School Ranking and Rep
- Thread starter Thousandth
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I personally thin UNE is a great school for those who want primary care. Of course I may be a bit biased since this will be my school next year.
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You will get a lot of biased opinions here. The osteopathic physician I shadow told me that all of the schools are great, so pick the cheapest one...this seems to be a recurring point, so it must be of importance when it comes to pay back time. As far as ranking, I have done extensive research, and most of the schools are similar. A few things to look at, I think US News put out a best medical schools article, and a few of the osteopathic colleges landed with the big md schools for primary care...MSU comes to mind immediately, I think ranked #4 in the nation for primary, but out of state fees are nearly 40K per year...ridiculous for a state funded program. Other than that, a lot of the schools have state of the art buildings, gross anatomy labs, etc...I'm sure those who are already there can tell you about that. Also, some schools put more emphasis on OMM than others.
Moral of the story...figure out what is important to you...location, cost, reputation, philosophy,and of course, education. Ask questions from current students, and spend some time on google looking up press releases, etc... You'll find a lot of solid information.
P.s..the most competitive schools seem to be AZCOm, KCOM, TUCOM, PCOM, CCOM, NSUCOM, NYCOM, and MSUCOM. My apologies if I left out one of the most competitive. Maybe UHS or OSU?
I would have said TCOM, but impossible for out of state applicants
Best of luck on your search.😀
Moral of the story...figure out what is important to you...location, cost, reputation, philosophy,and of course, education. Ask questions from current students, and spend some time on google looking up press releases, etc... You'll find a lot of solid information.
P.s..the most competitive schools seem to be AZCOm, KCOM, TUCOM, PCOM, CCOM, NSUCOM, NYCOM, and MSUCOM. My apologies if I left out one of the most competitive. Maybe UHS or OSU?
I would have said TCOM, but impossible for out of state applicants
Best of luck on your search.😀
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I disagree with this statement completely.
All DO schools, just like all MD schools, are not created equal.
Medical schools in general will teach you what you need to know to become a physician...otherwise their students wouldnt pass boards.
But to say that all 19 proven DO schools (VCOM yet to graduate a class) are "great" and will give you the same education...now way.
Nothing against other schools, but I dont think that PCSOM and WVSOM (just throwing out a few names) give the same education as a PCOM or NYCOM.
You need to take into consideration the faculty, rotation sites, and facilities...just to name a few.
Are Harvard med and Temple med equal? No way. But there are people who would rather go to one as opposed to the other.
Weigh your decision carefully.
And for those of you who think I'm bashing other schools, like WVSOM...I hear you guys have the best Anatomy lab around. Kudos.
🙂
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Well, excuse me, why can't people state opinions without disagreeing with others? I agree with most of what you said,JP, and cost is of importance to some especially if you want to do primary care which seems to be an emphasis for D.O.. I agree that some are more reputable than others, but all do have their great points and give to their community in many ways...for instance, Pikeville has a new hospital and osteopathic facility that have added so much to the people of that community. For people from the region or with a passion for that type of work, it is a GREAT school. It all just depends on what you are looking for. VCOM is part of Virginia Tech, an amazing school and campus, with a veteran for a president, in a region that desperately need medical care, and already have a long list of clinical sites. In ten years it might just be one of the "best" schools.
All that said, I agree that you should research carefully, but just because a school is not considered the best doesn't mean it isn't the best for you. The level of education received is up to the individual.
All that said, I agree that you should research carefully, but just because a school is not considered the best doesn't mean it isn't the best for you. The level of education received is up to the individual.
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I was hoping that my post had this sort of message to it. Upon reviewing what I wrote, I see that it may not have.
I agree with the above statement 100%.
I would give the advice that it doesn't matter where you go. Your school does NOT make you a physician, it is your education, you make the most of it. If I had gone to Harvard or Hopkins, NSUCOM (where I did go) or MCV, I would *likely* still be the same and have *roughly* the same abilities. (Minus the OMT if I went MD). I've seen so so many different students from so many different schools since I've been an intern (wow, 4 months now), and I've noticed that... there is NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would go A) Where the location is the best "fit" for you.
B) Tuition
C) Where do you want to spend atleast 2 years of your life, perhaps 4 if you stay in the area for rotations.
