School list for a possible reapplicant

[CowboyNiceguy]

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I have a waitlist (maybe 2-3) that I could get accepted from this year, but I am starting to consider schools to apply to for next cycle. It would likely be my last application before moving on to a different career (expired MCAT after this one, I think) and I'm willing to apply to 25-40 schools. Willing to apply DO but I don't know if it will be low-yield for me. I'm an IL resident but would prefer to move to the NYC area or other east coast schools if possible.

3.9 GPA in an engineering major, 37 MCAT. Rural/underserved background. ~60hrs clinical volunteering, 3 semesters (~20hrs) volunteering in elementary education program, 50hrs shadowing, leadership role in a 1-2 organizations for a year(haven't decided if I should list one). 2 years bio research.

Activities between cycles: full time scribe for a year, ~30-40hrs non-clinical volunteering, and another clinical volunteering role while I scribe -- possibly hospice.

My understanding is that I will only be negatively viewed as a reapplicant to the schools that I previously applied to? So I am trying to choose as many new schools as possible. Also I have 3 LORs and they are all science, which can make me ineligible at some schools. I can possibly acquire a non-science but I don't know how great it would be. I haven't taken a non-science class in a few years.

Here is my list from the current cycle. I know I aimed too high with some schools, too low/low-yield with others, and some that were just not good fits.

Albert Einstein (Interviewed, HPWL)
Boston University
Case Western Reserve
Rosalind Franklin
George Washington
Harvard
Keck USC
Loyola
Mayo
MC Wisconsin
New York Medical - only sent primary, didn't foresee the non science LOR requirement in the secondary.
New York University (Interviewed, rejected)
Northwestern
Penn State
Rush
St. Louis
Thomas Jefferson
Stanford
Brown
Tufts
Tulane
Chicago-Pritzker
Illinois (Interviewed)
Iowa (Interviewed, final pool)
Miami
Michigan
Pittsburgh
Washington University
Yale

And here is my tentative list for the next cycle. Any input is welcome. I tried to make it mostly new schools but I can reapply to some if I am a good fit and have enough improvement. Would TX schools be a waste of money? I've read that they like high MCATS in their OOS students but I don't know if it's true. I'm hoping to add ~10 schools to this.

Einstein
NYU
Illinois
Iowa
Hofstra
Mt Sinai
Columbia
Rochester
Stony Brook SUNY
Cornell
Wake Forest
Vanderbilt
Johns Hopkins
Virginia
Texas Southwestern
Wayne State
Emory
Ohio State
Creighton

 

[Optimus-Prime]

I'd throw in some more well regarded state schools, you can with your stats. Just tricky with such a good MCAT, did you contact the schools about what to work on??

Def apply to every school in IL, USUHS may be a good backup if your willing

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

I'd throw in some more well regarded state schools, you can with your stats. Just tricky with such a good MCAT, did you contact the schools about what to work on??

Def apply to every school in IL, USUHS may be a good backup if your willing

What state schools do you have in mind? Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, and Indiana seem like decent choices.

I did not contact schools but I think my weakness is volunteering and clinical experience, which I am working on.

I could add more IL schools to the list. Maybe Loyola, Northwestern, and University of Chicago? I'm outside the 10-90% at Rosalind Franklin and I am a poor fit for Rush. SIU has a 4-LOR requirement, so I will apply there if I get the fourth letter for next cycle.

I have considered Bethesda, but I'll have to put more thought into it. I would prefer not to if I can get into another MD school.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

What state schools do you have in mind? Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, and Indiana seem like decent choices.

I did not contact schools but I think my weakness is volunteering and clinical experience, which I am working on.

I could add more IL schools to the list. Maybe Loyola, Northwestern, and University of Chicago? I'm outside the 10-90% at Rosalind Franklin and I am a poor fit for Rush. SIU has a 4-LOR requirement, so I will apply there if I get the fourth letter for next cycle.

