Recovered Memory and How Not to Make It Worse

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Maybe I'm a little slow, but I really had trouble following the RFT things during the ACT training I did. Would you mind briefly explaining RFT and why Hayes claims it's so essential to doing ACT well (even if those claims are incoherent)?
A large chunk of it has to do with ACT being, in theory, strictly behavior analytic in nature. Behavior analysis has always struggled a bit to give behavior analytic explanations for complex language and thought (aka “private verbal behavior”), so RFT offers an alternative behavior analytic framework to explain how humans form complex webs of association that facilitate complex language and thought. In the ACT context, clinicians examine how maladaptive relational frames develop and can be modified to be more adaptive. But I honestly think Hayes worked backwards on ACT and RFT.

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Having read on the topic repeatedly, I'm also unclear how much RFT really adds.

I will share that I always find the religious-like adulation of certain therapy schools and their developers amusing. ACT and DBT are probably the two where I see it the most. I also pretty exclusively see it from people who do not come across as particularly well-informed about either intervention or necessarily very good at implementing it, which is kind of ironic.

I count among my friends two former grad students of Hayes and one of Linehan. All are remarkably frank about the pros/cons of those interventions and very clear about the fact there is little magic to any of it. Quite the opposite.
 
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Having read on the topic repeatedly, I'm also unclear how much RFT really adds.

I will share that I always find the religious-like adulation of certain therapy schools and their developers amusing. ACT and DBT are probably the two where I see it the most. I also pretty exclusively see it from people who do not come across as particularly well-informed about either intervention or necessarily very good at implementing it, which is kind of ironic.

I count among my friends two former grad students of Hayes and one of Linehan. All are remarkably frank about the pros/cons of those interventions and very clear about the fact there is little magic to any of it. Quite the opposite.


E/RP often has a subject of equally intense theological exhortation. Not to be disgustingly psychodynamic, but one wonders whether clinicians who focus on treating anxiety-provoking people find it easier to tolerate their own distress by simply denying there can be any doubt that they are pursuing the Correct course.
 
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Maybe I'm getting confused by the double negative, but 'zero support as a non-iatrogenic phenomena' seems to mean that recovered memories are always created/implanted by a therapist.



This implies that recovered memories are based on events experienced in real life, but they are some sort of confabulation.



This isn't what you said before.



This isn't a psychodynamic analysis. Thats called confidence. Also youre assuming that there are patients which will definitely always provoke anxiety in everyone. You can get used to stuff. I think its called immersion therapy.



Does anyone know what Betrayal Trauma Theory is? I'm gonna assume most of you laugh at Terror Management Theory even though they have proven it empirically and it has passed the replicability test and its mind numbingly basic and should be easily infered from the most rudimentary knowledge of history.
We got back on track from a detour 200 miles ago by resetting the tone of this conversation. Non-defensive curiosity is essential for personal and professional growth. Why so attached to the need of being right and convincing others?
 
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You're saying that recovered memories as a phenomena has no basis in reality and any time a person claims to have recovered one it is wholly due to the clinician somehow?

I was about to make about about the state of (acceptance/rejection) recovered memories in the western academic/scientific field of psychology because its obviously a.....well according to you/clausewitz2 its settled, but I have been reading the 8 volume APA Encyclopedia of Psychology and one of the first entries is abreaction. Its tone is that hidden/recovered memories are.........its like a description of lungs. We know they exist and have known for a while and its not a big deal and here is how they work. Theres not one suggestion that the phenomena is controversial in any way.

There is also Betrayal Trauma Theory and interestingly enough the originator, Dr. Jennifer Freyd, claimed that her father has abused her and she had recovered the memory (this was before she had published anything about BTT). He and his wife/her mom went on to found the False Memory Syndrome Foundation and from what I can tell, this group is responsible for the controversy/confusion over the validity of the phenomena.

