Schools with a lot of non traditional students....?

[ocwaveoc]

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I went to a couple of interviews so far. Both of them were DO interviews. I thought that DO schools had a higher percentage of non trad students. The first interview had 18 people and the second had about 10. But, I was the ONLY interviewee over late 20's. Personally, I'd love to have a healthy percentage of non trad students in their late 20's to 30's in my class than say 95% of early to mid 20 students.

Do you know of any program that has especially high percentage of students in their late 20's to 30's?

 

[QofQuimica]

I went to a couple of interviews so far. Both of them were DO interviews. I thought that DO schools had a higher percentage of non trad students. The first interview had 18 people and the second had about 10. But, I was the ONLY interviewee over late 20's. Personally, I'd love to have a healthy percentage of non trad students in their late 20's to 30's in my class than say 95% of early to mid 20 students.

Do you know of any program that has especially high percentage of students in their late 20's to 30's?

L2D, don't go jumping on the OP now about how all schools that interview or accept you are nontrad friendly. 😉

OP, you really can't judge what the class composition will be like based on your interview day group. It's a very random, unrepresentative group compared to the entire final class of 100+ students. Go to the second looks (do DO schools have second looks?) or ask the admissions offices to have a current nontrad student contact you so you can ask about student life for nontrads.

 

[ShyRem]

At my interviews I was always the oldest one. However, in my class there is a fairly large handful of non-trads... and I'm not the oldest one in my class. Don't judge the school by your interview group, nor even by the students you see milling around. Non-trads tend to have a life outside of medical school, so if they're not in class they're likely to be home.

Don't pick a school based on what you think the age of the student body will be. Pick a school based on whether or not it's a good fit for you. Chances are fairly high you'll find other non-trads no matter where you go.

 

[Law2Doc]

L2D, don't go jumping on the OP now about how all schools that interview or accept you are nontrad friendly. 😉

OK. OP do a search on non-trad friendly if you want to see the zillions of debates Q and I have had on this subject. In pretty much all schools as a nontrad you will be a minority. But that doesn't mean you won't get in or help the school out by adding diversity, and the school may regard you positively because of what you bring to the table, and you will still get invited to all the trad parties and happy hours.

Age is a number. There are young-uns who are married, have kids, have home ownership, have worked while in school, have grad degrees, and often may have more in common with you than some of the other old fogeys. Look for the good fit and folks you can get along with, not folks who also have grey hair and high mileage.

 

[njbmd]

I went to a couple of interviews so far. Both of them were DO interviews. I thought that DO schools had a higher percentage of non trad students. The first interview had 18 people and the second had about 10. But, I was the ONLY interviewee over late 20's. Personally, I'd love to have a healthy percentage of non trad students in their late 20's to 30's in my class than say 95% of early to mid 20 students.

Do you know of any program that has especially high percentage of students in their late 20's to 30's?

Unfortunately, you are going to see about 95% of people in medical school in their early to mid 20s. The average age of freshman medical students is around 23-24 with little variation around that mean. This is simple the population that attends medical school.

In terms of who will be in your freshman class, it is very difficult to determine this at this point. You might interview (as I did) with all traditional students but find on orientation day that there are one or two folks over thirty in your class.

You are also going to find that in spite of age, you have more in common with your fellow classmates than you would first believe. Everyone quickly gets to the business of mastery of their coursework no matter what age they are. You all have to navigate clinical rotations, again, age doesn't matter.

The numbers of non-traditional applicants/students are simply not out there. Many people just don't want to undertake four (well 3 1/2) grueling years of academics for this career. Rather than attempting to choose your school by a percentage that is impossible to gage, look at the school where you believe you can excel academically. Does the school have good facilities and interested faculty? Is there a good variety of clinical rotation experiences? Does the school/clinical rotation sites attract the patient population that you would like to treat? Are you academically competitive enough to gain admission into the school?

Rather than attempting to figure out who is non-traditional (or not), try to figure out if you and the school are a good fit financially, logistically and academically. You might be the only person in your class that is over 25 or you may be among 1 - 2 % of folks. You actually won't know until orientation day and by then, it's too late to change your mind.

 

[Phoenix.]

