Scientific Poll

[Enkidu]

Well - some posters on this forum have been very vocal about the job market, even to the point of warning students to not go into pathology at all. Other posters seem to have quite a positive outlook about the job market and are suggesting that they know of no pathologists who don't get jobs.

I'm curious to know, for those of you out of fellowship only, what was your personal experience in finding a job. Thanks for your replies!

Edit: Oh - ignore the fact that I wrote "an good position" and "an great position". I guess I can't edit that now.

Edit: Also - just to be clear, I'm looking for results from a job search after fellowship. I'm assuming that at least one fellowship is required to get a good job, so I'm not interested in the difficulties that people faced who looked for a job without doing a fellowship.

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[gbwillner]

as long as people are honest, this should be interesting...

 

[Enkidu]

as long as people are honest, this should be interesting...

Based on a few results, I predict that it will look more or less gaussian centered around people who found great jobs that they plan on continuing in. I doubt that there will be *any* unemployed pathologists voting in this either.

Edit: Oh, on further review of the data, it looks like the data might end up not even being gaussian after all, but skewed towards better job seeking experiences. I hope we can keep getting responses to fill that out a bit. Of course, these forums are a self-selecting group - but if anything I'd say that the forum attracts people who are more disgruntled, so that shouldn't underlie any results that skew to the positive.

 

[KCShaw]

Might consider limiting by certain fellowships. At least, I think it's reasonably accepted or at least assumed that the FP market is substantially different than the surgpath market.

 

[Enkidu]

Might consider limiting by certain fellowships. At least, I think it's reasonably accepted or at least assumed that the FP market is substantially different than the surgpath market.

Good thought, but I'm also looking at this poll as a data for medical students who may be interested in pathology. Considering that most medical students who are contemplating pathology won't have a very clear idea of what fellowship they may want to do, I don't want to exclude any subspecialty. (Although they maybe so sold on pathology that they've already done multiple elective rotations and have specific subspecialty plans, but in that case they probably won't be swayed by a poll like this one.)

Also - since this poll is limited to attending pathologists and graduating fellows, I'm worried that if I broke it down by subspecialty I wouldn't get enough n to form a clear impression.

 

[Circumflex]

Yeah, most of us FPs are generally more satisfied and are in a better job market with more demand than supply.

 

[Enkidu]

So, apparently we are getting some "unemployed" pathologist votes. I'm curious if they consist of graduating fellows who have not yet found a job, but who ultimately will. I realize that this is an anonymous poll, but it would be nice if they could comment so we could get a sense of their particular circumstances.

 

[icpshootyz]

So, apparently we are getting some "unemployed" pathologist votes. I'm curious if they consist of graduating fellows who have not yet found a job, but who ultimately will. I realize that this is an anonymous poll, but it would be nice if they could comment so we could get a sense of their particular circumstances.

That's true. If you're truly unemployed as a pathologist, then you cannot still be in fellowship or training somewhere. It would have to mean you cannot find work as a pathologist at all after training, but may be employed in some other field (flipping burgers, for instance).

 

[gbwillner]

That's true. If you're truly unemployed as a pathologist, then you cannot still be in fellowship or training somewhere. It would have to mean you cannot find work as a pathologist at all after training, but may be employed in some other field (flipping burgers, for instance).

Unless the people who voted "unemployed" come out and say (on an anonymous forum) that they are no longer in training and give us more info about their specific experience I would entirely dismiss those votes.

 

[Pingu]

I took a position with some undesirable aspects and turned it into a great position. Not sure how I should vote for that.

 

[rollwithit]

I took a position with some undesirable aspects and turned it into a great position. Not sure how I should vote for that.

Did the position and circumstance change or did your perception of what was undesirable change? If the latter, I say vote "accepted great and plan on remaining" If the former, vote one of the two immediately below it depending on whether the job you accepted was undesirable altogether or good despite the bad things about it.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I selected "I accepted an great position that I plan on remaining in" because that was how I felt.

Little did I know the lab would be sold in less than a year and we would be thrown under the bus shortly there after. So much for job security.

Since then its been taking whatever I can find in the area I have roots, trying my best to get "learned helplessness" and be content till I move on to a new career.