And obviously he was guilty right? You don't have to be a psychologist to know that, if someone accuses this and then their parents start a group wholly motivated to to call the son/daughter a liar/delusional and spent so much time and energy on it that it became nationally recognized.........well we can at least say he did not care about her whatsoever. If he didn't do it and had one iota of affection for his daughter he would have wondered why something like this would have come to her mind instead of making the whole thing about himself and subjecting her to embarassment on a national level.

I am quite familiar with Freyd and betrayal trauma. She has done some great, scholarly work on the topic. That does not mean that I believe her recovered memory is valid (and I'm not saying it isn't, but the quality of her scholarship is unrelated to her personal claim of a recovered memory).

Since you're asking for actual work on false memories and the fallibility of memory in general, I suggest that you familiarize yourself with Loftus's work if you haven't already.
 
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Maybe I'm getting confused by the double negative, but 'zero support as a non-iatrogenic phenomena' seems to mean that recovered memories are always created/implanted by a therapist.



This implies that recovered memories are based on events experienced in real life, but they are some sort of confabulation.



This isn't what you said before.



This isn't a psychodynamic analysis. Thats called confidence. Also youre assuming that there are patients which will definitely always provoke anxiety in everyone. You can get used to stuff. I think its called immersion therapy.



Does anyone know what Betrayal Trauma Theory is? I'm gonna assume most of you laugh at Terror Management Theory even though they have proven it empirically and it has passed the replicability test and its mind numbingly basic and should be easily infered from the most rudimentary knowledge of history.
Are you familiar with Art-Trolling Theory? Or James' Benign Rustling Theory? If not, you should be
 
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You could have just said 'you are too stupid to know how stupid you are'. I would've thought 'oh ok. I understand what that means simply based on the definition of the word stupid'.

Instead you cited a study. You needed to use the work of other people who empirically proved the phenomena to tell me that I was too stupid to know how stupid I was.

Why are you making such simple things so complicated? Obviously this is just an example to illustrate a larger problem in the entire field. An inefficiency in the collective thought process.
Oh honey. Wikipedia isn’t a study.

The mention was to show it's a common phenomenon.
 
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@psych.meout That wasn't trolling that was showing you how the things you think don't make sense.

@madjack What I didn't capitolize lidenfields name? I spelled it wrong? I called him just a guy? Who cares? I am trying to tell you that your entire professions approach is wrong and you are hurting the people you claim to want to help.

This isn't trolling. Valid criticism isn't trolling. Challenging the assumptions your field is based upon is not trolling.

Its an attempt to show you how to live up to your Hippocratic Oath. Its an attempt to get you over your pretension in order to relieve the suffering of people I care about.
 
Its an attempt to show you how to live up to your Hippocratic Oath. Its an attempt to get you over your pretension in order to relieve the suffering of people I care about.

(1) We don't even take the Hippocratic Oath - we're psychologists, not medical doctors.

(2) You are not thinking rationally about this at all because you are too close to the issue. Real harm has been done by this stuff.

(3) I suggest you step back and let the science handle this.

(4) I fell for the bait.
 
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3) You mean 'let us use the scientific method to evaluate claims of what the truth is'. Cause thats all you people have done. Verify **** people from 1000s of years ago came up with.
I'm not sure why you're so fixated on this as some kind of "gotcha" against psychology. There are many scientific disciplines that include empirical investigation and refinement of traditional practices, from exercise and diet to medicine to engineering. That doesn't mean those disciplines are any less useful or rigorous than if they were developed whole cloth in recent decades.

Acceptance and commitment therapy sounds a lot like the 12 step program.
Even if you don't buy into the RFT stuff, ACT is very different from 12 step programs.

And apparently it has higher efficacy than what you scientists have come up with. All I did was google 12 step program efficacy vs therapy cause it was a random thought that popped into my head.


"There is high quality evidence that manualized AA/TSF interventions are more effective than other established treatments, such as CBT, for increasing abstinence."

