Schools with best scholarship / financial aid opps.

[LeFauconPelerin]

Greetings, all. A quick question for those of you who live/eat/breathe these things.

I've managed to convince my spouse that I've really regretted not pursuing med school fresh out of undergrad. She's supportive, but is making [only partially] tongue-in-cheek statements about only pursuing med school someplace it'll be free.

I know this is feasible, even for non-MD/PhD folks, 'cause a guy who graduated before me in undergrad got a full ride to Wayne State U. (in-state; we did undergrad in MI) with somewhat lower academic qualifications than I.

That said, while I want to pursue medicine for its own sake, I've also got a deep-seated need for external validation that would probably prevent me from pursuing med school at a place whose 'brand name' wasn't up to some totally arbitrary level in my mind.**

So the question is: which schools out there that have decent-to-great names also offer decent-to-great financial aid of the grant/scholarship variety?

By the way, I live in CA.

**I'm aware that name brand does not necessarily have anything to do with actual *quality* of education. We're talking about a personal, emotional failing here, not logic. So please no flaming, etc.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

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[searun]

Your self awareness is refreshing. You need to distinguish between merit financial aid and need based aid. Which is your category, or is it both? Some of the Ivy League med schools have some nice need based aid, which could satisfy your financial issues and your ego issues.

 

[pOrtEnt]

Merit at UofC Pritzker SOM

 

[chessknt]

In general, merit-based aid is pretty scarce. Full rides (everything) are very rare except at the most well-endowed schools (if you get accepted to Harvard AND stand out among the acceptees, then yea you deserve it). Full tuition (no living expenses though) is slightly more common, but still nothing to bet on. Half/part tuition based on merit alone is a lot more common.

Need-based aid is much more available for those that qualify. In the UCs, your need status alone can net you full tuition + some living expenses, as well as very generous school loans. Im sure its even better at well-endowed private schools. Poorer private schools/OOS schools will be far less generous. This is a good system IMO because it assists people who came from non-doctor/poorer backgrounds that are more likely to have accumulated debt/have no parental support to fall back on.

 

[TAWS]

For a full ride, your best bet is the Health Professions Scholarship Program offered by the military. They will pay for your tuition, books, give you a stipend for your commitment to serve.

You can find more information at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

 

[JJMrK]

Stanford is pretty well known for graduating students with relatively low debt. Case Western's CCLCM program offers a full tuition scholarship. Mayo is also pretty generous with financial aid.

 

[randombetch]

For a full ride, your best bet is the Health Professions Scholarship Program offered by the military. They will pay for your tuition, books, give you a stipend for your commitment to serve.

You can find more information at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

Don't do this program ever. Unless you solely want to serve your country - which then would make it a great option (but doesn't sound like that's the case).

 

[MegaProjectile]

I've heard Pritzker is the undisputed king of aids.

 

[LeFauconPelerin]

@randombetch:

I'm perfectly happy to serve my country -- indeed, one of the fellowships I've completed carries with it a service requirement -- I simply would not choose to do so by military means. Growing up someplace where U.S.-military-trained death squads go around assassinating folks and terrorizing villagers tends to turn one off the armed forces, even if their service to the country is otherwise admirable. That, and there are a couple of guys in my small group from church who are currently serving as physicians and dentists in the Navy, and it's fairly clear that this is not a path my wife would appreciate my taking. Thank you for the suggestion, though.

@searun:

Comin' up on 30, with a wife and child, and (at the moment) negative net worth because of my spouse's educational loans. No help forthcoming from Mom and Dad, but my wife's an OT, so she makes a decent living. I have zero sense for the criteria used by FinAid decision-makers, but I can't imagine we'd get just tons of need-based aid. So I guess merit is the thing to hope for...or, alternatively, one of those scholarships whereby you make a commitment to service in a neglected part of the world/country. Since that's what I want to do anyway, that wouldn't be an additional hardship.

@all:

I've been poking around on various schools' websites, and I see long lists of endowed scholarships and stuff...but none of them state what the value of each award would be. Is the best approach to just shoot the FinAid folks at these schools an e-mail and say "Hey, what's the deal with ...?" Or is that likely to get me the "RTFM, man. RTFM." response?

 

[BBender716]

i've heard pritzker is the undisputed king of aids.

+1

 

[rockaction]

I've heard Pritzker is the undisputed king of aids.

Man I wish I applied there. And not just for that reason.

