Scheduling Derm Rotations?

[PremedSurvivor]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate help trying to schedule advanced electives/ away rotations for derm.

1. are April and May too early for my home derm rotations? Aka would letter writers remember me come fall, after other students rotate in June/ July?

2. Since the SID derm conference is coming up in May, would it be a poor idea to rotate then? I'm assuming attendings will be busy focusing on finalizing research.

3. These two would be my first derm rotations after a research year and I don't want to botch them up. Should I do a different subject first to ease back into clinical skills?
My concern is pushing the rotations later may mean a greater amount of students rotating at the same time, and hence, less interaction with the attending?

4. I've heard that July a poor time to rotate because that's when fresh residents come in and they'll be too busy trying to get a hang of things to really teach (which is totally understandable). Any truth to this?

5. Do people generally get letters from away rotations? Any recommendations for when to schedule them? (I.e. Before or after home?)

Thanks in advance!

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[asmallchild]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate help trying to schedule advanced electives/ away rotations for derm.

1. are April and May too early for my home derm rotations? Aka would letter writers remember me come fall, after other students rotate in June/ July?

2. Since the SID derm conference is coming up in May, would it be a poor idea to rotate then? I'm assuming attendings will be busy focusing on finalizing research.

3. These two would be my first derm rotations after a research year and I don't want to botch them up. Should I do a different subject first to ease back into clinical skills?
My concern is pushing the rotations later may mean a greater amount of students rotating at the same time, and hence, less interaction with the attending?

4. I've heard that July a poor time to rotate because that's when fresh residents come in and they'll be too busy trying to get a hang of things to really teach (which is totally understandable). Any truth to this?

5. Do people generally get letters from away rotations? Any recommendations for when to schedule them? (I.e. Before or after home?)

Thanks in advance!

1) Yes, I would time your home derm rotation for July or August as the new 1st year residents start then. At my program, the 1st year residents carried the strongest votes amongst all the residents since they were the ones who would be the senior residents for the students should they match (e.g. they would be 3rd years when the med students start their first year in dermatology)

2) see #1

3) I don't think you would need any rotations prior to starting your home derm rotation. Most student rotations are still more of an observational rotation as opposed to a true sub-I rotation

4) This is true. August would be an ideal month as it gives the new 1st years a month to acclimate. That being said, see $5

5) Yes, most away rotations understand students need letters and will write them for you after a brief rotation. That being said, if you have a stronger letter (e.g. your PI from your research year) from someone who knew you over a longer period of time, that will be more meaningful. But by all means, collect all the letters first and then decide which ones to use come application time.

Many programs now will require that you complete a home rotation before embarking on aways. If you are going to do multiple aways and that requirement isn't in place however, this is my preferred method: I would do an away rotation in July at a place I'm not crazy about just to get my feet wet in dermatology. I would then do a rotation at home in August and really try to shine (since statistically, you are most likely to match at your home program). And then I would do an away rotation at a dream program remembering to maintain my enthusiasm throughout (it is difficult after 2+ months of observational rotations)

 

[PremedSurvivor]

1) Yes, I would time your home derm rotation for July or August as the new 1st year residents start then. At my program, the 1st year residents carried the strongest votes amongst all the residents since they were the ones who would be the senior residents for the students should they match (e.g. they would be 3rd years when the med students start their first year in dermatology)

2) see #1

3) I don't think you would need any rotations prior to starting your home derm rotation. Most student rotations are still more of an observational rotation as opposed to a true sub-I rotation

4) This is true. August would be an ideal month as it gives the new 1st years a month to acclimate. That being said, see $5

5) Yes, most away rotations understand students need letters and will write them for you after a brief rotation. That being said, if you have a stronger letter (e.g. your PI from your research year) from someone who knew you over a longer period of time, that will be more meaningful. But by all means, collect all the letters first and then decide which ones to use come application time.

Many programs now will require that you complete a home rotation before embarking on aways. If you are going to do multiple aways and that requirement isn't in place however, this is my preferred method: I would do an away rotation in July at a place I'm not crazy about just to get my feet wet in dermatology. I would then do a rotation at home in August and really try to shine (since statistically, you are most likely to match at your home program). And then I would do an away rotation at a dream program remembering to maintain my enthusiasm throughout (it is difficult after 2+ months of observational rotations)

Thank you for the detailed response! So I just want to confirm, because our home program has a beginning and advanced derm rotations (I.e. 2 rotations that are 1 month each) and we are strongly encouraged to do both. Wouldn't starting in July be a bit late, since applications are due in September?

And should I do something else in april and May, if that is too early for the home?

 

[asmallchild]

Thank you for the detailed response! So I just want to confirm, because our home program has a beginning and advanced derm rotations (I.e. 2 rotations that are 1 month each) and we are strongly encouraged to do both. Wouldn't starting in July be a bit late, since applications are due in September?

And should I do something else in april and May, if that is too early for the home?

Do they recommend both the beginning and advanced derm rotations to MS4s?

Or is the beginning meant for MS3s and the advanced for MS4s?

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Do they recommend both the beginning and advanced derm rotations to MS4s?

Or is the beginning meant for MS3s and the advanced for MS4s?

Both the beginning and the advanced are for MS4s. I was thinking possibly May-June for each. My struggle is balancing between the attendings likely being busy during May for SID, not doing it too early so as not to be forgotten, and not waiting till the last minute when many students rotate and there is less time with each attending/ little time left for other aways.

