School list help / WAMC: (516 MCAT, 3.87 GPA, ORM, re-applicant)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

sunil2rao

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
Hi! I am a re-applicant, looking for help with my school list. Below are my stats and schools list. Please provide your feedback
  • Re-applicant.
  • 3.87 GPA
  • MCAT: 516 (128/128/128/132)
  • IL resident (studied at Ohio State, trad/1 gap yr)
  • ORM (Indian Male)
  • Clinical experience: ~2000 hrs CNA, ~150 hrs as a scribe
  • Research experience: ~2000 hrs as a research assistant, Published thesis as an undergrad
  • Shadowing experience and specialties represented: 100 hrs
  • Non-clinical volunteering: 1500+ hrs – Neuroscience Ambassador, Tutor, Red Cross, food bank, local community organizations
School List

CategoryCollegeLocationMCAT
2CWRUcleveland519
2EmoryAtlanta
2NorthwesternChicago520
2MichiganAnn Arbor, MI518
2PittPittsburg518
3Ohio StateColumbus, OH516
3Albert EinsteinBronx, NY516
3Geisel School of Medicine at DartmouthNH516
3University of Rochester School of Medicine and DentistryNY517
4ColoradoAurora, CO515
4Medical College WisconsinWisconsin511
4Oakland University William BeaumontRochester, MI511
4CincinnatiCincinnati, OH516
4Iowaiowa city516
4Univ of WisconsinMadison511
4virginia commonwealthrichmond514
4Univ of Miamimiami515
4SLUSt. Louis514
4UtahSalt Lake513
4western michigankalamazoo515
4Florida atlanticboca rotan, FL515
4Hackensack Meridian School of MedicineNutley, NJ515
4Frank H. Netter MD School of Medicine at Quinnipiac UniversityHamden, CT514
4ToledoToledo510
4Eastern Virginia Medical SchoolNorfolk, VA512
4West Virginia University School of MedicineWest Virginia512
4Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of VermontVermont512
4Wake Forest University School of MedicineNC512
4CreightonOmaha, NE515
4Indiana University school of medicineIndiana
5UCForlando515
5UICchicago512
5Carle IllinoisUrbana, IL515
5Wright State University Boonshoft School of MedicineDayton Ohio
6DrexelPhilly512
6LoyolaChicago512
6New York Medical CollegeNY516
6Rushchicago510
6Thomas Jeffersonphilly515
6Tuftsboston515
6Tulanenew orleans512
6Albany Medical CollegeNY510
6George Washington University School of Medicine and Health SciencesDC512
6Georgetown University School of MedicineDC514
6Boston University Aram V. Chobanian & Edward Avedisian School of MedicineBoston518
6penn stateHershey, PA

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Please break down your hours by activity.

It would also help to know what your mission fit is.
Volunteering activity break down:
  1. Neuro Ambassador: 300
  2. Tutoring: 400
  3. Red Cross: 100
  4. Food Bank: 50
  5. Religious organization: 500
Specialties Shadowed: neurology, internal medicine, nephrology, orthopedics, sports medicine, surgery, cardiology.

Does this answer your question? Not sure what mission fit means.

Thanks and regards,
 
Nope. None
I suggest these schools with your stats:
U Illinois
Southern Illinois (if you are from central or southern Illinois)
Loyola
Rush
Rosalind Franklin
Iowa
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Ohio State
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Creighton
TCU
Tulane
USF Morsani
Miami
NOVA MD
Wake Forest
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
Georgetown
George Washington
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Pittsburgh
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
 
Volunteering activity break down:
  1. Neuro Ambassador: 300
  2. Tutoring: 400
  3. Red Cross: 100
  4. Food Bank: 50
  5. Religious organization: 500
So most of your hours is with your faith-based organization... what were you doing? Then you did a lot of tutoring.

In short, your non-clinical community service showing service orientation would be Red Cross (which could be clinical-adjacent but you don't say) and food bank. 150 hours is above the minimum threshold for most schools for service orientation, but your distribution of hours makes it appear to me that it's just something you could be doing to "check the box". Tutoring usually goes under "teaching" and does not count towards alleviating others' distress.

Mission fit, briefly, is the reason why you want to come to our school and why you fit our mission as a school/program.
 
So most of your hours is with your faith-based organization... what were you doing? Then you did a lot of tutoring.

In short, your non-clinical community service showing service orientation would be Red Cross (which could be clinical-adjacent but you don't say) and food bank. 150 hours is above the minimum threshold for most schools for service orientation, but your distribution of hours makes it appear to me that it's just something you could be doing to "check the box". Tutoring usually goes under "teaching" and does not count towards alleviating others' distress.

