School

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I can't help but ask though...
Is the reason you're asking this because you do not wish to be vaccinated..?

To answer your question, I do not believe so.
Any hospital environment where either party (patient/student) has the risk of causing infection (tuberculosis, hepatitis) will probably not want either of them getting infected. Potential million++ dollar law suit waiting to happen, you know?
 
Last edited:
Allen18328 said:
I've had all of my vaccines ( I believe). I'm most curious about their policies on annual flu shots.
Click to expand...

I don't know about medical schools, but most hospitals give two options: 1) get the flu shot, or 2) wear a face mask at all times when on hospital grounds. Most people elect to get the shot, except for those with egg allergies etc.
 
Allen18328 said:
I've had all of my vaccines ( I believe). I'm most curious about their policies on annual flu shots.
Click to expand...
Flu shot will probably be required. I know the hospitals I've volunteered in and worked in require it. Remember, not only your school matters but the rotation site, residency, fellowship and attending jobs may require it. Don't be short sighted on this even if one school doesn't do it.
 
QuinnTheEskimo said:
I don't know about medical schools, but most hospitals give two options: 1) get the flu shot, or 2) wear a face mask at all times when on hospital grounds. Most people elect to get the shot, except for those with egg allergies etc.
Click to expand...

There is an egg-free version now.
 
Allen18328 said:
I've had all of my vaccines ( I believe). I'm most curious about their policies on annual flu shots.
Click to expand...
Willingness to comply with the vaccination requirements of all affiliated hospitals is a common element of the essential characteristics (or technical standards) at US medical schools. Annual influenza vaccination is one of many such requirements. You might want to check the student handbook or technical standards at the schools in which you are accepted to clarify these requirements.
 
Allen18328 said:
I'm wondering if any of the medical schools have that option as well. Maybe one day when I'm bored Ill look up some schools I'm interested and make a list about their policies.
Click to expand...

I am really curious. What do you have against the flu shot?
 
gyngyn said:
Willingness to comply with the vaccination requirements of all affiliated hospitals is a common element of the essential characteristics (or technical standards) at US medical schools. Annual influenza vaccination is one of many such requirements. You might want to check the student handbook or technical standards at the schools in which you are accepted to clarify these requirements.
Click to expand...

What if there is a medical contraindication? Would I be penalized? The doctors administered several vaccines together, and I had a reaction that troubled the physicians. I have since tried to complete all of my shots (one by one), with exception of the shot that is the expected problem (MMR). My blood antibody titers show immunity to mumps but not to either type of measles, do you think this will be problematic for medical school?

Also, is true that medical schools want blood titers in addition to vaccination records?
 
knv2u said:
What if there is a medical contraindication? Would I be penalized? The doctors administered several vaccines together, and I had a reaction that troubled the physicians. I have since tried to complete all of my shots (one by one), with exception of the shot that is the expected problem (MMR). My blood antibody titers show immunity to mumps but not to either type of measles, do you think this will be problematic for medical school?

Also, is true that medical schools want blood titers in addition to vaccination records?
Click to expand...
Many of those who are unable to meet technical standards fail due to factors outside of their control. This would be a good time to start working on a way to achieve immunity.

Yes, evidence of immunity can be required.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some do want titers, and not always for all of the vaccines... it varies by school and hospital.

If you have an absolute contraindication that should be fine with a doctor's note. (FTR at my school if you had that for the flu shot, you'd have to wear a mask for the duration of flu season. And you can't just choose not to get it, you need a note.)

Allergy/reaction - my dad's hospital is actually clamping down on this because I guess they had a lot of people who claimed they were allergic (maybe suspected some of them were making it up? or it was just a really high number so they thought it was becoming unsafe for patients? not sure which one). Anyway they now require you to have your allergy verified by an allergist/immunologist, meaning you have to get allergy tests.
 
gyngyn said:
Many of those who are unable to meet technical standards fail due to factors outside of their control. This would be a good time to start working on a way to achieve immunity.

Yes, evidence of immunity can be required.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
hmockingbird said:
Allergy/reaction - my dad's hospital is actually clamping down on this because I guess they had a lot of people who claimed they were allergic (maybe suspected some of them were making it up? or it was just a really high number so they thought it was becoming unsafe for patients? not sure which one). Anyway they now require you to have your allergy verified by an allergist/immunologist, meaning you have to get allergy tests.
Click to expand...

