Saying you speak other languages on AMCAS?

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pokemoniscool

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Well... I was wondering what the general consensus was on saying you spoke other languages on the app, albeit poorly. I know a decent amount of conversational Chinese (can't read or write) and I took French at an AP level. I've heard that interviewers might converse with you in that language...
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The instructions say "Enter information regarding the language(s) you speak fluently."

That means either bilingual or fluent - conversational or AP doesn't really count.
 
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Would they hold it against you for saying your primary language is not English?
 
How would you do if you walked into your first interview and the interviewer held the entire interview in your 2nd or 3rd language? If you believe you could do it w/o any problem, go for it, but realize that if you fail, you're done. The end. Go directly to the Caribbean. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200 (or any financial aid for that matter).
 
apumic said:
How would you do if you walked into your first interview and the interviewer held the entire interview in your 2nd or 3rd language? If you believe you could do it w/o any problem, go for it, but realize that if you fail, you're done. The end. Go directly to the Caribbean. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200 (or any financial aid for that matter).
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I agree that this is a good way to judge it. This has happened to applicants in the past, so realize that if you list another language fluency you might as well be just as likely to be interviewing with a native speaker.
 
I'm going to put French, but if my interviewer tries to hold the interview in French I'm going to explain, in French, that my skills are not so hot since I lived in West Africa with an especially ghetto version of the language. I feel like if I explain that appropriately we'll shift the conversation back to English. I mean, I'm fluent in my life here, but it's not interviewing for medical school fluent. I'm not too concerned about it.
 
so if I grew up in a bilingual household, and learned a second language that way, but don't know how to write the language, and wouldn't be comfortable doing an interview entirely in the language or discussing research in the language, I can't list the second language anywhere on my app?
 
Catalystik said:
. . . which may well include a detailed discussion of your research in that language.
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Yeah, this happens to someone almost every year. Don't list a language if you aren't fluent. Just as you don't list that you are a concert pianist unless you are ready for the tour to stop at a baby grand someplace for you to play something. It's not unheard of for interviewers to call your bluff.
 
Yes, I had some interviews in my second language. One interviewer had grown up near where I had lived, and we talked about my research and then my experiences in that village. I can read and write in several languages, but I doubt that I could discuss my research and some of my more unusual experiences very well in those languages.

But, yes, if you put an activity on AMCAS (or MD/PhD applications), they may decide that it would be helpful for someone who shares your interests to interview you (fun for both people sort of a thing). I had several interviewers on the committee specifically request me in the cycle (found out after it) because they wanted my take on an issue or they wanted the secrets to some of my recipes. Put your activities on there as if an entire interview could be based off of them.
 
Okay, I've taken Ancient Greek for 3 years - it's the foundation for my Classics major. I read it pretty well, but you don't converse in it. Ever. Should I put it in as a second language?
 
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"Fluent" doesn't mean "I studied it in college." It means "I can speak it just as well as English." I don't think anyone has come out of 3 years of college classes fluent in a language. Your courses will be evident on your transcript.
 
I have a fluent understanding of my second language, but I can't speak it that well, so I'm not listing it. I plan to mention it and the culture on secondaries though.
 
kansaskid said:
I'm going to put French, but if my interviewer tries to hold the interview in French I'm going to explain, in French, that my skills are not so hot since I lived in West Africa with an especially ghetto version of the language. I feel like if I explain that appropriately we'll shift the conversation back to English. I mean, I'm fluent in my life here, but it's not interviewing for medical school fluent. I'm not too concerned about it.
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My plan with Spanish as well. There are plenty of native Spanish speakers who would not know the vocabulary related to the pathophysiology of Alzheimers (an example of my research) and I think explaining my limited scientific vocabulary in the language will be sufficient.
 
theWUbear said:
My plan with Spanish as well. There are plenty of native Spanish speakers who would not know the vocabulary related to the pathophysiology of Alzheimers (an example of my research) and I think explaining my limited scientific vocabulary in the language will be sufficient.
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I would think that this would be an ok way of going about it. Then again, I have no idea, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not applying yet, but English is my third language, and I intend on listing all of the languages I can fluently speak. Then again, I could probably handle the vast majority of an interview with minimal if any review of the languages I can speak fluently. Definitely not the science-specific portions of it, though. This doesn't make me a non-native speaker or someone who hasn't lived in the country. Acquiring knowledge of scientific language in another language is extremely hard unless you've taken science classes in that language.