 

[KMFDM]

According to Yale, they have the most generous need-based aid, followed by Harvard.

 

[jckut10]

.

 

[chessknt]

I think most people call full tuition a full ride. More often than not, living costs are equal to or greater than tuition, so its hardly a full ride.

 

[Pianoman32]

For a full ride, your best bet is the Health Professions Scholarship Program offered by the military. They will pay for your tuition, books, give you a stipend for your commitment to serve.

You can find more information at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

Or if you're really smart, marry someone in the military and they can transfer their post 9/11 gi bill to you!!!! This will cover all of your living expenses and all of your tuition in most states.

 

[sgtbrushes]

Or if you're really smart, marry someone in the military and they can transfer their post 9/11 gi bill to you!!!! This will cover all of your living expenses and all of your tuition in most states.

I think you said this partially in jest, but the military member must have served for 10 years in order to transfer it. Believe me, I wish I could transfer benefits to my wife.

 

[BBender716]

I think you said this partially in jest, but the military member must have served for 10 years in order to transfer it. Believe me, I wish I could transfer benefits to my wife.

I love your cookie monster avatar

 

[CalBear2009]

This may be a reach, but since you are from Cali, I thought I would post it. It probably might not apply, but there are probably many other readers who it would apply to.

If you qualify as a dependent or spouse of someone who has a military related disability, the Cal Vet program will cover tuition and fees at a University of California institution. My dad called, and this covers medical school, as long as it is from a state school. There are a couple stipulations, and you have to file a claim, but it might be worth it. Hopefully it works out for me.

 

[LeFauconPelerin]

@CalBear:

Unfortunately, I'm a transplant to CA, not a native...and my USAA membership comes from 2 generations back. (Strong pacifist streak in the generation before mine.) Thanks for the info., though -- that's a fascinating wrinkle. Ditto for Pianoman's suggestion. I had no idea such possibilities existed. It'll be good to be able to share those nuggets with others.

@jckut10:

I'd like to second your emotion. Such a list would be a wonderful resource indeed. Anyone know whether there'd be a way to compile such a list here on SDN?

 

[chessknt]

It would be pointless to have access to that list. Dont apply based on whether or not you think you'll get aid, its a dumb strategy. Apply where you think you can get accepted/would actually go, then look at the finaid packages and decide from there.

 

[LeFauconPelerin]

@ChessKnt:

I appreciate your 2 cents, but I disagree completely. Your "dumb strategy" is my "being considerate of my family's needs."

Were I a single kid straight out of undergrad who intended to make megabucks as a physician in the U.S., and all I cared about in life was becoming a physician, then sure...I'd follow your logic. But I have a wife and child to provide for, and my vocation in life (near as I can discern it) involves working on behalf of the dispossessed in parts of the world a lot of our peers will never hear about on the news, let alone actually visit. ...and because such career choices tend not to pay all that well, it would be irresponsible of me to make a decision without taking into account my capacity to repay student loans, etc.

 

[chessknt]

Its a dumb strategy because it is totally useless. Just because a school was generous in the past doesnt guarantee they will be in the future, nor does it guarantee that they will be generous specifically to you. You apply to where you can get in, then look at the finaid. Dont look at the finaid first (beyond outrageous tuition like tufts/OOS public schools), then apply to generous schools because guess what--you might not get accepted.

Its also nice that you have such a strong rigid framework in which you intend to practice, but you should probably get in to medical school first, then get through it, then finish your residency before you decide what the rest of your life's financial situation is going to be like. If finances are of chief concern then I would recommend saving up ~100k or so and using that fund to supplement your education debt or apply the the health service corps scholarship. Either way, putting all your chips on theoretical finaid packages from schools you havent even interviewed at is going to really kill your chances of ending up somewhere you want to be.

 

[LeFauconPelerin]

@ChessKnt:

I appreciate your being so solicitous of me, wanting to make sure I don't put the cart before the horse, etc. etc. Yes, I know; 'past performance is no guarantor of future results'. It's the first thing you learn in any elementary econ class when the topic of the stock market arises.

That said, if one of the major concerns for my family is whether it even makes sense to pursue medical school from a financial standpoint, it would be foolish to not at least try to identify which schools have the highest 'ceiling' when it comes to grant-type financial aid. Some folks get heavily invested in the school's name (I'm somewhat guilty of that); others choose on the basis of geographic location; others based on the strength of the particular program; others on the basis of pass/fail grading. Why should my electing to make financial aid availability the top determinant of my interest in a school be any less valid?