For what it's worth, UVM really seems to cater to older non-trads and married students. My student tour guide during my interview day said how there are so many non-trads that the fresh out of college students there account for more like 10% of the class. He may have been exaggerating, but it definitely did seem like they have a very large group of non-trads there. I've heard that Vermont has a physician shortage, so my theory is that figure that OOS married applicants are more likely to settle down in Vermont than the fresh out of college set. *shrug* And of course there's all the other great stuff non-trads bring (maturity, perspective, experiences, etc.). 🙂

 

[postbacker]

Unfortunately, you are going to see about 95% of people in medical school in their early to mid 20s. The average age of freshman medical students is around 23-24 with little variation around that mean. This is simple the population that attends medical school.

In terms of who will be in your freshman class, it is very difficult to determine this at this point. You might interview (as I did) with all traditional students but find on orientation day that there are one or two folks over thirty in your class.

You are also going to find that in spite of age, you have more in common with your fellow classmates than you would first believe. Everyone quickly gets to the business of mastery of their coursework no matter what age they are. You all have to navigate clinical rotations, again, age doesn't matter.

The numbers of non-traditional applicants/students are simply not out there. Many people just don't want to undertake four (well 3 1/2) grueling years of academics for this career. Rather than attempting to choose your school by a percentage that is impossible to gage, look at the school where you believe you can excel academically. Does the school have good facilities and interested faculty? Is there a good variety of clinical rotation experiences? Does the school/clinical rotation sites attract the patient population that you would like to treat? Are you academically competitive enough to gain admission into the school?

Rather than attempting to figure out who is non-traditional (or not), try to figure out if you and the school are a good fit financially, logistically and academically. You might be the only person in your class that is over 25 or you may be among 1 - 2 % of folks. You actually won't know until orientation day and by then, it's too late to change your mind.

Super sound advice for ALL applicants...notice nothing about match lists or school ranking for selecting a med school...although njbmd does suggest figuring out if you are "academically" a good fit with potential schools, suggesting indirectly at least that you not apply to an excessive number of high ranked schools unless you fit the profile for successful matriculants...

A recent article in either Time or Newseek on non trads in med school admissions quoted someone in admissions at Penn and it seemed like they look for and accept a relatively high number of non-trads, but the OP needs to understand that non-trad does not necessarily = older applicants...non-trad today has much more to do with the undergraduate degree and perhaps work and life experiences after college...lots of the non-trads in my formal post bacc graduated from college in the last year or so, just in a liberal arts program...and thus they are definitely "non trad" but will be entering med school at age 23 to 25 or so...

 

[cabinbuilder]

LECOM-Erie has LOTs of non-trad, military. I wold say half of my class was married. 1/3 had kids. The age range was 19-45 while I was there. I fit right in the middle with 2 kids, second marriage and being 31. They like to have students from all 50 states and international, multi cultural student body.

 

[notdeadyet]

Unfortunately, you are going to see about 95% of people in medical school in their early to mid 20s. The average age of freshman medical students is around 23-24 with little variation around that mean.

Actually, 10% of entering students are over 30, so I think the age range might skew higher than you think.

OP- Everyone's giving good advice on choosing the right school based on personal fit. Med school is very much centered around your class (e.g. class of 2012), with somewhat limited contact with other classes, so how many nontrads were in the year before you is not as big a deal as you might think. Whatever school you get in to will undoubtedly have older and married students. You'll find your nitch.

 

[notdeadyet]

but the OP needs to understand that non-trad does not necessarily = older applicants...non-trad today has much more to do with the undergraduate degree and perhaps work and life experiences after college...

It's funny that when non-trad was a dirty word and folks felt it hurt their application, no one wanted to join, but now that non-trad appears to be possibly attractive, everyone wants on-board. I think folks have different definitions, but I would consider a fresh out of school liberal arts major still a traditional applicant. Non-trad to me occurs outside the classroom, either via previous military service, work after college, or time-off for child-raising. To folks in the application process, I'd say be careful about using the term "non-trad" with admissions folks if your criteria is major alone.

It all comes out in the wash. Personally, the main divide I see in medical students are those who worked after school and those who haven't. Even just a year or two of paychecks/bills and running your own life hand-to-mouth provides a real change in mindset from folks coming in straight from college life. Not better or worse, just different.