Having said all of that, I probably would be more excited than anything to talk to someone in my first language. Though depending on certain factors unrelated to my language skills, that interview has the possibility of going very badly.
 
Guys, I know that there are likely a lot of folks who list languages that they can't speak that well, and I'm sure those of us that DO speak those languages well feel anger toward them.....BUT, fluent does NOT mean that you speak it as well as what you consider your "native" language.

The definition is variable but a good one is having scored a 4 or 5 on the ILR (Interagency Language Rountable) scale. I have scored a 4 on one foreign language and a 5 on another foreign language.....and luckily I spent two years living and speaking and doing research in both these languages so I can describe my work with ease.....but, I don't speak them as well as English and probably never will.

Check out the definitions here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale

And guys. Stop being so hard on our fellow applicants, sure there may be some goody goodies but I'm sure there are a lot of folks honestly thinking about this. Oh, and I studied German in school....not one of the four languages I will list, I will not list German, even though I have translation certificates in it. Good Luck!
 
justgo said:
Guys, I know that there are likely a lot of folks who list languages that they can't speak that well, and I'm sure those of us that DO speak those languages well feel anger toward them.....BUT, fluent does NOT mean that you speak it as well as what you consider your "native" language.

The definition is variable but a good one is having scored a 4 or 5 on the ILR (Interagency Language Rountable) scale. I have scored a 4 on one foreign language and a 5 on another foreign language.....and luckily I spent two years living and speaking and doing research in both these languages so I can describe my work with ease.....but, I don't speak them as well as English and probably never will.

Check out the definitions here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale

And guys. Stop being so hard on our fellow applicants, sure there may be some goody goodies but I'm sure there are a lot of folks honestly thinking about this. Oh, and I studied German in school....not one of the four languages I will list, I will not list German, even though I have translation certificates in it. Good Luck!
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Doesn't matter what you think "fluent" means, or what your dictionary or wikipedia says. It matters what adcoms think fluent means. And those of us a bit further down this round are telling you that they consider languages you list to be languages you can speak well. Period. And, as proof of this, they have been known to pair such interviewees with interviewers who are native speakers (effectively calling their bluff). If you can't do your interview in Spanish, don't say you are fluent in spanish. Don't whine that wiki says otherwise. Wiki never got anyone into med school.
 
ksmi117 said:
Are you fluent? There's your answer.
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This.

I am not fluent, but am pretty capable in Spanish. I did not put that as a second language, but mentioned it in some of my experiences. For example I worked in an area where I had to communicate with customers entirely in Spanish, and also have translated while shadowing. Still, I struggle with accurate conjugations sometimes, and it would be a rough experience trying to do an interview entirely in Spanish. Don't put a second language if you wouldn't be comfortable doing an hour long interview in that language.
 
Law2Doc said:
Doesn't matter what you think "fluent" means, or what your dictionary or wikipedia says. It matters what adcoms think fluent means. And those of us a bit further down this round are telling you that they consider languages you list to be languages you can speak well. Period. And, as proof of this, they have been known to pair such interviewees with interviewers who are native speakers (effectively calling their bluff). If you can't do your interview in Spanish, don't say you are fluent in spanish. Don't whine that wiki says otherwise. Wiki never got anyone into med school.
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Someone's angry.
 
Law2Doc said:
Doesn't matter what you think "fluent" means, or what your dictionary or wikipedia says. It matters what adcoms think fluent means. And those of us a bit further down this round are telling you that they consider languages you list to be languages you can speak well. Period. And, as proof of this, they have been known to pair such interviewees with interviewers who are native speakers (effectively calling their bluff). If you can't do your interview in Spanish, don't say you are fluent in spanish. Don't whine that wiki says otherwise. Wiki never got anyone into med school.
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Though it may have gotten people through med school. :laugh:
 
cheesier said:
Someone's angry.
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Yeah thanks....so much anger! Really if you want to go to a more official site than wiki go here: www.govtilr.org

These tests are only administered by governmental agencies, so it is a pretty damn official delineation of what is "fluent" and what is not. You must work for one of these agencies to take the test....so I've been down a few roads myself.