 

[PatsyStone]

I just want to point out that almost no one goes to SID. It is a great conference (I’ve gone before), but I wouldn’t forgo an away rotation in May because of it.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

I just want to point out that almost no one goes to SID. It is a great conference (I’ve gone before), but I wouldn’t forgo an away rotation in May because of it.

Got it, thanks so much. I wasn't familiar with it so your feedback is very helpful.

 

[MilkIsGood]

why are you against doing a rotation in july. that is the most important month to do your home rotation. new residents (who will be your chief residents) are starting and they are the most important residents you need to know. you also get to sit in on the intro derm lectures that the new residents get, which helps you on your aways in aug and sept.

 

[asmallchild]

Both the beginning and the advanced are for MS4s. I was thinking possibly May-June for each. My struggle is balancing between the attendings likely being busy during May for SID, not doing it too early so as not to be forgotten, and not waiting till the last minute when many students rotate and there is less time with each attending/ little time left for other aways.

When does your MS4 year start? I thought they started in July?

If they are both required for MS4s, I would do the beginning rotation in June and then the advanced in July.

As others have mentioned, I don't think SID should factor into your rotation planning.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

why are you against doing a rotation in july. that is the most important month to do your home rotation. new residents (who will be your chief residents) are starting and they are the most important residents you need to know. you also get to sit in on the intro derm lectures that the new residents get, which helps you on your aways in aug and sept.

Because I've heard that the new residents are busy getting acclimated to the new environment so they don't have as much time to teach. Not sure how much merit there is to this, which is why I shared it here for feedback

 

[PremedSurvivor]

When does your MS4 year start? I thought they started in July?

If they are both required for MS4s, I would do the beginning rotation in June and then the advanced in July.

As others have mentioned, I don't think SID should factor into your rotation planning.

I'm coming back from a research year, so I'll be done by April

 

[asmallchild]

I'm coming back from a research year, so I'll be done by April

I understand, in that case I would get the beginning rotation done whenever you like (Apr/May/June) and go for the advanced rotation in July.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

I understand, in that case I would get the beginning rotation done whenever you like (Apr/May/June) and go for the advanced rotation in July.

Thank you for the rec! For my learning, any reason why wait to do the advanced in July? Wouldn't that limit your # of possible aways/ time to get a letter of rec?

 

[asmallchild]

Thank you for the rec! For my learning, any reason why wait to do the advanced in July? Wouldn't that limit your # of possible aways/ time to get a letter of rec?

I still think you should do one home rotation in July so that the new 1st year residents get to meet you.

IMO, it would be ideal to do it in August once those new residents have had a chance to get settled.

For those with a busy schedule trying to fit in multiple aways, that might not be an option. In which case, I would get the home rotation done in July and move onto the aways.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining!

 

[UndecidedM3]

To follow up on what was discussed above. I am currently in the process of scheduling my M4 year and had a question regarding how I should go about ordering my rotations.

Tentatively I am scheduled for:
June: Medicine sub I
July: Home derm rotation
August: Away 1
September: Home research month
Last week September/October: Away 2

I was wondering if I should reorder the above schedule. I was thinking it may be more beneficial to do my research month in June (so my project will be available for ERAS) and then do my subI in September. I was hoping to break up my 2 away rotations with a home rotation. Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[PatsyStone]

To follow up on what was discussed above. I am currently in the process of scheduling my M4 year and had a question regarding how I should go about ordering my rotations.

Tentatively I am scheduled for:
June: Medicine sub I
July: Home derm rotation
August: Away 1
September: Home research month
Last week September/October: Away 2

I was wondering if I should reorder the above schedule. I was thinking it may be more beneficial to do my research month in June (so my project will be available for ERAS) and then do my subI in September. I was hoping to break up my 2 away rotations with a home rotation. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Unless your school requires it, push back your sub-I until you have competed all
of your derm months. Prelim programs know derm applicants are solid; no one cares if you haven’t done your sub-I by the time you apply.

 

[RhesusPuffs]

What do you all think about doing my last derm rotation at end of october/beginning of november? Unfortunately due to my schedule, I may not be able to do my last derm rotation earlier than that. Will it be useless to do it that late?

 

[asmallchild]

What do you all think about doing my last derm rotation at end of october/beginning of november? Unfortunately due to my schedule, I may not be able to do my last derm rotation earlier than that. Will it be useless to do it that late?

It's been a while since I've done any of the ERAS or application stuff but I do remember doing a Derm rotation around that time. I don't think it will help with the application process since everything should be submitted already but it can help you individually at that program.

(If I recall correctly, I did a rotation in November of my MS4 year with an all star applicant on paper. He was quite different in person. He ended up doing so poorly that he eliminated himself from consideration at that program. And inadvertently, he made me look like a superstar despite being much worse on paper. I ended up matching at that program and finding this info out years later. The point being: rotations this late still matter. You want to take this one as seriously as your rotations in July)

 

[TMP-SMX]

They may interview you while you are there if you are out of state (or they may not). It depends on the program. Don't be shy. Put yourself out there.

 

[MrDoctorman]

What do you all think about doing my last derm rotation at end of october/beginning of november? Unfortunately due to my schedule, I may not be able to do my last derm rotation earlier than that. Will it be useless to do it that late?

Rotations matter all the way until the rank lists are submitted. I rotated at the program I ended up matching to in October and I know that was a big factor in why I matched there.