I have considered Bethesda, but I'll have to put more thought into it. I would prefer not to if I can get into another MD school.

Def UMASS, Michigan, maybe BU? You'll have to check MSAR for the others and see how many OOS they accept. If your not hurting for $$$ def throw an app at UChicago and Northwestern.

you might consider UMD, they're a little more OOS friendly. Is Wisconsin?

You could always throw an app at Bethesda, its free and you won't have to make a decision until next May. I really don't know how to predict your DO chances

The only thing I see on your app is average clinical experience, by no means poor.

I'd def think about emailing UIC, Iowa, and NYU just to see what they say.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

also for UT southwestern, you have to do the TMDSAS application might as well apply to all of the TX schools its cheap, ~$150

 

[GrapesofRath]

If you only got 4 IIs out of that school list with a 3.9/37 there are factors beyond academics that are likely hurting you that you should resolve before reapplying. In particular, just through a cursory glance the lack of service and clinical experience were likely problematic and while you certainly have more clinical experience, the service to the less fortunate is still rather light. It's tempting to just blame the school list because its a very easy fix, but the real issue is likely deeper than that.

Of course none of this matters if you have get off one of these waitlists you are on.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

Def UMASS, Michigan, maybe BU? You'll have to check MSAR for the others and see how many OOS they accept. If your not hurting for $$$ def throw an app at UChicago and Northwestern.

you might consider UMD, they're a little more OOS friendly. Is Wisconsin?

You could always throw an app at Bethesda, its free and you won't have to make a decision until next May. I really don't know how to predict your DO chances

The only thing I see on your app is average clinical experience, by no means poor.

I'd def think about emailing UIC, Iowa, and NYU just to see what they say.

Wisconsin requires a non-academic LOR and their OOS numbers are not great. 4300 apps, 213 interviews, 38 matriculants. BU is ~800/1000 interviewed. Maryland is around 4000 OOS apps, 300 interviews, 150 accepted, 40 matriculated. Seems not bad but not great either.

NYU was a post-interview rejection so I could contact them. Iowa is probably releasing final pool decisions in the next week, so I can't really contact them yet. Haven't heard anything from UIC so I am waiting for a decision before asking for feedback.

If you only got 4 IIs out of that school list with a 3.9/37 there are factors beyond academics that are likely hurting you that you should resolve before reapplying. In particular, just through a cursory glance the lack of service and clinical experience were likely problematic and while you certainly have more clinical experience, the service to the less fortunate is still rather light. It's tempting to just blame the school list because its a very easy fix, but the real issue is likely deeper than that.

Of course none of this matters if you have get off one of these waitlists you are on.

Well yes, obviously my academics are not holding me back. I'm volunteering as much as I can this semester but there is a real limit to how much I can do while I'm in school. Can't change my past semesters. I appreciate the feedback though.

I'm not suggesting that my list is the only problem, but it was certainly suboptimal and it is the easiest thing to fix. If we can immediately eliminate the low-yield schools and the top 10s (which is not an entirely accurate assumption), then I'm looking at ~4/15 interviews which is not that bad.

I'm not going to take another year off and study for the new MCAT to apply later -- I would rather go to grad school at that point.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well yes, obviously my academics are not holding me back. I'm volunteering as much as I can this semester but there is a real limit to how much I can do while I'm in school. Can't change my past semesters. I appreciate the feedback though.

I'm not suggesting that my list is the only problem, but it was certainly suboptimal and it is the easiest thing to fix. If we can immediately eliminate the low-yield schools and the top 10s (which is not an entirely accurate assumption), then I'm looking at ~4/15 interviews which is not that bad.

I'm not going to take another year off and study for the new MCAT to apply later -- I would rather go to grad school at that point.

I really do hope one of the waitlists works out for you(it sounds like Einstein definitely could), because otherwise you are in a somewhat tricky spot.

