School rankings

[TakingBakSunday]

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Do research rankings really matter as a medical student? As far as I can tell, we all take the same Step I/II and Shelf exams during 3rd year. Your research interests and how far they take you are independent and for most people would be the same no matter where you went. From my and my classmates experience in residency interviewing, no one seems to care where you went to school as long as you have good usmle scores and finished high in your class regardless of where you went. I understand the possible preference of your home program, but that still might be a 1/20 chance. Medical school seems so uniform at this point and rankings seem so moot. The field just seems so highly regulated (as it should be)

 

[cowme]

Do research rankings really matter as a medical student? As far as I can tell, we all take the same Step I/II and Shelf exams during 3rd year. Your research interests and how far they take you are independent and for most people would be the same no matter where you went. From my and my classmates experience in residency interviewing, no one seems to care where you went to school as long as you have good usmle scores and finished high in your class regardless of where you went. I understand the possible preference of your home program, but that still might be a 1/20 chance. Medical school seems so uniform at this point and rankings seem so moot. The field just seems so highly regulated (as it should be)

This is the only area that I think school reputation comes into play. A student in the top 50th percentile at Harvard will have a better shot to get interviews that may only be given to top 10th percentile students at less highly ranked schools. Otherwise, completely agree

 

[med912]

This is the only area that I think school reputation comes into play. A student in the top 50th percentile at Harvard will have a better shot to get interviews that may only be given to top 10th percentile students at less highly ranked schools. Otherwise, completely agree[/QUOT

So this only comes into play when dealing with very competitive fields? What kind of effect are we talking here (I know there's no objective way to do this but I just want to get a better idea). The survey of PDs from 2008 also seems to say that school ranking does not matter.

 

[DoctwoB]

This is the only area that I think school reputation comes into play. A student in the top 50th percentile at Harvard will have a better shot to get interviews that may only be given to top 10th percentile students at less highly ranked schools. Otherwise, completely agree[/QUOT

So this only comes into play when dealing with very competitive fields? What kind of effect are we talking here (I know there's no objective way to do this but I just want to get a better idea). The survey of PDs from 2008 also seems to say that school ranking does not matter.

It said school ranking matters, but less then step1, clinical grades, research or LORs.

Of course, LORs from big name faculty at top schools carry more weight, its easier to get those publications/funding from big time labs at top schools, etc.

Taking advantage of the resources available at the school you're at is much more important then where you go, but where you go still matters.

 

[ruiner]

Also a lot of the top schools are also, unsurprisingly, the oldest, which equals a lot of attending alumni out there in the world. I'm not applying for residency yet but I have worked in the "real" world and if it's anything like business, going to the same school as your interviewer doesn't hurt you.

 

[EMber13]

Also a lot of the top schools are also, unsurprisingly, the oldest, which equals a lot of attending alumni out there in the world. I'm not applying for residency yet but I have worked in the "real" world and if it's anything like business, going to the same school as your interviewer doesn't hurt you.

Using that logic wouldn't it be beneficial to go to the biggest school? Harvard Med has been around since 1782 but I doubt there are many alumni from back then still in practice.

I see your point, though, that the brand-new start ups, however fantastic they may be, haven't proven themselves and the PDs at more prestigious programs may be a bit leery.

 

[ruiner]

Using that logic wouldn't it be beneficial to go to the biggest school? Harvard Med has been around since 1782 but I doubt there are many alumni from back then still in practice.

I see your point, though, that the brand-new start ups, however fantastic they may be, haven't proven themselves and the PDs at more prestigious programs may be a bit leery.

Hah well yeah it's obviously not the only reason the top schools are at the top but it is a contributing factor! And I do think going to a big school would help somewhat in the same way! For instance Wayne has ~315 grads a year, thats a lot of docs out there practicing right now, with a lot of em you gotta figure involved in residency programs.

Obviously I'm not trying to say grads from UCF, Oakland, FIU, etc will not have a shot top residencies but I bet there will be a few years where RDs will be weary.

 

[mvenus929]

So this only comes into play when dealing with very competitive fields? What kind of effect are we talking here (I know there's no objective way to do this but I just want to get a better idea). The survey of PDs from 2008 also seems to say that school ranking does not matter.