Yeah a lot of people seem to have an irrational fear of vaccines. I think it has something to do with that MMR/autism article that was RETRACTED years ago, but still manages to persist in the public consciousness for whatever reason.
 
Allen18328 said:
I've had all of my vaccines ( I believe). I'm most curious about their policies on annual flu shots.
Click to expand...
I could be completely crazy but I think some school list I was looking at said the flu shot was optional but strongly recommended? It would be either UND or UMinnesota. Personally, I skimmed over it as I get mine every year anyways... I used to get sick a lot and now it's a lot less frequent since I started getting them.
 
I would bet the vast majority of schools require them.
 
If you're going to touch patients, you're going up to need to be up to date on your vaccinations.


Allen18328 said:
Is anyone aware of what medical schools do not mandate vaccines or have exceptions for them? Every thread I have found has turned into a debate and was useless. If anyone has this info, but would rather stay off the forums please PM me.

I absolutely will not debate whether or not someone should get vaccinated or not. Please keep this civil and only respond if you have the answer I'm looking for.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Allen18328 said:
Appreciate it! I'm willing to bet there are a few that are optional on the flu. Most others are probably mandatory. I'll just have to do a bit of research.
Click to expand...

Even if you find some schools where it's currently "optional", this policy could change at any time. What would you do then?
 
Allen18328 said:
Is anyone aware of what medical schools do not mandate vaccines or have exceptions for them? Every thread I have found has turned into a debate and was useless. If anyone has this info, but would rather stay off the forums please PM me.

I absolutely will not debate whether or not someone should get vaccinated or not. Please keep this civil and only respond if you have the answer I'm looking for.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I suspect that even if vaccinations are "required," exceptions might be made. I am not that familiar with the content of all vaccines, but hypothetically, if someone were severely allergic to an ingredient in a vaccination, a disability accommodation of waiving the vaccine might be underway. Similar exceptions for religious reasons.
 
This is not a policy to choose a medical school over. If you can't take getting shots, how are you going to administer them as a physician? Or do more intense things like place a central line? I'm pretty sure you'll get over your shot problem pretty fast.

Anyway, here the policy is get the flu shot or wear a mask at all times, but the more employees taking the mask option, the more lives are in danger. I couldn't do that to patients. Can you?
 
Some do want titers, and not always for all of the vaccines... it varies by school and hospital.
Click to expand...
Be aware that even if you attend a med school with relatively lenient requirements, if you want to do an away rotation/audition rotation at another facility during fourth year, you will be obliged to fulfill that institution's requirements first.
 
Allen18328 said:
Says the first year med student who doesn't really "get" how vaccines work??
Click to expand...
lol says the pre-med

Our children's hospital requires you to get the flu shot, otherwise you get fired, as well you should. There are multiple forms available if you are allergic or sensitive to one.

I'm ok with people who are anti-vaccinations being prohibited from entering med school, it shows an unbelievable lack of sensibility that I would have trouble trusting them with patients.
Unless it is against your religion, or you have medical contraindications, you really have no reason to refuse it if you are going to be in contact with vulnerable patients.
 
Catalystik said:
Be aware that even if you attend a med school with relatively lenient requirements, if you want to do an away rotation/audition rotation at another facility during fourth year, you will be obliged to fulfill that institution's requirements first.
Click to expand...

Or even rotate outside of your medical school's major academic hospital not as an away.
 
Gauss44 said:
I suspect that even if vaccinations are "required," exceptions might be made. I am not that familiar with the content of all vaccines, but hypothetically, if someone were severely allergic to an ingredient in a vaccination, a disability accommodation of waiving the vaccine might be underway. Similar exceptions for religious reasons.
Click to expand...

"Hi, I think it's okay for me to endanger the lives of the immunocompromised because my god says it's fine. Can I work here?"
 
Allen18328 said:
Appreciate it! I'm willing to bet there are a few that are optional on the flu. Most others are probably mandatory. I'll just have to do a bit of research.
Click to expand...

You'll be expected to get flu shots when you are on your rotations. The policies are probably dictated not by the school but rather by the hospital you're rotating in. One of the hospitals my school rotates at used to allow the "wear a mask all winter" option but now they don't and they'll escort students out of the building until they get the flu shot. They have a zero-tolerance policy for not being vaccinated against the flu, and I bet most places are going that way if they haven't already.