Don't tell me how this massive meta-analysis of literature is wrong. I wouldn't get it. Im not a scientist. And the NIH and NCBI sound like homeopathy practictioners anyway so youre probably fine.
Again, you're so fixated on psychological science investigating treatments from non-psychologists that you're acting like this is a knock against psychology instead of an affirmation that this is how psychology research works. It's like when people point to replication studies whose results lead to questioning prior research as somehow a flaw of science rather than a demonstration of how science works and is self-correcting.
4) See how you were able to counter my argument with numbered bullet points? That means I'm not trolling you. You think I'm a troll because I'm being mean and sarcastic. Well I started by trying to be nice but that didn't work did it? I hate that I'm acting like this. Its embarrassing and its why it takes me so long to get back here and reply. Ugh....I'm being like this because I've tried to convince others that I'm right in the past and it always ended up with them laughing at me because.....this thing is just a nightmare but I'm right and I can prove it using **** you guys have already come up with. Unless Mcclelland was wrong about power motive and I somehow missed that in a google search.
These sound like good reasons to take a step back from posting here for a while.
 

Getting lost in a mall is not — as Loftus implicitly suggests by citing her study — analogous to incestuous abuse. In a variation on the mall study published in 1997, researchers sought to emphasize this distinction by presenting subjects with one true memory and two false ones: being lost in the mall and receiving a rectal enema. The hypothesis was that the less plausible event, the enema, wouldn’t create false memories so easily. Three of 20 subjects “remembered” having been lost in the mall. Zero remembered the enema.

“The typical response was ‘No ****ing way. That didn’t happen,’ ” says Kathy Pezdek, a cognitive psychologist and an expert in eyewitness memory, who conducted the experiment.

Coan, Loftus’s former student and now a neuroscientist and psychology professor at the University of Virginia, has decidedly mixed feelings about the experiment he inadvertently spearheaded. “I’m slow enough on the uptake that it took me a while to realize that the study I was doing was making people who had been sexually abused feel like I was their enemy,” he tells me. “That was completely devastating to me.” Although he has been asked to testify about false memory in countless court cases, Coan has always refused. He just doesn’t think the mall study is sufficiently relevant. In her excitement, he thinks, Loftus may have “mischaracterized” what started out as an undergraduate assignment for extra credit.

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There’s a question that has bothered me ever since I learned of the Lost in the Mall study: How did researchers know that what the subjects were describing was a genuine “false memory” and not just a story they agreed with? If prompted, I too can imagine myself as a child lost in a shopping mall, looking frantically for my mother. I can make myself see it, and if my mother told me it happened, I’d probably believe her. But does that really count as a memory, or is it just a mental picture — something I can see in my head? How can anyone outside my brain tell the difference unless they were there?

The consensus among memory scientists is that you can’t. This is one of the fundamental weaknesses of studies that model the Lost in the Mall methodology, says Chris Brewin, a clinical psychologist and professor at University College London. “Judgments about whether somebody’s got a false memory or not are almost always made by the experimenters and not by the person themselves,” he says. “Almost never have they actually asked the person, ‘How convinced are you that this actually happened to you and that the pictures you have in your head correspond to that event?’ ” The Loftus mall study asked subjects to rate the clarity of their memory — how vivid the picture in their head was — as well as their confidence that they’d be able to remember more detail if given more time. Is that the same thing as measuring one’s belief in a memory, the feeling that it actually took place in the way one remembers it?

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Based on Freyds explination of betrayal trauma theory, it is clear why the lost in the mall experiment has no relevance to her conception of psychogenic amnesia.

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I figured out a way to clearly state my larger point.

The philosophy of science is currently being used in the western academic field of academic/scientific psychology (WAP) to rationalize the invalidation of inate/introspective or a priori information. No other academic/scientific field of study so wholly debases and denigrates a priori information in the same way.

This statement is directly connected to the issues around false/recovered memories, but I won't go there right now.

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It is stated that the difference between psychology and sociology is that psychology is the study of one person

Psychologists wholly depend on the statistical anayalsis of observed information to evaluate the validity of their hypothesis. However their methodology is based on a premise which has never been observed (one person existing)

Is that a problem at all?