Mission fit, briefly, is the reason why you want to come to our school and why you fit our mission as a school/program.
At the faith based org, I have helped with fundraising events (raised over $500K in 4 years), volunteered in the running of free medical checkup and vaccination clinics, performed facility cleaning activities like mopping, pots and pan cleaning, vacuuming etc.
 
I have to admit that I still cannot fathom why you didn’t receive a single interview last cycle with those stats and experiences.
While the suggestions given by the SDN experts is generally beneficial such as improving activities/ personal statements/ mission/ fit etc…the simple but fatal flaw in your application that no one is talking about, but is (hopefully) going to be fixed in 2023-2024 cycle, is the minus points being given by all the adcoms for your Asian American race/ethnicity. Once med schools cannot consider those immutable characteristics based on the upcoming SCOTUS decision, your application will surely fetch interviews. So apply for this cycle with a positive mindset and you will surely be successful!

Also, when you have a moment, just look through some SDN posts in “Reapplicant threads”. You will see 4.0 and 527 and exemplary ORM students reapplying after a failed admissions cycle, and on the other hand, there are those successful applicants with far inferior scores, attributes and experiences as per their posts, trying to choose between 5-10 admissions includes top 10 med schools, and openly cheered on by Adcoms including here at SDN.

Unfortunately, it is the ORM/ Asian American meritorious students who have to prove their their “mission” and “motivation”. Or charitably speaking, the best responses to those ORM is that their application was unlucky and likely fell through a “crack”. Wow! that must be one big giant tectonic plate shift rather than a crack, if so many ORMs applications are falling repeatedly through that!
 
It would be interesting to see the OP's stats/activities used for the last cycle. It's conceivable they had little/no clinical experience, little/no shadowing, or weak interviewing skills. They've got decent stats and a broad list so I'm guessing one of these areas needs to be tuned up.
 
the simple but fatal flaw in your application that no one is talking about, but is (hopefully) going to be fixed in 2023-2024 cycle, is the minus points being given by all the adcoms for your Asian American race/ethnicity. Once med schools cannot consider those immutable characteristics based on the upcoming SCOTUS decision, your application will surely fetch interviews. So apply for this cycle with a positive mindset and you will surely be successful!
I've never seen "minus points" in any of the processes I've been involved with (that would be illegal). I've also worked with various admissions committees with a majority of ORM's (i.e., Asians and MENASA) as voting members.

I also do not have any optimism that things will "get better" once we hear from the SFFA cases soon.

So for the OP: have you done any outreach before applying with APAMSA chapter officers at the schools on your list (or similar affinity organizations that may appeal to your identity)?
 
Last edited:
I've never seen "minus points" in any of the processes I've been involved with (that would be illegal). I've also worked with various admissions committees with a majority of ORM's (i.e., Asians and MENASA) as voting members.
I appreciate the AAPI/MENA related ORM information provided by Mr.Smile12, and it further sheds light on the errors of misclassifying such a diverse demographic group into one simple “race box”.
The bottom line is that regardless of how one chooses to frame this argument (i.e giving minus points for ORMs or plus points for URMs), the fact remains that the medical school admissions is a “zero-sum” game. If race/ethnicity is going to be counted as a determinant for admissions, that means some people are going to get in and some people are going to be excluded- based on race.

The key tables from 2021-2022 for comparisons.

2021 Matriculant MCAT / GPA2022 Matriculant MCAT / GPA
White512.7 / 3.78512.6 / 3.79
Asian514.5 / 3.79514.4 / 3.80
Black or African American505.9 / 3.55505.7 / 3.55
Hispanic, Latino, or of Spanish Origin506.6 / 3.64506.1 / 3.62

Yes, ascribing plus or minus points based on race/ethnicity is unconstitutional. That is why the Affirmative Action arguments throughout SCOTUS history has been pretty close with 5 to 4 rulings from the justices, and never been a slam dunk for AA in the past. That is because race-based admissions does cause considerable consternation to the majority of people in this country regardless of their political persuasions, as it is unconstitutional and illegal.

 
Following. Also very interested to see how many of these experiences/hours were completed after you applied last year. Is this the same MCAT score you applied with last year? I'm wondering if it's possible adcoms potentially(and wrongfully) considered your mcat more like a 512-514 instead of a 516 as it was boosted by a 132 P/S.
MCAT is same as last year.
 