Face it -- if you're working in health care, chances are you'll have to be vaccinated if you work for anyone but yourself (so the entirety of med school and residency, and likely as an attending too). Apparently you're judging schools by their vaccination policies, so I might suggest you just pass on the whole being a doctor thing.
 
Allen18328 said:
Increasing studies are finding that we may in fact be weakening our immune systems by taking seasonal flu shots. It may turn out that patients are not being protected with mass vaccinations. Looking out for my health would also be looking out for theirs. Is that not the basic idea of mass immunization?
Click to expand...

The basic idea of mass immunization is actually the exact opposite. "Herd immunity." If the majority of the population is immunized, not only it protects that majority from the illness, it also protects the few that are not immunized for certain reasons, such as being immunocompromised.

When you see patients on ECMO for weeks or months because of the flu, maybe you'll change your tune.

There are a number of things wrong with the article you posted. First of all, it's from 2011 in response to the H1N1 outbreak in 2009. The flu vaccine now protects against H1N1. The 2009 vaccine did not protect against H1N1. Also, the article is from Australia. I don't know what form of the vaccine they use in Australia, but here you can either get the live attenuated vaccine (nasal spray) or the killed vaccine (shot). The live attenuated one builds the cellular immunity they talk about in the article. That immunity is very strong. However, that's the vaccine that has the potential to become virulent and end up causing a mild form of the disease, which is why it's contraindicated in immunocompromised individuals and even those in close contact with immunocompromised individuals (hence med students/doctors aren't supposed to get the live attenuated). The thing with the flu is that the virus mutates regularly, so while you might get a flu vaccine in 2014 and be protected from the projected common strains, there might be a strain that is not covered by the vaccine. Getting the vaccine or not getting the vaccine has no effect on how you respond to that strain. The only real data the article provides is "IUC admissions were cut from 700 during the first outbreak of swine flu down to about 60 admissions last winter as a result of the vaccination program."
 
Allen18328 said:
Judging? No. Wanting to make the best possible choice for my health and personal liberties, yes.
Click to expand...

Day 1 med school. The first words said to us during orientation by our dean: "Congratulations and welcome. It's not about you anymore."

As a med student (who actually learned how vaccines work in undergrad and again in med school), it is completely silly and irresponsible to not get a flu shot every year without some sort of medical/moral reason to not do so. As a health care provider, it really needs to go beyond your own morals as well, since you are helping care for people that probably don't share your morals and should not suffer because of your beliefs.

The fact is that every year, the flu shot is redesigned to protect against the 3-4 most dangerous strains going on during that particular flu season. For instance, as mentioned above, H1N1 is now covered by flu vaccines. 2009's vaccinations are not the same as 2014, or even 2011. Yes, you may get a strain of influenza that is not protected against by the flu shot. However, if you get one of the common, dangerous kind (the kinds most often treated by hospitals), you will be protected.. as will the folks that matter most: your patients. The point is not total protection - that's impossible with mutating viruses. Rather, the goal of the flu shot is to protect against the most common, dangerous viruses that someone living in civilization may encounter and thus prevent spread of those.

On the off chance that you are not trolling and actually don't understand, I recommend some old fashioned learning on the CDC's website. It's a lot of stuff, but if you spend some time there, it should clear up any misconceptions. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/index.htm

Get a flu shot.
 
Allen18328 said:
The immunity created by the vaccine is not the same as immunity that is created naturally.
Click to expand...

Everyone who has taken immunology already knows this. It's still better to be immunized than contract the disease. Polio, measles, mumps, smallpox, hepatitis...you really want to "naturally" build up your immunity to those things? The same goes for the flu. The flu is deadly.

Furthermore, it can actually leave a person more susceptible to the flu than they would have been otherwise.
Click to expand...

How so? I'd like to see actual data on this.
 
Allen18328 said:
The point of the study, which can be found via several sources, is that the immunity created by the vaccine is not the same as immunity that is created naturally. Furthermore, it can actually leave a person more susceptible to the flu than they would have been otherwise.

The study was an overview of data from Canada and Hong Kong, not Australia. If I remember correctly, there are several areas that the flu vaccine is formulated for and Canada falls into the same area is the USA.
Click to expand...

Edit: others beat me to it, ill let the med students club this guy.