My whole point is the definition of "fluent" is variable, but fluent does not = native. I'm not concerned for myself. I absolutely can give my interview in the 4 languages I will list (though one of these languages I KNOW none of my interviewers will speak). If they want to interview me in Spanish, bring it on. But I also don't think folks should sell themselves short because someone on SDN told them that fluency means you speak it as you do English.

I'm trying to be the nicer side of SDN, no need to get feisty.
 
justgo said:
Yeah thanks....so much anger! Really if you want to go to a more official site than wiki go here: www.govtilr.org

These tests are only administered by governmental agencies, so it is a pretty damn official delineation of what is "fluent" and what is not. You must work for one of these agencies to take the test....so I've been down a few roads myself.

My whole point is the definition of "fluent" is variable, but fluent does not = native. I'm not concerned for myself. I absolutely can give my interview in the 4 languages I will list (though one of these languages I KNOW none of my interviewers will speak). If they want to interview me in Spanish, bring it on. But I also don't think folks should sell themselves short because someone on SDN told them that fluency means you speak it as you do English.

I'm trying to be the nicer side of SDN, no need to get feisty.
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Not angry -- just trying to correct folks before they get themselves into trouble, something I have striven to do on multiple threads since I began on SDN.

Again, none of these sites you link matter one iota. The only definition of fluency that matters for purposes of this process is that which the adcoms themselves use. So it doesn't matter if there is a worldwide moratorium on what the definition of "fluency" is -- if the perception of adcoms is that if you list yourself as fluent, you are holding yourself out as someone who speaks like a native, then that's really the only definition that matters. As mentioned above by multiple people, adcoms have been known to pair up folks who claim fluency with native speaker interviewers, who proceed to conduct the interview in that language. It has happened. So that pretty much shows that adcoms equate fluency with native speaking. And that's all you need to know when deciding to list something or not. Nobody cares if you are right about your definition of fluency when you list something, if you show up and can't hold up your end of the conversation. You still come off poorly. Nuff said.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not angry -- just trying to correct folks before they get themselves into trouble, something I have striven to do on multiple threads since I began on SDN.

Again, none of these sites you link matter one iota. The only definition of fluency that matters for purposes of this process is that which the adcoms themselves use. So it doesn't matter if there is a worldwide moratorium on what the definition of "fluency" is -- if the perception of adcoms is that if you list yourself as fluent, you are holding yourself out as someone who speaks like a native, then that's really the only definition that matters. As mentioned above by multiple people, adcoms have been known to pair up folks who claim fluency with native speaker interviewers, who proceed to conduct the interview in that language. It has happened. So that pretty much shows that adcoms equate fluency with native speaking. And that's all you need to know when deciding to list something or not. Nobody cares if you are right about your definition of fluency when you list something, if you show up and can't hold up your end of the conversation. You still come off poorly. Nuff said.
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So you don't think people should use tests to gauge their fluency? I think it's safer to assess yourself using a standard government language test than to speculate about whether or not you're at the level of a "native speaker".
 
cheesier said:
So you don't think people should use tests to gauge their fluency? I think it's safer to assess yourself using a standard government language test than to speculate about whether or not you're at the level of a "native speaker".
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How did you get that out of what Law2Doc said? It is reasonable to assume that adcoms interpret "fluency" as a level of speaking proficient enough to allow the practice of medicine and professional interaction in that language, and as such they frequently use foreign language interviews to assess whether an applicant was accurately representing their language skills to the extent they expect them to on their application. Outside definitions of fluency are all irrelevant to the simple fact that it absolutely will not matter if you are "fluent" to whatever degree by whatever scale if the interviewer you're matched with doesn't feel you're up to par with what they personally expected of you when they saw their language listed on your application. Think you can get around that? They likely won't even tell you during the interview if you've disappointed them with your language skills, and even if they did, what are you going to do? Inform them that their standards of fluency are incorrect? Good luck once you start arguing with your interviewer... This whole argument is pointless because Law2Doc is right as to the most logical and safest way to interpret what is expected. Do otherwise at your own risk.
 