It would be interesting to see the OP's stats/activities used for the last cycle. It's conceivable they had little/no clinical experience, little/no shadowing, or weak interviewing skills. They've got decent stats and a broad list so I'm guessing one of these areas needs to be tuned up.
Graduated in 3 yrs, last year. Since last year I have been working as an MA at a medical practice. Majority those hours (about 80%) were relevant last year. My MCAT was from last year too. Interviewing skill is comment....not sure about that. Never got an interview.
 
I've never seen "minus points" in any of the processes I've been involved with (that would be illegal). I've also worked with various admissions committees with a majority of ORM's (i.e., Asians and MENASA) as voting members.

I also do not have any optimism that things will "get better" once we hear from the SFFA cases soon.

So for the OP: have you done any outreach before applying with APAMSA chapter officers at the schools on your list (or similar affinity organizations that may appeal to your identity)?
no APAMSA outreach. Should I?
 
At the faith based org, I have helped with fundraising events (raised over $500K in 4 years), volunteered in the running of free medical checkup and vaccination clinics, performed facility cleaning activities like mopping, pots and pan cleaning, vacuuming etc.
How many hours of the bolded? That's what counts.

You need to demonstrate that you're comfortable getting off campus and out of your comfort zone and engaging in service to others less fortunate than yourself. I suspect that this is what is hindering you.

Faha's list is good, although many of the schools on the list are service loving schools.
 
I have to admit that I still cannot fathom why you didn’t receive a single interview last cycle with those stats and experiences.
While the suggestions given by the SDN experts is generally beneficial such as improving activities/ personal statements/ mission/ fit etc…the simple but fatal flaw in your application that no one is talking about, but is (hopefully) going to be fixed in 2023-2024 cycle, is the minus points being given by all the adcoms for your Asian American race/ethnicity. Once med schools cannot consider those immutable characteristics based on the upcoming SCOTUS decision, your application will surely fetch interviews. So apply for this cycle with a positive mindset and you will surely be successful!

Also, when you have a moment, just look through some SDN posts in “Reapplicant threads”. You will see 4.0 and 527 and exemplary ORM students reapplying after a failed admissions cycle, and on the other hand, there are those successful applicants with far inferior scores, attributes and experiences as per their posts, trying to choose between 5-10 admissions includes top 10 med schools, and openly cheered on by Adcoms including here at SDN.

Unfortunately, it is the ORM/ Asian American meritorious students who have to prove their their “mission” and “motivation”. Or charitably speaking, the best responses to those ORM is that their application was unlucky and likely fell through a “crack”. Wow! that must be one big giant tectonic plate shift rather than a crack, if so many ORMs applications are falling repeatedly through that!
I understand your frustration. I’d be annoyed to if, on paper, i outperform many of my peers. However, you give off a very negative attitude in attributing lack of acceptance due to race, as though it is the sole reason. Here’s the thing, AMCAS has provided applicants 1) a disadvantaged essay to explain if they’ve had any hardships 2) the option to show your socioeconomic status 3) the opportunity to expand on your PS, W/A and secondaries how you’re different from anyone else and even the opportunity to elaborate on any hardships. There’s no such thing as points taken away due to your race, what a foul thing to say. Look at the MSAR for almost every school and tell me what are the top two races who get accepted every year. Asians are definitely not at the bottom. Moreover, there’s a reason why medical schools may want someone of a minority background, can you guess why? Probably because patients feel more comfortable with someone who understands them. You clearly haven’t had enough clinical experience to witness that or you live in an area where you don’t get to see that harsh reality when a white or Asian doctor can’t speak the same language or doesn’t understand a patients preference or way of being. Stop being so damn salty. If you care about patients as I’m sure you elaborated on in your motivations to medicine, I am sure you’d want the best for them. Preaching for admissions in which Asians and whites are the major representation, based on better performance, is not the move.
 
The WAMC forums are meant to advise applicants on school lists and any improvements they can make.

This is a reminder that off-topic discussions are not permitted here. There are more appropriate forums for that.
 
Volunteering activity break down:
  1. Neuro Ambassador: 300
  2. Tutoring: 400
  3. Red Cross: 100
  4. Food Bank: 50
  5. Religious organization: 500
Specialties Shadowed: neurology, internal medicine, nephrology, orthopedics, sports medicine, surgery, cardiology.

Does this answer your question? Not sure what mission fit means.

Thanks and regards,
I had advised you in your prior post back in November to get the food bank hours up to 200. It appears you did not add to that at all during this time period.
 
Top