Q, DO
I would go A) Where the location is the best "fit" for you.
B) Tuition
C) Where do you want to spend atleast 2 years of your life, perhaps 4 if you stay in the area for rotations.
Q, DO
I 100% agree with Quinn. It is not the school that makes the student. It is how hard the student works that makes the student. Period.
Base your evalutation on costs and location. One other thing to think about may be board scores. See how each school does on COMLEX I. This year UHS-COM had a 98.5% pass rate on Step I, the average at all DO schools was 93%
Otherwise......location and $$$ should probably be your biggest concerns.
Normalforce
Base your evalutation on costs and location. One other thing to think about may be board scores. See how each school does on COMLEX I. This year UHS-COM had a 98.5% pass rate on Step I, the average at all DO schools was 93%
Otherwise......location and $$$ should probably be your biggest concerns.
Normalforce
Sorry bro, disagree with you. The people that do poorly on the COMLEX (or USMLE) are usually poor test-takers in general. I wouldnt' base your decision on this. Like you (and I) said, it is you that makes YOU as a medical student/physician, no school is going to help you score "higher" on the COMLEX. It is all about you. My school was straight average (I believe) on our COMLEX scores, but I busted out a 99%, go figure!
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It seems like it's all about personal preference, and not just numbers. I personally am looking more toward UNE or WVSOM partly because they are a little smaller and are not in big cities. I've lived in smaller cities all my life and am use to it. Some I'm sure would disagree, but hey, to each his own.
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1. Wow, I didn't realize MSU had jumped from 35 to 4 in primary care. Congrats Spartans!
2. CCOM, if USN&WP have their #s right, is the easiest school for an in-state resident to get in: 254-245-237-85 (apply-interview-accepted-enrolled for those from Illinois).
3.Texas is not impossible for out-of-state students, in fact, it has comparable # to other schools. Because Texas doesn't use AACOMAS, only about 100 out-of-staters apply, interview 30, accept 18, and 8 enroll.
4. The Pikeville program is weak and cannot be compared to WVSOM. Pikeville is barely on the osteo map, whereas WVSOM has been around since '72 and has made a name for itself in primary care and rural medicine. In addition, one cannot compare the facilities nor the town of Pikeville w/ quaint Lewisburg.
5. VCOM has only a loose affliation w/ Virginia Tech
6. Now for some real controversy (in no particular order, just groups of 5):
Top 5: MSU, North Texas, OSU, OU, Kirksville
Next 5: New Jersey, WVSOM, UHS, PCOM, Nova
Next 5: AZCOM, CCOM, DMU, Nova, UNECOM
Bottom 5: Pikeville, VCOM, LECOM, TUCOM, Western
Take these rankings w/ a grain of salt. Nevertheless, beware of new schools, schools under criminal investigation, schools building a new campus before their first campus is well established, and schools w/ what others in the industry refer to as "weak."
I agree that one should look for a fit, rather than a ranking. USN&WR Rankings are just #s being tabulated. Is MSU better than Pikeville? Yes. But for an eastern KY resident who wants to practice near home, it may be the right fit.
With visits to the schools you'll know if that particular school is right or not. Talk to the students who are NOT giving the tours to get the real scoop. In the end, you're all doctors and that's what really counts... Therefore, take cost, location, school size, and especially clinical opportunites into consideration. Good luck to all in this trying but exciting process of applying to medical schools.
2. CCOM, if USN&WP have their #s right, is the easiest school for an in-state resident to get in: 254-245-237-85 (apply-interview-accepted-enrolled for those from Illinois).
3.Texas is not impossible for out-of-state students, in fact, it has comparable # to other schools. Because Texas doesn't use AACOMAS, only about 100 out-of-staters apply, interview 30, accept 18, and 8 enroll.
4. The Pikeville program is weak and cannot be compared to WVSOM. Pikeville is barely on the osteo map, whereas WVSOM has been around since '72 and has made a name for itself in primary care and rural medicine. In addition, one cannot compare the facilities nor the town of Pikeville w/ quaint Lewisburg.
