School's with minimum GPA requirements for MD/PhD students

[1Path]

I was a bit suprised to learn to some MD/PhD programs require students to maintain a certain GPA. So do you guys mind making a list of those schools and what the GPA requirement is? Thanks!

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[meowkat444]

that doesn't seem easily learnable. where did you hear that?

I doubt there is a hard-and-fast cutoff?? but it should be good...

course, i didn't apply yet.

 

[jjmack]

I remember that when I was interviewing a case student told me they are "suppose" to be in a certain % of the class. I don't remember the details.

 

[Circumflex]

We have to maintain a High Pass average.

 

[1Path]

that doesn't seem easily learnable. where did you hear that?

I doubt there is a hard-and-fast cutoff??

I saw it on a school's MSTP website that students were required to maintain at least a 3.0 GPA, including during med school. I thinking this may be an MSTP thing and if so, I guess I'm glad I'm only applying to one of those.

As for whether or not this SHOULD be a requirement, I disagree primarily because I have a life outside of school. And excluding grad school, I seriousy doubt a "C" average in med school = dumb. I suspect many parents in med school would have fantastic GPA's if they didn't have family responsibilities, but you make choices in life based on what's important to you. Besides that, I've never in my entire life met a "dummy" with both an MD and PhD degree.

So yeah, I was kinda counting on shounting that mantra during med school that seems to also apply to folks who don't have families, P = MD !!!

 

[ThatOne]

An MSTP is pretty much a scholarship, largely based on past scholastic achievement. Most scholarships I've heard of require that one maintains a high level of academic achievement. So, it didn't surprise me to see that clause on a number of website / documents when I was applying.

Furthermore, it's sad but very true that physician-scientist have to make a number of sacrifices in their life outside their careers. Several successful ones that I spoke to talked about how they had to sacrifice their family and the number of hours they got to sleep a night. One even said at one point he wasn't sure his kids knew who he was!

 

[Neuronix]

Anyone ever hear of a student being tossed out of MSTP back to the medical school for this kind of thing? Somehow I just can't imagine a MD/PhD program saying "Yeah, we invested $60,000 dollars into you in first year, but your GPA is 2.9. Sorry, go back to medical school." What is a 3.0 anyways? Aren't all med schools P/F or some variant these days?

I could be wrong, but I bet these "GPA" requirements aren't enforced. I would stay wayyyyy clear of any program that did enforce a rule like this.

 

[1Path]

I could be wrong, but I bet these "GPA" requirements aren't enforced. I would stay wayyyyy clear of any program that did enforce a rule like this.

So perhaps what I should really be trying to avoid are schools that give letter grades.

 

[qtpai]

I saw it on a school's MSTP website that students were required to maintain at least a 3.0 GPA, including during med school. I thinking this may be an MSTP thing and if so, I guess I'm glad I'm only applying to one of those.

As for whether or not this SHOULD be a requirement, I disagree primarily because I have a life outside of school. And excluding grad school, I seriousy doubt a "C" average in med school = dumb. I suspect many parents in med school would have fantastic GPA's if they didn't have family responsibilities, but you make choices in life based on what's important to you. Besides that, I've never in my entire life met a "dummy" with both an MD and PhD degree.

So yeah, I was kinda counting on shounting that mantra during med school that seems to also apply to folks who don't have families, P = MD !!!

"C" average in med school = did not learn the material as well as one should have. Why should someone be trained MSTP if they aren't going to learn the material? Might as well just do a PhD and skip out of the MD.

 

[Neuronix]

"C" average in med school = did not learn the material as well as one should have. Why should someone be trained MSTP if they aren't going to learn the material? Might as well just do a PhD and skip out of the MD.

A "C" average in med school is more likely to result from an inability to read your professor's minds, IMO. Lots of strange exams being given to a group of overachievers memorizing every little detail. If my school had grades I would certainly have had a "C" average, yet I scored well above average on the boards.

This is why residency programs almost entirely don't care or place minimal weighting on basic science grades.

As for maintaining a HP average in clinics, well that behooves you, but at the same time, you're going to be almost finished and have the MSTP throw you out for your grades not being good enough? When pigs fly!

 

[Neuronix]

"C" average in med school = did not learn the material as well as one should have. Why should someone be trained MSTP if they aren't going to learn the material? Might as well just do a PhD and skip out of the MD.

A "C" average in med school is more likely to result from an inability to read your professor's minds, IMO. Lots of strange exams being given to a group of overachievers memorizing every little detail. If my school had grades I would certainly have had a "C" average, yet I scored well above average on the boards.