gettheleadout said:
How did you get that out of what Law2Doc said? It is reasonable to assume that adcoms interpret "fluency" as a level of speaking proficient enough to allow the practice of medicine and professional interaction in that language, and as such they frequently use foreign language interviews to assess whether an applicant was accurately representing their language skills to the extent they expect them to on their application. Outside definitions of fluency are all irrelevant to the simple fact that it absolutely will not matter if you are "fluent" to whatever degree by whatever scale if the interviewer you're matched with doesn't feel you're up to par with what they personally expected of you when they saw their language listed on your application. Think you can get around that? They likely won't even tell you during the interview if you've disappointed them with your language skills, and even if they did, what are you going to do? Inform them that their standards of fluency are incorrect? Good luck once you start arguing with your interviewer... This whole argument is pointless because Law2Doc is right as to the most logical and safest way to interpret what is expected. Do otherwise at your own risk.
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This. The evaluation of a native speaker determines fluency, NOT some grammar test (or whatever). I don't care what some test told you. I've met people who believe they are only "80% fluent" because some crappy test told them that when, in fact, their fluency is on par with or better than MOST Americans! So they don't know when to use our subjunctive mood. (Neither do about 60% of Americans and probably 99% south of the Mason-Dixon line!) Likewise, just because some sh*tty test said you were "99% Native" doesn't mean ****. I've been evaluated as "Native Spanish Speaker" by multiple such tests. Yeah, right. Native my a**. Conversational? Yes. Fluent? Yes. Native? H*LL NO! I translate for patients and I have to find work-arounds to say things all the time. I manage quite well, but there's simply no way I am "natively fluent."
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
Hmm, is knowing another language that unique that they would go as far as to actually test it?
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It's not that hard to test, so why not? Many schools have been known to do this. Unless it's something ridiculously rare (e.g., spoken only by an isolated tribe in the Congo), there's probably someone on the adcom who speaks it at at least one of the schools to which you are applying. As a result, it's quite possible you'd be interviewed by said person and also quite possible that that person would decide to conduct at least part of the interview in the other language.
 
I know for UCI's PRIME LC program, anyone that applies to that is subject to at least a portion of the interview in Spanish, but that's only because that program is tailored to helping out the Latino community. If that is your focus/goal, I would assume that an interview in the language is fair game.

I would say that I have a conversational grasp of the language, but my medical terminology needs a bit of work. I have studied abroad and have taken multiple courses in the language, and have had actual interviews in Spanish. I'll be making sure to word my experience with the culture/language in a way to avoid ending up in a Spanish language interview. The process of interviewing is already stressful enough without having to worry about it being in a different language.
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
Hmm, is knowing another language that unique that they would go as far as to actually test it?
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As said above, for major languages there's often someone on the adcom or interviewing faculty who actually speaks a language (at least the major ones), so it's not like they have to go to great lengths. And to some extent they see it as doing you a favor to pair you up with someone who has this skill in common with you, much like if you state you have spent all your spare time researching cholesterol medications you probably will get paired with an interviewer who has similar interests/research. The goal is partly to let you showcase your talents or alternatively to fall on your face. Either way they get more information from which to make their decision, and that is really the goal of an interview -- to separate the stars from the posers.
 
Could you go to the country of that language and ask for 10 oranges, 2 pieces of beef, potatoes, letuce and half a pound of shrimp, and understand if the person there said there is no shrimp, but they have sardines?
 
Heck, where I'm from saying you speak english IS saying you speak a foreign language.
 
Law2Doc said:
As said above, for major languages there's often someone on the adcom or interviewing faculty who actually speaks a language (at least the major ones), so it's not like they have to go to great lengths. And to some extent they see it as doing you a favor to pair you up with someone who has this skill in common with you, much like if you state you have spent all your spare time researching cholesterol medications you probably will get paired with an interviewer who has similar interests/research. The goal is partly to let you showcase your talents or alternatively to fall on your face. Either way they get more information from which to make their decision, and that is really the goal of an interview -- to separate the stars from the posers.
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Hmm, that actually doesn't sound too bad. Considering I am fluent in Russian I am pretty sure they will have 0 issues in finding an interviewer that is one as well. :laugh:

Oh well, if anything if it actually works in your favor then that's cool. The only other places where knowing another language was brought up was during undergraduate application and when I was applying towards a job, mind you it was cashier position, haha 🙄, but in neither of those cases did it feel like it really made me stood out as an applicant or anything. It was mostly a "Oh, that's cool." So it's kind of nice for a change knowing that you can actually benefit from it more.
 
So I know I'm not applying this cycle (one more cycle to go 🙂), but I had a few questions.