You honestly probably dont want to hear this but your school list wasnt an issue last time. You had over a dozen schools you had a fair shot at a II for; that's plenty for someone with your stats usually. Fix what's broken in your app, which isnt the school list even though that's the tempting solution since its such an easy fix.

Ill leave you with this.
a) Reapplying without fixing your deficits is gambling. If you want to do it anyway go ahead. But realize you are doing that precisely; gambling.
b) Many schools will accept a 2014 MCAT for the 2017-18 cycle. Here's the list. So the "Ill have to retake the MCAT" logic for not wanting to wait doesnt hold much water unless we are talking about say some really old MCAT like from 2012-13.
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/398586/data/mcatexampolicy.pdf

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

I'll be reapplying with more volunteer and clinical experience. What else are you suggesting?

 

[abcdeffedcba]

.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

If you're wanting to go to NYC, what about adding Cornell? You got the other big 3 on your list. And if you're going to add Virginia, what about VCU?

 

[SurgeonOfLife]

.

 

[ortnakas]

As far as DO programs go:

There are a few DO schools in the general New York area-- NYITCOM and Touro. LECOM has a few rotation sites near NYC for years 3-4, although there's no way to guarantee you'd get them going in. PCOM (Philadelphia) and UNECOM (Maine) are other solid programs toward the north end of the east coast. And if you were interested in staying in Illinois, CCOM is a great program, albeit an expensive one.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

If you're wanting to go to NYC, what about adding Cornell? You got the other big 3 on your list. And if you're going to add Virginia, what about VCU?

Cornell should be on my list. I remember looking at it specifically but somehow it got excluded. I excluded VCU just by the numbers. 464 interviews from 7487 OOS applicants is pretty low. But I suppose it's worth reconsidering if I would be a good fit, or if looking at these numbers is not as useful as I think it is.

Also, don't mention that you are a re-applicant in your interviews unless they bring it up or unless it happens to be a strategic move in some circumstance (which I don't know what that would be). I never brought it up and it seems all my interviewers didn't know I was a re-applicant. Some schools to which you did not apply last year may not have the logistics set up to flag re-applicants anyways. However, still be prepared for questions like "why do you think you didn't get in last cycle?" or "How did you improve?"

Good luck and hope you're accepted off the waitlist soon! 🙂

This is encouraging. I'm hoping with some improvement in my app, the schools that I interviewed at would consider me again. I wouldn't plan on bringing up my reapplicant status at other schools unless asked about it, but it seems like it would be obvious and I wouldn't want to seem like I'm trying to hide it?

As far as DO programs go:

There are a few DO schools in the general New York area-- NYITCOM and Touro. LECOM has a few rotation sites near NYC for years 3-4, although there's no way to guarantee you'd get them going in. PCOM (Philadelphia) and UNECOM (Maine) are other solid programs toward the north end of the east coast. And if you were interested in staying in Illinois, CCOM is a great program, albeit an expensive one.

Do you think it makes sense for me to apply DO? I'm open to it, but I don't know if they would give me a chance due to my high numbers.

 

[ortnakas]

Do you think it makes sense for me to apply DO? I'm open to it, but I don't know if they would give me a chance due to my high numbers.

I don't think DO schools throw away high-number applications immediately like SDN seems to believe. That said, if you decide to apply DO it'll be important to make your application show you actually want it (assuming that that is true)-- so I'd recommend doing a good job tailoring your personal statement, try to get a bit of DO shadowing, and a DO letter if possible. With your numbers, I think they'll kind of know they're a back-up plan, but if you illustrate that being a physician is what's important to you and that you don't view DOs as second-rate, you have a solid chance.

 

[LizzyM]

Def UMASS

Unless you were born there, your parents live there and you graduated HS there (and by that I mean not a carpet bagger from NY who attended boarding school there), do NOT apply to UMASS. It is among the most OOS unfriendly schools.