This is why residency programs almost entirely don't care or place minimal weighting on basic science grades. It's also a big reason why so many medical schools are heading towards P/F, especially for those first two years.

As for maintaining a HP average in clinics, well that behooves you, but at the same time, you're going to be almost finished and have the MSTP throw you out for your grades not being good enough? When pigs fly!

 

[1Path]

"C" average in med school = did not learn the material as well as one should have. Why should someone be trained MSTP if they aren't going to learn the material? Might as well just do a PhD and skip out of the MD.

Are you aware that you have to maintain a "B" average in grad school? Or are you one of those people who actually think grad school is easier than med school. And who says a "C" average means you haven't learned anything especially in med school? Were all of the doctors you've ever seen in your life "B" students in med school? Or do you were a wrist band that says you only want to be treated by docs who had "B" averages in med school?

See, it's comments like these which justify implementing a minimum age/life experience requirement BEFORE matriculation into med school!

 

[sciencewonk]

I remember that when I was interviewing a case student told me they are "suppose" to be in a certain % of the class. I don't remember the details.

Not true, although they are given grades in the P/F system - you do as well as you can. I think all MSTP directors want their students at the top.

 

[jjmack]

Not true, although they are given grades in the P/F system - you do as well as you can. I think all MSTP directors want their students at the top.

well all i said is that is what current students told me when I was interviewing. do you go to case?

 

[Mr. Tee]

I think Emory has a B average requirement.

 

[strangeglove]

The programs that have such requirements are probably those that are conerned about their future funding, since GPA is probably something that the NIH looks at when they review MSTP grants. That's only a guess, but my gut tells me that one should stay away from any program that has strict GPA requriements for the first 2 years of medical school. And yes, it is much easier to get good grades in grad school classes than in medical school classes. What is hard about graduate school is not the classwork, but the work of your dissertation.

 

[1Path]

And yes, it is much easier to get good grades in grad school classes than in medical school classes. What is hard about graduate school is not the classwork, but the work of your dissertation.

I guess this depends on the school and whether or not profs "cater" grade wise to MD/PhD students. I've recently completed Medical Histology with med students and Neuropharmacology with grad students. I'd take the Medical Histology loonng before Neuropharm and I hope to be a Pathologist one day!

And the dissertation being the hard part? No way!! MAYBE the dissertation committee stuff is tough but the research? I say bring it on, baby!

 

[hawkeey]

At UTSW there is a A/B+/B/C curved system still in use with preset cutoffs. A few years ago the cutoffs mattered more because everyone did really well on the tests.

These days because of Dean Gilman (of G protein Nobel fame) the tests produce more of a curve and the grades are assigned 20/30/30/20 with a 75% cutoff for passing with a C.

Meanwhile, Dr. Brown (of cholesterol Nobel fame) , director of the program advises students that its fine to get a B, and that he rather have students get a B while pondering about science rather than get an A just memorizing only the facts.

So between Brown and Gilman is a something of a clash of philosophies between Nobel laureates. It's rather confusing.

Student mostly get kicked out off the program only if they start failing courses.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1985/ (info about Dr. brown)

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1994/ (info about Dr. Gilman)

 

[hawkeey]

We have to maintain a High Pass average.

So if you are supposed to maintain a high pass average, does that mean if you just 'pass' a course then you are out of the program? What is considered high pass at your school.

 

[strangeglove]

I say bring it on, baby!

Hmmm...this sounds rather like a certain president at the beginning of a certain war that quickly became a quagmire.

 

[Circumflex]

So if you are supposed to maintain a high pass average, does that mean if you just 'pass' a course then you are out of the program? What is considered high pass at your school.

No, you just have to maintain a High Pass average - meaning for any "Passes," you have to offset them with "Honors" or "High Passes" in classes that count for more credits (eg. gross anatomy is worth more hours than Biochem). I don't know how well this is enforced, but all students are very aware of the rule. I'm in my last year of med school, so I can't even remember the cutoffs. I know 75% is the lowest "pass."

 

[hawkeey]

No, you just have to maintain a High Pass average - meaning for any "Passes," you have to offset them with "Honors" or "High Passes" in classes that count for more credits (eg. gross anatomy is worth more hours than Biochem). I don't know how well this is enforced, but all students are very aware of the rule. I'm in my last year of med school, so I can't even remember the cutoffs. I know 75% is the lowest "pass."

Ah, that makes more sense now. I was thinking that 'high pass' was the highest grade. If the school is going to have that much differentiation, then it might as well just have letter grades.... otherwise its just a show to keep people happy.