Ismet just refuted your article by pointing out it is about H1N1.
 
I don't get why you wouldn't get the flu shot just for your own health. I got the H1N1 and it was horrible, I was out of classes for almost a week and ended up getting super behind. I would never want that to happen in med school
 
Allen18328 said:
The point of the study, which can be found via several sources, is that the immunity created by the vaccine is not the same as immunity that is created naturally. Furthermore, it can actually leave a person more susceptible to the flu than they would have been otherwise.

The study was an overview of data from Canada and Hong Kong, not Australia. If I remember correctly, there are several areas that the flu vaccine is formulated for and Canada falls into the same area is the USA.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point. Let's say the vaccine gives you somewhat less broad immunity than the natural virus -- so what? The point is not to maximize your special snowflake immune system, the point is to protect your patients. If you allow yourself to be vulnerable to the flu virus, you are putting your patients at risk. It's not completely about you. Get it?
 
Allen18328 said:
Because I don't need it. I have a naturally strong immune system and haven't been sick in years. I eat properly, rest, and exercise. I'm in my mid 20s and have nothing that has weakened my immune system.

That's why I don't need the flu shot. If I do get the flu my body will be able to defeat it naturally.
Click to expand...

:smack:
 
Allen18328 said:
You think H1N1 will be the last of its kind? The flu will stop evolving now that we have a vaccine that fights H1N1?
Click to expand...
No. Reread his post. The vaccine changes to the flu strains in that season so the vaccine evolves with its needs to it doesnt matter if the flu evolves and most of the time itll prevent most people from getting the flu, which is the point.
 
Allen18328 said:
The flu vaccine does NOT prevent the flu. Whether you have the shot or not your body can still be susceptible to it and it can still spread. The hopes with the shot is that you have immunity built up to fight it faster. I do not need the unnatural immunity.
Click to expand...
Hahaha, with beliefs like that, something tells me you neither have the grades or stats to get into med school anyway, so whatever.
 
I would think that rotations could be adjusted for anyone allergic or unable to get vaccinated. If you're not vaccinated for disease X, don't work around disease X. Simple.
 
Allen18328 said:
They will be great because I will actually do my own research while thinking outside of the box to get the real picture. I won't say "I don't care what a disease does as long as someone else might be able to create something to fix it one day".

I'll teach them to protect themselves naturally and only use vaccines or other medications when they are absolutely necessary and the rewards outweigh the risks.
Click to expand...
Do yourself and everyone else a favor and go to a naturopathic school. You do not belong in the world of allopathic medicine.
 
Gauss44 said:
I would think that rotations could be adjusted for anyone allergic or unable to get vaccinated. If you're not vaccinated for disease X, don't work around disease X. Simple.
Click to expand...

Uh...not quite...

It's not like germs don't exist outside the hospital. What if you are unvaccinated for rubella and contract it on the subway? You might not even know, because it often has mild symptoms. And then you see a pregnant patient?
 
Allen18328 said:
They will be great because I will actually do my own research while thinking outside of the box to get the real picture. I won't say "I don't care what a disease does as long as someone else might be able to create something to fix it one day".

I'll teach them to protect themselves naturally and only use vaccines or other medications when they are absolutely necessary and the rewards outweigh the risks.
Click to expand...
But the rewards do outweigh the risks. Also, if you think that medical doctors dont think for themselves and dont know anything about medicine then you are so far beyond help.
 
Allen18328 said:
Judging? No. Wanting to make the best possible choice for my health and personal liberties, yes.
Click to expand...

The other folks in this thread have hit it already, but your personal liberties take a backseat if you're putting others in danger. Even the most selfish of Libertarians acknowledge that their personal freedoms shouldn't encroach on the freedoms of others. If you want a job in health care, which is your choice...you have to play by the rules. One of the rules is that you get vaccinated for influenza every year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Question Question
Medical School Prerequisite Question
Replies
1
Views
945
LizzyM
LizzyM
D
Advice on Next Steps for Med School
Replies
13
Views
2K
Hollow Knight
Hollow Knight
W
School did not receive uploaded letter
Replies
2
Views
370
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
AsclepiusAdvisingLLC
Mr.Smile12
2025 AAMC Virtual Medical School Fair
Replies
1
Views
844
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
N
Help with school list
Replies
2
Views
448
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Top