Its also nice that you have such a strong rigid framework in which you intend to practice, but you should probably get in to medical school first, then get through it, then finish your residency before you decide what the rest of your life's financial situation is going to be like.

I get the sense you think I'm getting ahead of myself, and I can appreciate your wanting to caution me against that. On the other hand, I don't happen to be one of those folks who can't imagine going through life as anything other than a doctor. Frankly, while I might not be *quite* as happy if I instead spent my career serving abroad in the foreign service, working in refugee camps, or helping to run public health programs, I could certainly survive. i.e., I feel I can afford to choose on the basis of fiscal responsibility whether to pursue medical school, because it's not the ONLY thing I could see myself doing.

Either way, putting all your chips on theoretical finaid packages from schools you havent even interviewed at is going to really kill your chances of ending up somewhere you want to be.

All of the above noted, I also don't recall saying anywhere that the ONLY places I would consider applying would be those with generous aid packages. I certainly know better than to do that. The thing is, if I were to apply to UCSD and get a full ride (whether that means full tuition or tuition + living expenses), going would be a no-brainer. If I were to apply to Stanford and get accepted, but not receive any money, well...my wife and I might decide that continuing down my current career path would be a wiser decision than digging ourselves a hole.

So while I appreciate your concern, ChessKnt, I'd like to redirect the thread back to the point that arose a couple of posts ago: does a list of the most generous schools already exist somewhere on SDN? If not, is there a way to create one?

 

[chessknt]

The answer to that is no, this list does not exist. Even if it did, it would be very different now due to the economy and its impact on gift giving/govt support.

Is it possible top create one? Maybe. For it to be accurate you'd have to call every medical school's finaid office and ask them how many full tuition and full tuition+ expenses MERIT (be sure to emphasize this, you dont want to look at need) scholarships they gave last year and the year before. Chug down the list and you'll have your answer.

 

[ButImLETired]

Part of the issue, too, is that the economy has forced a lot of money to be shuffled around and some scholarships have disappeared. I know Vanderbilt is notoriously generous (we give tons of scholarships) and while "full rides" (tuition plus living) used to exist, they don't anymore and now we only have full-tuition merit scholarships, although need-based aid has increased. I remember from when I interviewed that financial aid at every school seemed a lot more conservative in giving people scholarships and such. So, even if we were to list the schools that are notorious for giving tons of money, it may not apply this year, next year, or maybe ever again.

 

[bamtuba]

Greetings, all. A quick question for those of you who live/eat/breathe these things.

I've managed to convince my spouse that I've really regretted not pursuing med school fresh out of undergrad. She's supportive, but is making [only partially] tongue-in-cheek statements about only pursuing med school someplace it'll be free.

I know this is feasible, even for non-MD/PhD folks, 'cause a guy who graduated before me in undergrad got a full ride to Wayne State U. (in-state; we did undergrad in MI) with somewhat lower academic qualifications than I.

That said, while I want to pursue medicine for its own sake, I've also got a deep-seated need for external validation that would probably prevent me from pursuing med school at a place whose 'brand name' wasn't up to some totally arbitrary level in my mind.**

So the question is: which schools out there that have decent-to-great names also offer decent-to-great financial aid of the grant/scholarship variety?

By the way, I live in CA.

**I'm aware that name brand does not necessarily have anything to do with actual *quality* of education. We're talking about a personal, emotional failing here, not logic. So please no flaming, etc.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

First, thank you for being honest about your "need" to consider "big name" schools. No flaming needed when you know why you want to go somewhere.

Secondly, financial aid was certainly a consideration of mine when applying as I too am approaching 30 and have a wife (no kids yet) and have a LOT of undergrad debt as I was an independent student.

Anyhow, I would recommend checking out Mayo as well as those other schools listed by other posters.

Having interviewed there (and 11 other places) I can tell you that it is one of the MOST family friendly schools I personally visited (if you don't mind the cold...). Tuition and other things like cost for the board exams, etc. is paid for (everyone gets at least 1/2 tuition, some get more, and there is also need-based aid) by the school.

 

[chessknt]

Most people cant even get an interview at Mayo, let alone an acceptance. If the OP is hellbent on using past financial aid packages as his primary application factor he needs to call the schools' finaid offices and ask them.