Ditto the UVM recommendation, btw. I was set to matriculate there for a while. Lots o' married nontrads run those halls.

 

[McSnappy]

Midwest allopathic with 20 over 30 in 2005, two years later approx. 27 out of 175. Ave age 24.something upon entering.

No one over 30 was asked to repeat/leave/etc after 1st year and None of us failed step 1 either😍

God, Stellar LORs from people of influence, professional succinct personal statement, Maturity, don't be afraid to be rejected 1st round, right place at the right time, determination.

 

[postbacker]

It's funny that when non-trad was a dirty word and folks felt it hurt their application, no one wanted to join, but now that non-trad appears to be possibly attractive, everyone wants on-board. I think folks have different definitions, but I would consider a fresh out of school liberal arts major still a traditional applicant. Non-trad to me occurs outside the classroom, either via previous military service, work after college, or time-off for child-raising. To folks in the application process, I'd say be careful about using the term "non-trad" with admissions folks if your criteria is major alone.

It all comes out in the wash. Personally, the main divide I see in medical students are those who worked after school and those who haven't. Even just a year or two of paychecks/bills and running your own life hand-to-mouth provides a real change in mindset from folks coming in straight from college life. Not better or worse, just different.

Ditto the UVM recommendation, btw. I was set to matriculate there for a while. Lots o' married nontrads run those halls.

I guess I draw the "non trad" dividing line in a slightly different place - someone with a lib arts degree who has to take the science pre-reqs in a post bacc, even if the post bacc is entered directly after UG, qualifies as "non-trad" to me (and I suspect this is the definition that medical schools use, too).

I think a "trad" is anyone who does enters med school directly after undergrad AND is also someone who took all the science pre-reqs as part of that undergrad degree...so in the case of a lib arts major who used UG electives to take the science pre-req who applies directly from school, I would consider as a traditional applicant, too....

I also agree that being a non-trad is now seen as a "plus" in med school admissions thus people are trying to figure out how to get that "label" themselves...

Regardless, the label matters far less in this process than the sum of alll the parts of a successful application, however those are obtained...

 

[Isoprop]

age only weakly correlates with maturity. for example, i am in your age bracket op, and i watch cartoons. 😀

 

[Just Joshin]

I guess I draw the "non trad" dividing line in a slightly different place - someone with a lib arts degree who has to take the science pre-reqs in a post bacc, even if the post bacc is entered directly after UG, qualifies as "non-trad" to me (and I suspect this is the definition that medical schools use, too).

I don't think this is the definition that med schools use. The adcoms I've talked to have been firm that non traditional to them means someone who's taken time off after graduating college and been out in the world, whether as a working professional or as a parent. People who don't major in science and then go on to do a post-bacc immediately upon graduation are still considered traditional students when it comes to categorizing them.

 

[postbacker]

I don't think this is the definition that med schools use. The adcoms I've talked to have been firm that non traditional to them means someone who's taken time off after graduating college and been out in the world, whether as a working professional or as a parent. People who don't major in science and then go on to do a post-bacc immediately upon graduation are still considered traditional students when it comes to categorizing them.

I completely disagree, but it really doesn't matter...either an applicant has the "right stuff" or not...an applicant with a liberal arts or humanities background is a de facto "non trad" under any definition of the term, with or without a "break" between UG and med school...

 

[Just Joshin]

I completely disagree, but it really doesn't matter...either an applicant has the "right stuff" or not...an applicant with a liberal arts or humanities background is a de facto "non trad" under any definition of the term, with or without a "break" between UG and med school...

Have you seen stats lately? There are more non-science majors being let into med school nowadays, which means the term non-traditional doesn't apply to them anymore.

 

[postbacker]

Have you seen stats lately? There are more non-science majors being let into med school nowadays, which means the term non-traditional doesn't apply to them anymore.

So you prefer adding the delimiter "older" because it makes non-trad somehow a more exclusive club? How does this make it more meaningful? Yes, the percentage of non-trad to trads is growing...and that is the point of the label...

Read the recent article (Newsweek, I think) on Penn's non-trad admits...they are lumping all of the people into the definition of non-trad that you are trying to exclude...