 

[chillaxbro]

Medical school applications are such bull****

 

[Goro]

No DO school is low yield. We don't think that way. But get a DO LOR, it will help. Start your list with DMU, CCOM and mUCOM

Willing to apply DO but I don't know if it will be low-yield for me.

You still seem weak on ECs, especially when aiming for the moon.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!


If you're going to try again for particular schools, you'll need to improve your app significantly
My understanding is that I will only be negatively viewed as a reapplicant to the schools that I previously applied to?

Take a non-science course now and get the LOR!
Also I have 3 LORs and they are all science, which can make me ineligible at some schools. I can possibly acquire a non-science but I don't know how great it would be. I haven't taken a non-science class in a few years.

Suggest contacting Admissions deans at the schools that rejected you for feedback on the rejections.
Here is my list from the current cycle. I know I aimed too high with some schools, too low/low-yield with others, and some that were just not good fits.

I suggest:

Boston University
Case Western Reserve
George Washington
Harvard
Mayo
MC Wisconsin
New York Medical
Northwestern
Rush
Thomas Jefferson
Stanford
Tufts
Tulane
Chicago-Pritzker
Illinois (Interviewed)
Miami
Michigan
Pittsburgh
Washington University
Yale

Hofstra
Mt Sinai
Columbia
Rochester
Stony Brook SUNY
Cornell
Wake Forest
Vanderbilt
Johns Hopkins
Virginia
Emory
Ohio State
IU
U WI
Gtown
U VT
VCU

 

[McSpicy]

Your school list isn't the problem. You need to beef up the ECs tremendously before you reapply.

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

.

Thanks. I am currently doing ~4hrs/wk at the humane society. I know I'm not directly serving people there (usually), but I hope it's worth something. I feel like I get to make more of a difference there, compared to volunteering in a hospital for example. And the educational program I'm doing has limited hours available, but I'm passionate about it.

Unfortunately it's too late for me to take a non-science class now. And I just looked through my transcript and realized I've only taken 4 total...wow. I'll work on getting an LOR.

Your school list isn't the problem. You need to beef up the ECs tremendously before you reapply.

Again, I'm aware that my ECs are not great but I would be a fool to go into an app cycle without trying to improve the list AND my application. I can do both. I'm volunteering as much as I can before next cycle and I'll be working as a scribe and volunteering in the gap year. This is assuming I don't get off my HPWL or get accepted from one of the other two schools. And I'm simply not willing to take an entire year off to improve my application before applying again.

 

[LizzyM]

And I'm simply not willing to take an entire year off to improve my application before applying again.

This may be your downfall. Everyone is already looking at your numbers and saying, "Why is this guy a reapplicant?" If your application is not significantly different in the area where you were weakest (ECs), then reapplying without a serious improvement in ECs is a waste of your money and our time (yours and the adcoms where you apply).

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Have you considered consulting an admissions expert?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

This may be your downfall. Everyone is already looking at your numbers and saying, "Why is this guy a reapplicant?" If your application is not significantly different in the area where you were weakest (ECs), then reapplying without a serious improvement in ECs is a waste of your money and our time (yours and the adcoms where you apply).

Then I guess I'm not sure at what point it becomes "significant." I'll have a new volunteer experience and a continuation of an old one from this current school year. I'm also involved in a club at my school related to my hobby, and I have previous club involvements, but I did not list those in the OP. Then when I move in May, I will begin working as a scribe and I will begin a new volunteer activity.

There is still a very real chance that I will be accepted this year. And it doesn't make sense to me to take a year off just to volunteer more (which I will be doing anyway) if I came close to being accepted in the previous cycle and have some improvement.

I have no student loans so cost of applying isn't really an issue. If anything, I would consider the potential extra year of working as a doctor as money made in the long run.

Have you considered consulting an admissions expert?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

No, I am not aware of these services. What do they do, exactly?

 

[deleted642188]

I suggest for you U Miami, baylor, A handful of UTs if you're down for it. Wake Forest, Georgetown, The Philly Triplets.