In terms of second languages, I'd say I'm fluent in Castilian Spanish as well as Russian. The only problem is that, while I've studied Spanish in high school as well as college and have developed not only fluency but also correctness, my Russian is at a heritage-speaker level: I know it, I speak it, I understand it, but what I say isn't always correct or proper, and my vocabulary lacks normal jargon/I tend to speak a bit more "childishly" than is normal, due to how I learned it. Would listing these as "fluent in written and spoken Spanish" and "fluent in spoken Russian" sort of cover my proficiency level in both?

Also, Latino health is something I've developed an immense interest in doing as my career, and is one of the major reasons I chose to be a Spanish major (apart from the fact that I love Spanish itself). However, I haven't had the opportunity to do anything evidencing this: my college/area of residence is completely devoid of Latino populations. Would it seem weird/unsupported to focus on Latino/community health in my PS/general application if I don't actually have activities in that specific area? Sorry for the unrelatedness of my last question 🙄!
 
apumic said:
This. The evaluation of a native speaker determines fluency, NOT some grammar test (or whatever). I don't care what some test told you. I've met people who believe they are only "80% fluent" because some crappy test told them that when, in fact, their fluency is on par with or better than MOST Americans! So they don't know when to use our subjunctive mood. (Neither do about 60% of Americans and probably 99% south of the Mason-Dixon line!) Likewise, just because some sh*tty test said you were "99% Native" doesn't mean ****. I've been evaluated as "Native Spanish Speaker" by multiple such tests. Yeah, right. Native my a**. Conversational? Yes. Fluent? Yes. Native? H*LL NO! I translate for patients and I have to find work-arounds to say things all the time. I manage quite well, but there's simply no way I am "natively fluent."
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Dude, you're in Missouri. Missouri as just as redneck as any other state in the south.
 
You can also say that you're conversationally fluent somewhere else on your app, if you're at all involved in communities that primarily speak your listed languages.

For instance, I'm conversationally fluent in Japanese, but could not pass JLPT2 to save my life. The written component would slaughter me, as I'm 4 years out of practice.
 
My experience with this is that I am "fluent" in Spanish. I took AP Spanish in high school, spent a lot of time in Mexico as an undergrad, and I have traveled extensively through Central and South America. This being said, my Spanish gets really rusty if I go for a few months without using it often, but if I travel to a Spanish-speaking country, my fluency returns in a few days.

I listed fluency in Spanish on my AMCAS, and I had a few interviewers comment that Spanish speaking ability is crucial for future physicians, but no one spoke to me in Spanish beyond Coma Estas? If they had, I would have stumbled a bit, and then explained what I just wrote in the beginning of this post. I do not think if I stumbled in conversational Spanish that they would have thought "game over". That is just stupid, and anyone whom has ever studied a second language understands how quickly one gets rusty and also how quickly language skills return with practice.
 
Myuu said:
You can also say that you're conversationally fluent somewhere else on your app, if you're at all involved in communities that primarily speak your listed languages.

For instance, I'm conversationally fluent in Japanese, but could not pass JLPT2 to save my life. The written component would slaughter me, as I'm 4 years out of practice.
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there is no written component 😉
but cool! i'm not fluent, but i can handle most situations in japanese. i'm taking jlpt2 in july... we'll see how it goes.
 
capn jazz said:
there is no written component 😉
but cool! i'm not fluent, but i can handle most situations in japanese. i'm taking jlpt2 in july... we'll see how it goes.
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Written as in kanji identification in the context of sentences. My kanji suck to the 9th circle of hell right now.:cry:
 
I was interviewed in Spanish at a job interview. It turns out the personnel guy had gone to the same college I did and we talked about mutual friends, nothing of great import or technical. I got the job.
 
Myuu said:
Written as in kanji identification in the context of sentences. My kanji suck to the 9th circle of hell right now.:cry:
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I wish I knew Kanji, So far my Japanese is Hiragani and romanji 🙁 And not a lot of it. I'd love to be fluent some day!
 
The only problem I think I would face is the fact that I am fluent in Russian only from the communication and writing perspective. The only experience I have with medicine, science, etc. was in the English and technically Latin form. Hopefully, just because you are fluent, they don't expect you to have studies all your classes in the language you are fluent in.

Organic Chemistry in English was already a pain in the butt, the least of my worries was finding translation for all the mechanism. I was focusing more on the grade than multilingual interpretation of it.

Hope adcoms are a reasonable/logical bunch. 🙁
 
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