5. VCOM has only a loose affliation w/ Virginia Tech
6. Now for some real controversy (in no particular order, just groups of 5):
Top 5: MSU, North Texas, OSU, OU, Kirksville
Next 5: New Jersey, WVSOM, UHS, PCOM, Nova
Next 5: AZCOM, CCOM, DMU, Nova, UNECOM
Bottom 5: Pikeville, VCOM, LECOM, TUCOM, Western
Take these rankings w/ a grain of salt. Nevertheless, beware of new schools, schools under criminal investigation, schools building a new campus before their first campus is well established, and schools w/ what others in the industry refer to as "weak."
I agree that one should look for a fit, rather than a ranking. USN&WR Rankings are just #s being tabulated. Is MSU better than Pikeville? Yes. But for an eastern KY resident who wants to practice near home, it may be the right fit.
With visits to the schools you'll know if that particular school is right or not. Talk to the students who are NOT giving the tours to get the real scoop. In the end, you're all doctors and that's what really counts... Therefore, take cost, location, school size, and especially clinical opportunites into consideration. Good luck to all in this trying but exciting process of applying to medical schools.
Our anatomy lab (@OSU-COM) is not the best I have seen. We also just lost our ~30 year anatomy professor, but our Histology department is awesome, and our Pathology department (headed by Ed Goljan) is probably one of the best in the country. With that, I would also put our clinical training the first two years on par with any school in the country. So, I think that OSU has everything you could want in a school (of, course, it is in Oklahoma...still getting used to that)
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That's what I said, all rankings aside-- the student should decide what 's best for him or her. The ranking is just my opinion based on research and gut feeling. You are free to make your own. Touro is a gimmee for the bottom five and I based the Western ranking on the current investigation and the fact that Pomona is a dump. Go Bruins!
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WVSOM ranked higher than AZCOM and CCOM?
OU above DMU and PCOM?
OSU above NOVA?
And how the hell did LECOM get ranked so low?
Unreal.
You've got to be crazy.
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Again, you too are free to make up your own rankings.
1. OU is affiliated w/ an excellent state school and has a small class w/ great facilities.
2. Ditto for OSU. Compared to Nova, a less than mediocre school overall with a money generating osteopathic program.
3. USN&WR rankings came into play w/ WVSOM: # 57 primary care and #10 rural health (one of only five D.O.schools ranked for primary care), along with the fact that the Lewisburg campus outshines the '70s-look at CCOM and the suburban-look out west.
4. LECOM. Please. Read the interviews and threads. A last choice school for most. Erie, rules, sterile bldg, and the fact that they are not ready to open up a campus south of Tampa-- a further cheapening of the osteopathic profession.
1. OU is affiliated w/ an excellent state school and has a small class w/ great facilities.
2. Ditto for OSU. Compared to Nova, a less than mediocre school overall with a money generating osteopathic program.
3. USN&WR rankings came into play w/ WVSOM: # 57 primary care and #10 rural health (one of only five D.O.schools ranked for primary care), along with the fact that the Lewisburg campus outshines the '70s-look at CCOM and the suburban-look out west.
4. LECOM. Please. Read the interviews and threads. A last choice school for most. Erie, rules, sterile bldg, and the fact that they are not ready to open up a campus south of Tampa-- a further cheapening of the osteopathic profession.
Have you ever been to LECOM? I you must believe everything you read on these boards. Since you seem to believe everything, I'll just let you know that I a had 40 MCAT and chose LECOM....
Who gives you the authority to say that LECOM isn't ready to open up a branch campus? Obviously the AOA thinks they are....
Oh and by the way..I'm from Ohio...Ohio U's rotations aren't that great. Yes they have 1 or 2 good hospitals, but many of them aren't that great.
Who gives you the authority to say that LECOM isn't ready to open up a branch campus? Obviously the AOA thinks they are....
Oh and by the way..I'm from Ohio...Ohio U's rotations aren't that great. Yes they have 1 or 2 good hospitals, but many of them aren't that great.
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I completely disagree with Demosthenes ranking. I have visited most of these schools and I don't know how they were ranked. ANd I certainly don't believe that UNECOM is in the third tier of osetopathic schools. As a matter of fact if even makes national rankings in major publications. I would like to know how you randomly put it in the bottom.