There is way more research on false memory than the Lost in the Mall study.

I don't agree with the dichotomy presented here, either, claiming that false memory research puts you at odds with sexual abuse survivors. I specialize in sexual trauma. It does far more disservice to survivors to not question the validity of recovered memories, IMO. It's like how "believe all victims" doesn't mean that we don't investigate or try to figure out the facts, it just means that we don't immediately dismiss people's stories or examine the facts with the aim of discrediting them.
 
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You wrote a lot there and it’s hard to respond to each point, so I’ll just say this: my understanding is that leading questions via asking children things in regular settings or under hypnosis can introduce false memories. Loftus has a body of research that shows how easy it is to introduce false memories, and we also know that eyewitness testimony is extremely fallible based on what you ask and how you ask questions. In short, memory is imperfect because the memory can change when recalled. Yet this doesn’t mean that all our memories are inaccurate. And sometimes during meditation some folks have memories and associated feelings come up that they’d forgotten for years, but didn’t necessarily “repress.” That’s just an anecdotal example of some quirks in memory/recall that can happen.

Not every psychologist in this forum believes that you can’t possibly repress memories of abuse or trauma, or aspects of it. In fact, one question on the PCL-5 asks about forgetting important parts of the experience, but it assumes you at least remember some part of it. However, my personal belief is that it is unlikely and exceptionally rare to repress trauma completely such that there is zero memory at all for many years. I think it’s possible, but not probable. So first I would look for all of the possible explanations while staying open to different factors, some of which you mentioned. It certainly would get tricky if family cannot verify or is motivated to answer a certain way because of their own biases, so for some folks, there may not ever be a way to really know for sure. But I think with time it would sort itself out in terms of clinical understanding. So I would be inclined to agree with @cara susanna that i wouldn’t immediately be looking to discredit, but be curious and open to possibilities and allow initially for ambiguity as I would attempt to help the client sort it out over time. I’m not familiar with the Freyd theory but would perhaps explore it more if it seemed like a possibility clinically (as I said, I would expect the true occurrence to be extremely rare if it does occur, because I’ve worked with folks who experienced trauma and their lives are a struggle because they remember it, not the opposite).

That’s my practical take.
 
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The currently the accepted logic which has been used to create an equivalence between the claims is

remembering an innocuous event which did not happen
means that
a traumatic event which was forgotten and then remembered did not happen

how does this make any sense whatsoever?

remembering an innocuous event which did not happen
is not the same as
a traumatic event which was forgotten and then remembered

loftus said it herself in a phone call posted on jimmy coan's twitter. shes in the business of remembering not forgetting.


pinned at the top. you cant miss it.

I was wrong about the 'wholly dependent on observation' thing. Psychology does not rely totally on observation whatsoever. Now I wish it did.

Yes, you can have gaps in your memory of a traumatic event, but that's not the same as suppressing an entire memory. And, as van der Kolk says, the body keeps score: even if you yourself have suppressed the memory, there would still be triggers etc.

I'm not saying that I would fully dismiss every single recovered memory as false outright, but memory is very tricky. We even have research on eyewitness testimony being unreliable.

Btw, here's a good article on the false memory debate that also discusses the history: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
 
Yes, you can have gaps in your memory of a traumatic event, but that's not the same as suppressing an entire memory. And, as van der Kolk says, the body keeps score: even if you yourself have suppressed the memory, there would still be triggers etc.

I'm not saying that I would fully dismiss every single recovered memory as false outright, but memory is very tricky. We even have research on eyewitness testimony being unreliable.

Btw, here's a good article on the false memory debate that also discusses the history: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals
And I think this is where the real disconnect is coming from. No one is saying that less than perfect recall of a traumatic event is a sign of malingering, iatrogenic false memory, etc. Rather, the lack of any explicit or implicit recollection or impact of the event for for years or decades until someone (e.g., a therapist) who is interested in and reinforces "recovered" memories should at least lead to heavy skepticism.