Not only competitive fields, but competitive residencies even within the less competitive fields. If you're shooting for, say, the top pediatrics program in the nation, it doesn't hurt to go to a school with a good reputation.

But, of course, it depends on how well known your school is to the residency program, and that's out of your control. If a certain school sends someone to a pediatrics residency, and throughout the program, no one likes that resident, there's going to be some poor feelings about taking other people from that school. So the rankings don't necessarily matter, but rather how well students are trained and prepared for residency.

Or so I've been told, anyway.

 

[DoctwoB]

The other big factor is that you have a major in into your own residency program. At top schools, usually 1/4-1/3 stay do residency at their own school (and those aren't always the top students).

When 1/3 of your class is doing residency at Harvard, or UCSF, or even UPMC for my case, thats a major factor for where to pick a school. It also tells you that people liked the school/area/hospital system enough to stick around.

 

[Docster]

This is an issue i remember thinking about as an M1/2. I matched into neurosurg yesterday and FWIW, I think personality and achievements besides just grades and step I scores mean something:

Stats:
I went to a public, east coast med school (ranked somewhere in the top 50 USNews research rankings), had a 220 something Step I, didn't make Step II available to interviewers, and was ranked at the 33rd percentile in my class (got straight Bs first two years and As and B+s my 3rd year). I did have some publications, good letters from well knowns, a boatload of well known awards from the college era, and was well liked on away sub-Is.

Interviews:
all over the place from places like MGH to UIC-Peoria to UCSF to Mayo. Only region that I didn't get a single bite from was the South-- although to be fair, I didn't apply to southern programs.

Match Results:
matched at top 5 program per my home chairman (will find out where exactly on Thurs). and, no, i didn't rank podunk university 1-5.

Lesson:
Grades and Step I are important. Med school name is not nearly as important. Most important is the whole package. And, in case you might be wondering, I'm male and not an URM.



I think the previous poster's point is correct, but it mostly applies to larger residency programs like IM or Gen Surg that take prob 20 people per year. When you're looking at a specialty that, on average, has only 2 spots per program and there are only 98 programs, PDs will look at the person much more closely. One bad apple can easily poison the dynamics of a team and disrupt things. In a competitive specialty like neurosurg, all candidates do 2-3 neurosurg rotations outside of their home institution, and these can be done anywhere (so you can get the same letters that the kid from Harvard is getting.)

 

[IMnerd]

NRMP stats show that program reputation does not matted when it comes to the rank list, but it factor in earlier in the process.

From my own limited experience, while interviewing at UCSF, it was all Harvard, U Penn, Hopkins, Ucla, Stanford, UW, Wash U...

For most of my other west coast interviews this was not the case, but it was a little shocking to see almost exclusively top 15 medical schools at UCSF.

 

[causalinference]

This is an issue i remember thinking about as an M1/2. I matched into neurosurg yesterday and FWIW, I think personality and achievements besides just grades and step I scores mean something:

Stats:
I went to a public, east coast med school (ranked somewhere in the top 50 USNews research rankings), had a 220 something Step I, didn't make Step II available to interviewers, and was ranked at the 33rd percentile in my class (got straight Bs first two years and As and B+s my 3rd year). I did have some publications, good letters from well knowns, a boatload of well known awards from the college era, and was well liked on away sub-Is.

Interviews:
all over the place from places like MGH to UIC-Peoria to UCSF to Mayo. Only region that I didn't get a single bite from was the South-- although to be fair, I didn't apply to southern programs.

Match Results:
matched at top 5 program per my home chairman (will find out where exactly on Thurs). and, no, i didn't rank podunk university 1-5.

Lesson:
Grades and Step I are important. Med school name is not nearly as important. Most important is the whole package. And, in case you might be wondering, I'm male and not an URM.



I think the previous poster's point is correct, but it mostly applies to larger residency programs like IM or Gen Surg that take prob 20 people per year. When you're looking at a specialty that, on average, has only 2 spots per program and there are only 98 programs, PDs will look at the person much more closely. One bad apple can easily poison the dynamics of a team and disrupt things. In a competitive specialty like neurosurg, all candidates do 2-3 neurosurg rotations outside of their home institution, and these can be done anywhere (so you can get the same letters that the kid from Harvard is getting.)

Very helpful and insightful post, thank you.