who thought about it hard enough and put in some effort to solve the problem was correct. That way no one feels bad.

I recently read an article about that type of math curriculum. The teachers aren't supposed to teach the children actual methods of problem-solving, but rather the theory behind the math, so the kids can figure out how to solve the problems themselves. So maybe they understand the concept of adding things together, but they're never taught how to carry into the tens place, for example. This article also quoted parents and students saying that this method doesn't work at all, and educators and administrators saying it does work. The high school kids quoted either said they were good at math because their parents taught them seperately at home, or, as others said, they went to college and were unable to do simple math that other students were capable of.

That's pretty sad. I think it's sad when educational theory gets in the way of actually teaching kids basic skills. Don't get me wrong, I think there is probably some good stuff in modern educational theory, and certainly it's worth thinking about. But seriously, how intelligent does one have to be to recognize the stupidity in the above method of "teaching" math?
 
tigress said:
Grover J. Whitehurst, director of an institute within the Department of Education that helped to oversee the test, said he believed that the literacy of college graduates had dropped because a rising number of young Americans in recent years had spent their free time watching television and surfing the Internet.

Hence the explosion in ADD/ADHD-related drugs. TV and computers have been a boon, but also a bane to society. TV/computers/video games are so visual and stimulating, that its hard to like reading. These are commodities that you don't see that much in 3rd world countries (although they are on the rise with affordable technology), but another factor which I think plays a huge role is divorce. No other country has a large rate of divorce and number of divorcees than the United States. A possible effect of this is that the mom or dad isn't there as much, giving the kid to do whatever the hell he wants. As a result, he watches more tv, gets stupid, and complains about the SAT. If you want to solve the problem, limit tv and computers early on in a kid's life and they'll probably be at the top of their class. Once you get addicted, it's hard to get off. Which reminds me now to sign off of SDN for now. 🙂
 
I don't want to sound uppity but I took the SAT earlier this year(05/05) and its really not that hard, I'm not speaking material wise. You get a few minutes woth of breaks between sections, and stretch/bathroom break. Compared only to what I've heard about the MCAT the SAT is barely a blip on the radar.
 
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