The currently the accepted logic which has been used to create an equivalence between the claims is

remembering an innocuous event which did not happen
means that
a traumatic event which was forgotten and then remembered did not happen

how does this make any sense whatsoever?

remembering an innocuous event which did not happen
is not the same as
a traumatic event which was forgotten and then remembered

loftus said it herself in a phone call posted on jimmy coan's twitter. shes in the business of remembering not forgetting.


pinned at the top. you cant miss it.

I was wrong about the 'wholly dependent on observation' thing. Psychology does not rely totally on observation whatsoever. Now I wish it did.
You've already been told at least once that there is far more research in this area than Loftus' research and supposedly poking holes in her research does not somehow refute the rest of this body of research.
 
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Have you looked into all the instances of recovered memories where a therapist was not involved? Where the person has never even told anyone about the recovered memories?


f
I'm not poking holes in the research, I'm saying that the research isn't even testing the claim. That there has been a false equivocation. A fundamental misunderstanding of the claim.

Freyd's theory is very simple. I'm using my own words though.

Because belonging is fundamental to survival, especially during early development, there must be a mechanism which hides memories which will evoke a con-specific fear.

This mechanism would have had to develop in the first species where belonging was fundamental to survival.

Now if you extrapolate from this, one of predicted effects is a totally fantastical (highly highly improbable) narrative. This way the parents/caregivers are not the object of fear. These narratives are ubiquitous. There were the satanic rituals which the FBI investigated and found no evidence of. There are UFO abductions. Government kidnappings. The existence of all these obviously false memories would make perfect sense based on my extrapolation of Freyd's theory.

It would not work like this every single time though as the mechanism is highly complex. Obviously not all traumatic incidents are forgotten.


The first stage in the recovered memory process would in no way be an accurate recall. It would be a false memory.


Thats why the whole body of research has nothing to do with what is actually happening.

Also this really only happens to kids so it makes no sense to test adults.

Memory is memory. It doesn't matter what the motivation for forgetting/repressing is. If scientific research shows that you can implant false memories of negative events, any memory is potentially suspect. If there is no actual mechanism for entirely forgetting a truamatic event to occur within the memory system, that is indeed relevant.

Furthermore, if you're arguing based on betrayal trauma theory that forgetting/repressing has occurred to protect important relationships or survival, why would this paradigm not apply to other situations where cohesion is also paramount to survival (e.g., military sexual trauma)? Yet you don't run into recovered memories with MST.

The article I linked above discusses that rates of recovered memories are higher amongst people working with therapists.

Also, here's a critique of betrayal trauma theory with regards to recovered memories (I think that betrayal trauma theory has a lot of merit, in other ways) Betrayal trauma theory: a critical appraisal - PubMed
 
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Have you looked into all the instances of recovered memories where a therapist was not involved? Where the person has never even told anyone about the recovered memories?
I mean, that's why I used "e.g.," instead of "i.e.," but go off, I guess.
f
I'm not poking holes in the research, I'm saying that the research isn't even testing the claim. That there has been a false equivocation. A fundamental misunderstanding of the claim.

Freyd's theory is very simple. I'm using my own words though.

Because belonging is fundamental to survival, especially during early development, there must be a mechanism which hides memories which will evoke a con-specific fear.

This mechanism would have had to develop in the first species where belonging was fundamental to survival.
"Must be?" According to whom? According to what research and data?

What about all the people who were abused by their caregivers as children and remember it vividly and/or had very apparent symptoms of it observable by others (e.g., teachers at school seeing them act out)? Why is this purported "mechanism" so selective? How do you explain why this mechanism is at work in apparently so few cases, but somehow "must" exist as a key component of survival?

It really sounds like you've decided a conclusion and are working backwards to support it and have develop this just-so evo psych story to explain it.

Now if you extrapolate from this, one of predicted effects is a totally fantastical (highly highly improbable) narrative. This way the parents/caregivers are not the object of fear. These narratives are ubiquitous. There were the satanic rituals which the FBI investigated and found no evidence of. There are UFO abductions. Government kidnappings. The existence of all these obviously false memories would make perfect sense based on my extrapolation of Freyd's theory.

