Satanism/Repressed Memory

[terrybug]

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If you had the opportunity to talk to a therapist who specializes in regression and digging for memories of Satanic worship, baby killings, etc. what would you ask?
I want to be respectful but I also want to know how someone can convince themselves that EVERY client they see is suffering from trauma that relates to forgotten cult experiences?!?
Or is it not even worth getting into a conversation?

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Um... I just want to point out that the Church of Satan actually has no ties with baby killings at all. Satanism is pretty misunderstood.

As for regressions/repressed memories... now there's a tough subject. I personally don't think it's ethical, but as far as I know therapists are well within their right to do it.

 

[psychanon]

There are actually people who actively specialize in this???
What, do they think that the baby-killing satanist movement is big enough to envelope a substantial portion of their clientèle?
This person is not doing a service to his/her patients, so I would not tread too lightly. There are cases of people developing PTSD as a result of "repressed memories" that were implanted by therapists.

 

[JockNerd]

There are actually people who actively specialize in this???
What, do they think that the baby-killing satanist movement is big enough to envelope a substantial portion of their clientèle?
This person is not doing a service to his/her patients, so I would not tread too lightly. There are cases of people developing PTSD as a result of "repressed memories" that were implanted by therapists.

I'm just old enough to remember the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" hysteria that was going on during the 80's and way dying out toward the end of that decade. It seems to me that it was probably similar to the DID mass hysteria that went on two decades ago. Plenty of kids were abused by therapists who ended up implanting memories of things that never happened. You can read neat case studies of girls who had implanted memories of being impregnated by family members, then having the fetus sacrificed, when the girl was physiologically a virgin. E. Loftus is the big name here, and R. Kluft is one of the well-known proponents.

Plenty of irresponsible, poorly-trained psychologists and psychiatrists made plenty of money off of this. Some got sued afterwards.

 

[terrybug]

I appreciate the responses so far, but no one has actually answered my question - which is: what would you want to ask someone who is an active part of this ... not sure what to call it... trend... in therapy?

Yes, it is still going on, believe it or not. It didn't die out in the 80's it's just not as prevalent on talk shows these days.

Yes, I am familiar with Dr. Loftus' work and I've met her and I think she's very insightful.

Yes, there does seem to be a large enough population of people who believe they have been involved in Satanic rituals to keep a therapist busy.

Yes, I'm sure 'real' Satanists are actually very nice people who don't have an interest in killing babies.

If someone could actually answer MY question, that would be really helpful.

 

[KillerDiller]

Cases of people who have been wrongfully imprisoned because of the Satanic ritual scare are kind pet causes of mine. I guess I'd ask, then, whether this therapist believes that evidence from his or her clients should be used in court to convict someone (and possibly even get the accused the death penalty). I'd also ask if the therapist has any response to Loftus, Levine, and the other researchers who suggest that cult abuse is an artifact of hypnosis, false memory and poor therapeutic practices.

I'd personally love to just tear into this person, but, realistically, that won't do the field any good, nor will it eliminate the problem.

 

[toby jones]

I wouldn't have anything to say to them.

It isn't a therapists job to 'take sides' in couples therapy, and it isn't a therapists job to 'believe' or to 'disbelieve' what a client says in therapy, either. It is a therapists job to help the person process their thoughts and feelings etc. If a client says they have been abducted by aliens it isn't a therapists place to believe or disbelieve. If a client says they have been abused in satanic rituals it similarly isn't a therapists place to believe or disbelieve. If a client says they have been sexually abused it similarly isn't a therapists place to believe or disbelieve...

I don't know what is up with some therapists who think that it is their place. I don't expect that my saying anything to them will make a difference, however. Especially for people who have become 'specialists' in treating 'abuse survivors' or whatever...

 

[RayneeDeigh]

If a client says they have been abused in satanic rituals it similarly isn't a therapists place to believe or disbelieve. If a client says they have been sexually abused it similarly isn't a therapists place to believe or disbelieve...

Yes agreed, but the question was about digging for memories. I assume the OP was referring to the same process that produced mass amounts of people with DID who ran around saying their fathers/uncles/etc. had sexually assaulted them as a child when it's very unlikely that this actually happened for some of them.

Especially for people who have become 'specialists' in treating 'abuse survivors' or whatever...

Uh, most regulating bodies have ways of testing competence... so if someone specializes in treating abuse survivors, then they've likely had training for it. I don't see what's wrong with that?

 

[toby jones]

I suspect the reason why some people dig dig dig for memories is because they have a false view on the nature of memory (that it is veridical) and because they thus have a false view on the nature of therapy (therapy isn't about neutrality it is about taking sides - somehow or other thats what helps patients).

I don't have trouble with people specialising in abuse... But I do have as much trouble with people who see abuse everywhere as I have trouble with people who see satanic ritual abuse everywhere.

Whatever happened to neutrality?

Just because someone has a lisence doesn't make them particularly competent (no offence folks) I know a fair few cranks WITH lisences whose behaviour conforms to current standards of conduct. I say... So much the worse for current standards of conduct...

And so much the worse for their clients, of course...

 

[zeldazelda]

...Or is it not even worth getting into a conversation?

That would be my vote.

I wouldn't engage because I'm guessing it would be highly unlikely that I could change the person's approach. The conversation would only serve to get me worked up...

Just my two cents.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Dealing in issues of trauma, especially suppressed ones, is very particular work, and hacks that try and work with it without proper training can do a lot of damage. I think what they do is unethical, and in the event there are actual repressed memories, then a great deal of care needs to be used.

-t

 

[toby jones]

Harrison G. Pope, Js and James I. Hudson (Harvard, I believe) are offering a US$1,000 reward to anyone who can produce a published case of 'repressed memory' (in fiction or non-fiction) prior to 1800:

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=177

I thought it would be easy, but turns out their criteria is rather stringent.

I don't think that failure to find a case implies what they take it to imply (for a variety of reasons). For example, it is similarly hard to find a case of someone meeting present diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia (you find individual symptoms to be sure, but not the whole cluster) prior to the industrial revolution.

I still reckon that 'therapist neutrality' is the way to go... I also think that lisence to practice should require a significant knowledge of the vageries of memory. I'm not sure I've read the Loftus stuff, but I did find something online at some point about therapist neutrality in the face of ANY memory report. I wish I could find it again... Metaphors... Memories can be an accurate representation of how the patient FEELS and it is of course important to work with that but veridicality or non-veridicality is not for therapists to decide (that is for the courts). I wonder whether therapist neutrality is correlated with patients integration of the negative feeling and negatively correlated with sueing...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Interesting. I am most familiar with Pope from his book "The Adonis Complex", which is a pretty interesting read if anyone is looking for a good book, it is about male body image in today's world.

-t