It wasn't all that long ago that non-trads were defined by gender and race - medicine used to be the exclusive domain of white males until about 40 years ago...so yes, the definition of non-trads has changed, but it still refers to "traditional" pre-meds who get a science UG and apply directly to medical school...everybody else is a non-trad...

 

[chemphd]

At UCSF, 60% of last year's entering class took at least a year off (mostly meaning they're 24 when they start), but I think that's heartening.

When you go on your interviews, you can ask the students giving the tour how many of their classmates did this- so far (2 interviews) i've been pleasantly surprized with this, and at the willingness of the schools to let students stop out for a semester for personal reasons.

 

[Just Joshin]

So you prefer adding the delimiter "older" because it makes non-trad somehow a more exclusive club?

I don't prefer anything. I'm telling you what adcoms have PERSONALLY told me. They have said that the term nontraditional refers to students who have taken time off after school to work and be in the real world for a while. That's what makes them so attractive to them -- there's more to them than academics. Obviously, their definition is in direct contradiction to yours if you consider nontraditionals the ones who go straight from one degree to a post-bacc. One of the points of emphasis in the adcoms (that I spoke to) definition of a nontraditional is that their resume is about MORE THAN ACADEMICS.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I went to a couple of interviews so far. Both of them were DO interviews. I thought that DO schools had a higher percentage of non trad students. The first interview had 18 people and the second had about 10. But, I was the ONLY interviewee over late 20's. Personally, I'd love to have a healthy percentage of non trad students in their late 20's to 30's in my class than say 95% of early to mid 20 students.

Do you know of any program that has especially high percentage of students in their late 20's to 30's?

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just about any U.S. medical school is bound to have some non-traditionals in the class. But we are usually a very small number - it takes an incredible amount of determination (or insanity) to give up a career after age 30 to go back to school. Although you see lots of us non-traditionals on the SDN forums, in actuality we're always I'm guessing far less than 5% of total applicants - and a number much lower than that - more like 2-3% - is probably closer to right.

In my allopathic class of roughly 160, there are only three or four that I can think of who are over 30 years of age. I am the only one who is over 40, and I am now 46 in my second year of school.

My point is, it won't matter as much as you think it will in terms of feeling isolated. Traditional medical students who are mature enough to get into medical school are not typical immature 20-somethings. Although I am indeed friends with the non-trads in my class, I have also become very close to the traditional students in my module. Although I am 20+ years older, I've found that we're all reaching for the same goal and we have much more in common than differences due to age. It actually amazes me how many medical students have similar personalities and think in much the same ways. While I was hesitant to dive-in to class social activities at first, now I go to most of the parties and other class events as well as my module's social activites. I feel at home with people I know quite well and no longer think about my age all that much.

I just don't date anybody 20+ years younger. That wouldn't be attractive. 🙂 I'm the only non-trad in our class who is single.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't think this is the definition that med schools use. The adcoms I've talked to have been firm that non traditional to them means someone who's taken time off after graduating college and been out in the world, whether as a working professional or as a parent. People who don't major in science and then go on to do a post-bacc immediately upon graduation are still considered traditional students when it comes to categorizing them.

This is basically how my school defines nontrads. A person who took one year off to do a post bacc after getting a liberal arts degree or even to work wouldn't be classified as a nontrad here, anyway. It's very common for people to take a year or two off; probably at least half the class would be "nontrad" if 1+ year off was your definition.

 

[QofQuimica]

I just don't date anybody 20+ years younger. That wouldn't be attractive. 🙂 I'm the only non-trad in our class who is single.

This is good advice no matter how old you are--intraclass dating seems to inevitably lead to drama.

 

[notdeadyet]

Just about any U.S. medical school is bound to have some non-traditionals in the class. But we are usually a very small number - it takes an incredible amount of determination (or insanity) to give up a career after age 30 to go back to school. Although you see lots of us non-traditionals on the SDN forums, in actuality we're always I'm guessing far less than 5% of total applicants - and a number much lower than that - more like 2-3% - is probably closer to right.

Actually, AAMC data says that 10% of entering class is 30+. It's a more sizable group than you'd think. Sounds like your class may skew young. Good for intermurals, not so good for reminescing about the 80's.

 

[notdeadyet]

either an applicant has the "right stuff" or not...

Amen to that.