Good luck!!

edit: Alos do your state schools and Wayne State, I skimmed over your OP and if you have worked with the underserved especially Rural, then try Wright State and TCMC and Quinnipiac

 

[LizzyM]

@CowboyNiceguy What I heard you say is that you applied with:

~60hrs clinical volunteering
3 semesters (~20hrs) volunteering in elementary education program
50hrs shadowing
leadership role in a 1-2 organizations for a year(haven't decided if I should list one).
2 years bio research.

I interpret, "activities between cycles" to mean what you intend to do in the coming year after applying in June 2016, specifically
full time scribe
~30-40hrs non-clinical volunteering,
another clinical volunteering role -- possibly hospice

Those underlined items are what will be new in your application. In four years of college you did 80 hours of volunteer work or approximately 20 hours per year. It seems like you plan to kick it up a notch by adding 40+ hours which is good but not really impressive and looks like box checking. Working full-time as a scribe is a job that is popular with pre-meds and isn't going to help or hurt.

I do hope you get some luck with the schools where you've already been interviewed because I don't see you as a very attractive reapplicant.

 

[Goro]

Agree 1000% with my learned colleague. Of my SDN advisees who have gotten into top schools, they have 100s of hours of volunteering...mid to high three figures.

Stas get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.

@CowboyNiceguy What I heard you say is that you applied with:

~60hrs clinical volunteering
3 semesters (~20hrs) volunteering in elementary education program
50hrs shadowing
leadership role in a 1-2 organizations for a year(haven't decided if I should list one).
2 years bio research.

I interpret, "activities between cycles" to mean what you intend to do in the coming year after applying in June 2016, specifically
full time scribe
~30-40hrs non-clinical volunteering,
another clinical volunteering role -- possibly hospice

Those underlined items are what will be new in your application. In four years of college you did 80 hours of volunteer work or approximately 20 hours per year. It seems like you plan to kick it up a notch by adding 40+ hours which is good but not really impressive and looks like box checking. Working full-time as a scribe is a job that is popular with pre-meds and isn't going to help or hurt.

I do hope you get some luck with the schools where you've already been interviewed because I don't see you as a very attractive reapplicant.

 

[deleted642188]

Agree 1000% with my learned colleague. Of my SDN advisees who have gotten into top schools, they have 100s of hours of volunteering...mid to high three figures.

Stas get you to the door, but ECs get you through the door.

So what should OP do during a gap year if scribing is nothing special?

 

[Goro]

Service to others (humans) less fortunate than himself. And off campus.

So what should OP do during a gap year if scribing is nothing special?

 

[CowboyNiceguy]

@CowboyNiceguy What I heard you say is that you applied with:

~60hrs clinical volunteering
3 semesters (~20hrs) volunteering in elementary education program
50hrs shadowing
leadership role in a 1-2 organizations for a year(haven't decided if I should list one).
2 years bio research.

I interpret, "activities between cycles" to mean what you intend to do in the coming year after applying in June 2016, specifically
full time scribe
~30-40hrs non-clinical volunteering,
another clinical volunteering role -- possibly hospice

Those underlined items are what will be new in your application. In four years of college you did 80 hours of volunteer work or approximately 20 hours per year. It seems like you plan to kick it up a notch by adding 40+ hours which is good but not really impressive and looks like box checking. Working full-time as a scribe is a job that is popular with pre-meds and isn't going to help or hurt.

I do hope you get some luck with the schools where you've already been interviewed because I don't see you as a very attractive reapplicant.

I guess I wasn't clear. The ~40hrs volunteering is this current semester. The scribe and additional volunteering (maybe 6-8hrs/week) would be in the gap year.

I wish I had more volunteer hours earlier in college but I didn't realize how important they were, and I could not possibly maintain my grades and do research (nearly 1000 hours) and get high 3 digits of hours of volunteering. I am not a good engineer.