 

[LeFauconPelerin]

The answer to that is no, this list does not exist. Even if it did, it would be very different now due to the economy and its impact on gift giving/govt support.

Is it possible top create one? Maybe. For it to be accurate you'd have to call every medical school's finaid office and ask them how many full tuition and full tuition+ expenses MERIT (be sure to emphasize this, you dont want to look at need) scholarships they gave last year and the year before. Chug down the list and you'll have your answer.

That's the answer I was ultimately looking for, ChessKnt. Thank you -- now I know that if I decide to invest the time and energy into doing that legwork I won't be reinventing the wheel.

@bamtuba:

My wife did one of her occupational therapy internships at Mayo and *raved* about it. Maybe I ought to consider applying there, especially in light of your counsel regarding financial aid. On the other hand, our flight from Michigan winters *did* take us all the way to West Africa, and that only after four years. Imagine what 4+ more in Minnesota would do! We might wind up in Qatar or the UAE. Now *that* would be cool.

@'ZenFireZeeMissILES':

Thank you for your input. That's a good point, and one that I might not have considered, given that I've never really thought twice about *where* that money comes from. I confess it hadn't occurred to me that it might be continual giving that paid for scholarships...I'd sort of assumed it would be endowments which, while perhaps slightly reduced by the market fluctuations and/or Madoff, would still be largely intact.

 

[Ableton]

I've heard Pritzker is the undisputed king of aids.

I'd say Mayo is, hands down. They give a scholarship to almost everyone.

 

[bfg9000]

For merit:

Pritzker gives 8-10 full-tuition scholarships each year.

Other schools, I'm not sure if it's "tuition" or "ride" (includes living expenses). Tuition is generally around $40,000, and living expenses can be around $30,000--obviously with variation.

Wash U gives ~12 "fulls" each year. Another amazing (need-based) point: they also give half your EFC in grants. Then they cut the EFC in half again if you have a sibling in school.

UPenn and UMich also give a few "fulls" each year.

UPitt and Vanderbilt give significant merit-based (unsure how much) as well.

PS. Of course this could change in coming years, but all of the info I've listed here is based on what each school has specifically said to us during the interview day, this cycle. So I believe this is fairly accurate and timely.

OP, feel free to PM me for more info. I'm also cognizant regarding money. I've gone on a number of interviews this cycle and have asked questions about each respective school's finaid situation (Need- and merit-based).

 

[T12]

TTUHSC Paul L. Foster SOM (El Paso, TX) gives full tuition and fees (what I call a full-ride) to about half its class. Understand though, that you will be living about 5 minutes from one of the most dangerous areas in the world and 5 HOURS from absolutely anything else. Hence, fat scholarships.

 

[bamtuba]

Most people cant even get an interview at Mayo, let alone an acceptance. If the OP is hellbent on using past financial aid packages as his primary application factor he needs to call the schools' finaid offices and ask them.

I agree. But I couldn't get an interview at several schools that I thought (and was told by alumni of those schools) were a "sure thing" and ended up getting a WL at Hopkins and an acceptance at Mayo. I was AMAZED and incredibly HUMBLED by this process, but I don't regret giving it a go for one second.

You gotta try!

But, I agree calling around is a good idea.

 

[txprodigal]

TTUHSC Paul L. Foster SOM (El Paso, TX) gives full tuition and fees (what I call a full-ride) to about half its class. Understand though, that you will be living about 5 minutes from one of the most dangerous areas in the world and 5 HOURS from absolutely anything else. Hence, fat scholarships.

El Paso is one of the safest cities in the country. As long as you're not stupid (crossing the border in the middle of the night), you'll be fine. Just google it if you don't believe me.

I think the main reason why they offer such large scholarships is its relatively new status. Since it is a new medical school, it is trying to attract students by using financial incentives.

 

[T12]

El Paso is one of the safest cities in the country. As long as you're not stupid (crossing the border in the middle of the night), you'll be fine. Just google it if you don't believe me.

I think the main reason why they offer such large scholarships is its relatively new status. Since it is a new medical school, it is trying to attract students by using financial incentives.

Not that I don't believe you, but your own doubt as to the validity of that statement is implicit in your unprovoked invitation for me google it if I don't believe you.

And for me, 5 hours from anything is worse than 5 minutes from a drug war, so I don't want you to think that was my only focus. Still a GREAT deal, even if its on Mars.