It would not work like this every single time though as the mechanism is highly complex. Obviously not all traumatic incidents are forgotten.


The first stage in the recovered memory process would in no way be an accurate recall. It would be a false memory.


Thats why the whole body of research has nothing to do with what is actually happening.

Also this really only happens to kids so it makes no sense to test adults.
I mean, kids become adults and it's usually the adults (like Freyd, who was in her 30s when she "recovered" the memories of her supposed abuse via therapy) who are reporting they repressed memories of abuse from childhood, so I'm not sure how this is somehow a cogent criticism against the large body of research on this subject. Moreover, children are much more suggestible than adults, which is why their testimony is often reviewed with varying degrees of skepticism. It would help for you to look into the forensic literature relating to children and adolescents.
This really only applies to kids. Ages 0-~12. Same response to your second statement.
That's not a rebuttal. If adults can have false memories implanted, including those of negative events, why would children be immune to this process?

You need to provide some kind of refutation of @CaraS susanna's argument and the literature upon which her argument is based, not dismiss it by saying this only applies to kids.
The easy way to tell if someone was faking (or just misremembering) would be the massive amount of functional issues. Like believing and insisting on being abducted by the government at a young age for example. Trust issues to the point of anti-social behavior. Massive memory issues in general. Not remembering outbursts seems to happen alot. I imagine this to be a fairly common occurrence in homeless populations because of the massive confusion it causes.
This makes it even more apparent that you haven't actually looked at the literature on recovered memories and the implantation of false ones. It is not necessary for someone to have significant cognitive issues or psychopathology to implant false memories or be reinforced by even a well-meaning person into believing that something occurred when it didn't.

Look into some of Otgaar's research about recovered memories.

Has there been any research done on implanting obviously false narratives? Government abduction, UFO abduction....Sexual abuse at all?
you: we can't do that for ethical reasons
me: Well thats what we are talking about. I imagine its fairly hard to convince someone they were kidnapped by the government. Because we can't do it we have to rely on intuition.
That doesn't follow. We don't just throw up our hands and "rely on intuition" in science when there are supposedly gaps in the literature or when we are trying to draw conclusions about phenomena. There's more than a half century (e.g., Meehl) of work about this.

Moreover, while you haven't operationalized "intuition," it sure seems like the tacit meaning is whatever you personally believe is true.

Finally, why is it that you're allowed to "extrapolate" based on existing theory and research, but everyone who disagrees with you isn't allowed to do this and we have to default to "intuition" that supposedly proves you correct instead? Why can't we "extrapolate" based on the memory studies with adults, the forensic peds literature, and the implanted memory research? Is it because doing so would contradict your claims?
 
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There's a lot here, and it's very difficult to decide what to respond to, so I'll do my best to look at the larger issues here rather than responding to each point.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your experience, and it is clear that you feel very strongly about this topic. For what it's worth, I mentioned that I think it's possible that this can happen, although I said I thought it was rare. But, your experience may be one of those cases. So let's be clear that I'm not trying to invalidate your experience with what I said earlier about it being rare or discredit anything about your personal experience.

I think where the conflict is is that it may appear that psychologists in here are dismissive of the concept of remembering trauma long after the fact generally because of the body of false memory research and research on recall, eyewitness testimony, etc. We just don't have that much research out there for spontaneous (or other) trauma memory recovery outside of therapeutic settings, is my understanding (unless I'm wrong--this isn't my area of expertise), and most folks who experience trauma that we do see in therapy have remembered it well since the event. But not everyone here believes it is impossible.

Also, not all psychologists in here are anti-psychodynamic/psychoanalytic theory. As I mentioned in another thread, some contemporary psychoanalytic theories in particular have a decent amount of research support (indeed, IPT is a well-established evidenced-based treatment for depression!), and several folks I know appreciate the contribution of the ideas such as transference/countertransference in therapy, etc. Aspects of contemporary psychoanalytic theory have been supported by research, so I don't think this forum is quite as extreme on the issue of psychoanalytic theory as it may appear based on the few folks who responded to your comments.