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Yes, I have been to LECOM and I feel the students are not as happy there as most other osteo schools. BUT, obviously you are happy there-- and that's what counts. If you read my earlier comments carefully, rankings aside, some schools are just a better fit for a particular student than others. No matter what I or USN&WP say. You fit that category.
John Stuart Mill would say that by me adding my opinion that I am adding to the knowledge base even if my opinions are false. LECOM is an oeteopathic backwater and UNECOM's Biddeford ranks up there w/ Erie as one of the worst cities to put a school. UNECOM is not "randomly" in the bottom third-- in my opinion it's in the bottom third. If you all are so upset w/ these rankings, rank the 21 schools yourself (I think I forgot NYCOM in my original rankings: third tier ranked somewhere b/w 11-16).
John Stuart Mill would say that by me adding my opinion that I am adding to the knowledge base even if my opinions are false. LECOM is an oeteopathic backwater and UNECOM's Biddeford ranks up there w/ Erie as one of the worst cities to put a school. UNECOM is not "randomly" in the bottom third-- in my opinion it's in the bottom third. If you all are so upset w/ these rankings, rank the 21 schools yourself (I think I forgot NYCOM in my original rankings: third tier ranked somewhere b/w 11-16).
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I completely disagree with your thoughts that Biddeford is a poor location for a school. What is your foundation for this statement? It's in a gorgeous location near two major cities.
Honestly if I had to rank the school's I've personally visited it's at the top tied with WVSOM.
I also disagree with your ranking of UNECOM so low because of the fact that US and World news has ranked it among the top programs in rural medicine and primary care for many years. How can this be one of the worst programs if it has been ranked as one of the best?
Both of these schools have excellent facilities and are in gorgeous places. The class sizes are some of the smallest aroudn for osetopathic schools and I am positive UNE has been ranked higher than most of the schools that were posted in this top 5 ranking system.
Behind UNECOM AND WVSOM I would have to place VCOM tenatively understanding that it has not graduated a class yet. However it has a great student body and professors. It also has the most up to date facilities and is associated with VTECH loosely. Next would be AZCOM and then UMDNJ. Both of these schools were ok however I was not thoroughly impressed by either of their facilities. in AZCOM we saw the anatomy lab but it was not very impressive. I also was not a huge fan of UMDNJ's facilities, however the people that I met there was stellar.
Honestly if I had to rank the school's I've personally visited it's at the top tied with WVSOM.
I also disagree with your ranking of UNECOM so low because of the fact that US and World news has ranked it among the top programs in rural medicine and primary care for many years. How can this be one of the worst programs if it has been ranked as one of the best?
Both of these schools have excellent facilities and are in gorgeous places. The class sizes are some of the smallest aroudn for osetopathic schools and I am positive UNE has been ranked higher than most of the schools that were posted in this top 5 ranking system.
Behind UNECOM AND WVSOM I would have to place VCOM tenatively understanding that it has not graduated a class yet. However it has a great student body and professors. It also has the most up to date facilities and is associated with VTECH loosely. Next would be AZCOM and then UMDNJ. Both of these schools were ok however I was not thoroughly impressed by either of their facilities. in AZCOM we saw the anatomy lab but it was not very impressive. I also was not a huge fan of UMDNJ's facilities, however the people that I met there was stellar.
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I agree with Western and Touro being in the bottom only based on their facilities. I know their teaching isn't bad though...but I'm just saying, as a school overall, I wasn't happy at Western nor was I thrilled with Touro - I'd definitely do that over nothing though.
Facilities and quality of education don't always go hand in hand...but it definitely is included in my evaluation of what I want in a school...and so is where the schools are located. I'm not too much of a fan of a middle of nowhere place...I feel a bigger city would have more opportunities.
My 0.02
Facilities and quality of education don't always go hand in hand...but it definitely is included in my evaluation of what I want in a school...and so is where the schools are located. I'm not too much of a fan of a middle of nowhere place...I feel a bigger city would have more opportunities.