I'm not sure what you're looking for in this particular thread, but I would imagine that you feel invalidated by the responses. I know nothing of Freyd's theory, etc. but am familiar with other psychoanalytic concepts and believe that some of them have utility at times. I hold room for different possibilities as a clinician if it doesn't seem to be an issue of some other obvious factor involved (i.e. personality traits, etc.). There are several folks I would imagine do the same and allow for some ambiguity if it isn't straightforward. Some folks sound extreme in this thread, perhaps, but this isn't how it works in actual practice for many of us, so my hope is that you don't take this thread as an indication that everyone in practice is very extreme and attempts to challenge recently remembered trauma narratives from the start, etc.

If you're interested in a line of research or scholarship that may support Freyd's theory and your own addition to it, more power to you! It sounds like you have thought about this a lot.
 
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There's a lot here, and it's very difficult to decide what to respond to, so I'll do my best to look at the larger issues here rather than responding to each point.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your experience, and it is clear that you feel very strongly about this topic. For what it's worth, I mentioned that I think it's possible that this can happen, although I said I thought it was rare. But, your experience may be one of those cases. So let's be clear that I'm not trying to invalidate your experience with what I said earlier about it being rare or discredit anything about your personal experience.

I think where the conflict is is that it may appear that psychologists in here are dismissive of the concept of remembering trauma long after the fact generally because of the body of false memory research and research on recall, eyewitness testimony, etc. We just don't have that much research out there for spontaneous (or other) trauma memory recovery outside of therapeutic settings, is my understanding (unless I'm wrong--this isn't my area of expertise), and most folks who experience trauma that we do see in therapy have remembered it well since the event. But not everyone here believes it is impossible.

Also, not all psychologists in here are anti-psychodynamic/psychoanalytic theory. As I mentioned in another thread, some contemporary psychoanalytic theories in particular have a decent amount of research support (indeed, IPT is a well-established evidenced-based treatment for depression!), and several folks I know appreciate the contribution of the ideas such as transference/countertransference in therapy, etc. Aspects of contemporary psychoanalytic theory have been supported by research, so I don't think this forum is quite as extreme on the issue of psychoanalytic theory as it may appear based on the few folks who responded to your comments.

I'm not sure what you're looking for in this particular thread, but I would imagine that you feel invalidated by the responses. I know nothing of Freyd's theory, etc. but am familiar with other psychoanalytic concepts and believe that some of them have utility at times. I hold room for different possibilities as a clinician if it doesn't seem to be an issue of some other obvious factor involved (i.e. personality traits, etc.). There are several folks I would imagine do the same and allow for some ambiguity if it isn't straightforward. Some folks sound extreme in this thread, perhaps, but this isn't how it works in actual practice for many of us, so my hope is that you don't take this thread as an indication that everyone in practice is very extreme and attempts to challenge recently remembered trauma narratives from the start, etc.

If you're interested in a line of research or scholarship that may support Freyd's theory and your own addition to it, more power to you! It sounds like you have thought about this a lot.
I don't think this is an entirely fair characterization. What's "extreme" about going with the research and subsequent theories on recovered memories, eyewitness testimony, etc. that you earlier admit exist?

Moreover, I don't know that anyone here is claiming that something is objectively impossible forever, but rather that these claims being made do not comport with the aforementioned literature and other research on cognition, memory, etc. People like Freyd and her followers are more than welcome to do research and overturn existing theories, as Marshall and Warren did with H. pylori. The problem is when these people want to dismiss out of hand the research that conflicts with their beliefs and eschew getting their hands dirty with doing the research themselves.

We see the same issues with the DID community.
 
I wasn’t feeling personally invalidated before. I am now though. I am getting a strong ‘look at how cute the patient is trying to understand things’ vibe. Psychme.out didn’t even respond to anything I said.
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