My 0.02
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Just to reply to the most competitive schools response someone put up in the back of the US and world news report they put the acceptance ratios and UMDNJ(6%) was the lowest followed by UNECOM(11%) after that there were a bunch around 12-13% and some a lot higher
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here are the exact acceptance rates that I could find
AZCOM-15%
Western-20%
Touro-12%
Nova SOutheastern-17%
CCOM-34%
DMU-26%
Pikeville-18%
UNE-11%
MSU-12%
Kirksville-18%
UMDNJ-6%
NYCOM-23%
OUCOM-27%
OklahomaState-13%
LECOM- not available
PCOM-13%
TCOM- 14%
WVSOM-13%
If you need any other data I have some great breakdowns I could give you about class size and tuition and in state acceptances etc.
Unfortunately there is no ranking of DO schools officially so they get lumped with allopathic schools which I don't think is entirely fair but anyhow...
AZCOM-15%
Western-20%
Touro-12%
Nova SOutheastern-17%
CCOM-34%
DMU-26%
Pikeville-18%
UNE-11%
MSU-12%
Kirksville-18%
UMDNJ-6%
NYCOM-23%
OUCOM-27%
OklahomaState-13%
LECOM- not available
PCOM-13%
TCOM- 14%
WVSOM-13%
If you need any other data I have some great breakdowns I could give you about class size and tuition and in state acceptances etc.
Unfortunately there is no ranking of DO schools officially so they get lumped with allopathic schools which I don't think is entirely fair but anyhow...
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i think the better you study in general, the better you'll do on those kind of standardized tests. Someone who did really well on the MCAT probably studied pretty hard hence they may just do really well on other tests...unless you're just pretty darn smart - which...I guess you'll do good on the MCAT and step I as well.
OF COURSE it depends on the individual how well they do.
But when a school has a very high pass rate (or very low), that says something about the curriculum--especially when they do it year after year.
It's unlikely that you will have all good test-takers or all bad test-takers in one class.
Anyway, don't even worry about the boards.
Go for the cheapest place and apply yourself and you have nothing to worry about. You're going to be self-taught anyway (unless you ENJOY biochem and pharm lectures that sound like they're being taught by Ben Stein 😳 ).
But when a school has a very high pass rate (or very low), that says something about the curriculum--especially when they do it year after year.
It's unlikely that you will have all good test-takers or all bad test-takers in one class.
Anyway, don't even worry about the boards.
Go for the cheapest place and apply yourself and you have nothing to worry about. You're going to be self-taught anyway (unless you ENJOY biochem and pharm lectures that sound like they're being taught by Ben Stein 😳 ).
Wow, you are quite the authority. Have you actually visited all of these schools? I assume you have some sort of special knowledge that eludes the rest of us for you to be able to stratify the schools so clearly, and make sweeping generalizations about particular schools being better than others.
Please enlighten the rest of us to your methodology.
MS-2
Midwestern University-CCOM
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Dude, what's your beef with PCSOM, anyway?
To set the record straight (since the OP is concerned about "ranking and rep"), we do just fine here in the mountains. 🙂 PCSOM's Step I pass rate remains comfortably above the national average.
To compare one DO school to another is crap in the first place. Reiterating what's been said before, choosing a school is all about personal preference and what school feels right for you. Each school offers something different. If anything, I'd try to find a school in close proximity to the area where you hope to do your residency. A PCSOM degree holds more weight than a MSU degree in Kentucky and I'm sure the opposite is true in Michigan.
Not sure. You'll get anecdotal evidence everywhere... there have been several threads, do a search. I scored a 28 on the MCAT, 93% on Step 1, 99% on Step 2.
Q, DO
To the new SDNers and pre-osteos:
Demosthenes_7's comments are (to my eyes and several other SDNers) completely biased. What level of medical student is he? I am guessing M1 or M2. There are no "official" rankings for DO programs, and I hate when people make a "complete" list of the "best" osteopathic schools, becuase when pre-MDs and pre-DO students come here, they will print out that list and look at it when applying. Demo's opinions don't mean cra& (I don't care what "RESEARCH" and "gut feeling" he/she had), and the general concensus of the "better" DO programs are not represented there on his list (I will refrain from giving the "better" DO programs, as it DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL DAMMIT!).
These, and ONLY these, are the criteria you should use are:
Location (wher do you want to live for two years, possibly four)
Tuition
Gut feeling when you walked through the halls
(and, obviously, if you only get into one program, you don't have much of a choice).
Q, DO
Demosthenes_7's comments are (to my eyes and several other SDNers) completely biased. What level of medical student is he? I am guessing M1 or M2. There are no "official" rankings for DO programs, and I hate when people make a "complete" list of the "best" osteopathic schools, becuase when pre-MDs and pre-DO students come here, they will print out that list and look at it when applying. Demo's opinions don't mean cra& (I don't care what "RESEARCH" and "gut feeling" he/she had), and the general concensus of the "better" DO programs are not represented there on his list (I will refrain from giving the "better" DO programs, as it DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL DAMMIT!).
These, and ONLY these, are the criteria you should use are:
Location (wher do you want to live for two years, possibly four)
Tuition
Gut feeling when you walked through the halls
(and, obviously, if you only get into one program, you don't have much of a choice).
Q, DO
I don't even know why I bother to come to SDN anymore. I've been coming here for 6 months, and I swear this stupid thread has been created 3 or more times- as have several other threads(it's called a search button people). There's always a bunch of "I like this school" and then some ass tries and ranks them all by some completely subjective measurement.
Go to your interviews, see for yourselves and go from there. Don't listen to someone who has your "best interests at heart." If I had a dollar for every single loser with a MCAT/GPA/RANKINGS thread, I sure as hell wouldn't be in so much debt.
Take that with a grain of salt,
Dr_Sax
Go to your interviews, see for yourselves and go from there. Don't listen to someone who has your "best interests at heart." If I had a dollar for every single loser with a MCAT/GPA/RANKINGS thread, I sure as hell wouldn't be in so much debt.
Take that with a grain of salt,
Dr_Sax
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As I have said from the beginning all of my comments are, not for the best interests of others but, my own personal preferences and opinions. The only rankings out there are of 5 DO schools in a sea of allopathic schools. My research methodology consists of personal visits to schools, opinions from students and administrators, USN&WP, and my own bias. What's right for me may not be right for others, but an opinion was asked for and debate was stimulated. Best of luck for searching the school that is right for you...
I taught an MCAT prep course over the summer, and this information was conveyed to me by the director. the context was "MCAT is not a good predictor of medical school grades, but it is an excellent predictor of board scores". however, the cynic could say that the best MCAT's get into the best schools (for the most part) and receive the best basic science education and thus, score better on the boards.
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The correlation between MCAT and preclinical grades is high--about 0.7; the correlation between GPA and preclinical grades is about 0.1.
There's also a correlation between a high verbal score and those who do poorly in their preclinical years, but well in years 3&4. Not to say that those with a high verbal score do poorly in preclinicals, of course. However, those who improve dramatically between MS1/2 and MS3/4 tend to have higher verbal scores than their classmates.
I don't know of any researched correlation between MCAT and board scores, but if it exists, it'll be on the AAMC website, which has all sorts of abstracts on MCAT research.
There's also a correlation between a high verbal score and those who do poorly in their preclinical years, but well in years 3&4. Not to say that those with a high verbal score do poorly in preclinicals, of course. However, those who improve dramatically between MS1/2 and MS3/4 tend to have higher verbal scores than their classmates.
I don't know of any researched correlation between MCAT and board scores, but if it exists, it'll be on the AAMC website, which has all sorts of abstracts on MCAT research.
I scored 9/10/9 on my MCAT (back in 1998)... did very well 1/2 years (top 20% of class) and got honors in the majority of my 3/4th years. Guess either I wore the right underwear or knew what to say.
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Hmmmm.... no nycom? I see Nova makes 2 different categories. Funny stuff.
According the the NBOME themselves, there's absolutely NO correlation with MCAT scores and board scores. In fact, the school with the highest average incoming MCAT ranks 14 out of 19 in mean board scores.
An anatomy professor at UHS-COM just did research on this topic. The best predictor of COMLEX or USMLE Step I scores is........................ dun duh da dun da duh
MSI and MSII grade point average. That's right folks. Your preclinical grades are the best predictor of you Step I score. It's a fact. No arguing, move on.
Normalforce
MSI and MSII grade point average. That's right folks. Your preclinical grades are the best predictor of you Step I score. It's a fact. No arguing, move on.
Normalforce