 

[brainsalads]

I am doing hemepath and dermpath fellowships at a top tier places, will I have a hard time finding a good job with reasonable pay and hours??

 

[deleted314957]

It depends on how you define a "good job", "reasonable pay" and "reasonable hours". What is considered reasonable pay by some, sucks for others. same for hours.

It does not seem to be getting easier, work loads are going up and money is going down.

 

[brainsalads]

$300+K, job hours 8-5?

 

[Enkidu]

It depends on how you define a "good job", "reasonable pay" and "reasonable hours". What is considered reasonable pay by some, sucks for others. same for hours.

It does not seem to be getting easier, work loads are going up and money is going down.

For the purposes of this poll people are free to define for themselves what they consider to be desirable or undesirable. Clearly expectations differ between subspecialties and across the academic/community divide.

 

[icpshootyz]

I am doing hemepath and dermpath fellowships at a top tier places, will I have a hard time finding a good job with reasonable pay and hours??

Will depend a lot more on your geographic limitations. Those jobs exist, they just might not exist where you're willing to work. If you have no geographic limitations then you might be fine.

 

[rollwithit]

I am doing hemepath and dermpath fellowships at a top tier places, will I have a hard time finding a good job with reasonable pay and hours??

I'm not trying to be rude to you specifically, but isn't it a little late to be asking that question? If you are a fellow and haven't used your existing network of contacts (former residents/fellows, local attendings, people you've met at conferences, etc.) to help answer that question yet, you may have a tough time - top tier institution or not.

 

[pathstudent]

$300+K, job hours 8-5?

That would be a sheit job in private practice if you were doing general path and a super sheit job if you were doing full time derm and heme. Although it would be a good first year salary.

 

[brainsalads]

I havent started looking yet, still have one year of residency left and then the two fellowship years. Im just planning ahead on what to expect...

 

[Pingu]

Did the position and circumstance change or did your perception of what was undesirable change? If the latter, I say vote "accepted great and plan on remaining" If the former, vote one of the two immediately below it depending on whether the job you accepted was undesirable altogether or good despite the bad things about it.

I did actually know some (but not all) of what I was getting into in taking the position, so I was not entirely blindsided by the circumstances.

The position I took was taking over for a pathologist who had some issues. Because of said issues, the reputation of both the pathology department and the lab was not good. In addition, both lab and pathology had been losing business so reimbursement wasn't where it should be either. They also had some medical directorships with some small surrounding hospitals that paid a pittance (one I don't think paid anything), were a time drain, and on top of that, didn't even send the pathology specimens to the main hospital. For the main hospital medical directorship, they had recently had a bad CAP inspection which is what finally prompted some action.

It took several years, but we have had two stellar CAP inspections and a stellar CLIA inspection under my reign. We are no longer the laughingstock of the hospital and I am satisfied with the reimbursement.

I took a hardline approach to the other medical directorships...I demanded autonomy, that changes that need to made to keep the lab compliant actually be made, and a set fee. If they don't agree, they can find a different medical director. I still hear about the one who didn't agree....they are frequently in trouble with CLIA and CMS. I say good riddance.

I also did all of this straight out of residency with no fellowship so take that for what it is worth.

 

[Enkidu]

Okay - So I think that this poll is more or less finished. The final result, as I interpret it, is that the majority (64%) of pathologists on this forum accepted "great" positions.

Moreover, according to this poll, 12% of pathologists on this forum are unemployed - however, the results from the other poll indicate that only about a quarter of pathologists responding as "unemployed" actually finished fellowship and were unable to find a job. The remainder of the "unemployed" respondents appear to be people who are still in fellowship, people who are turning down the positions that they were offered, or who have lost their jobs for whatever reasons and haven't found a new one. Each of these categories, I think, is indicative of a personal situation beyond the "job" market.

So my understanding is that about a quarter of the "unemployed" respondents are actually "unemployed" out of fellowship, which ends up being 3% of total respondents.

The picture that I'm left with is, of respondents on this forum, there is 97% employment among pathologists and the majority (64%) of them characterize their jobs as "great".

 

[Path_to_Endo]

Interesting result! But, its only reflective of the subset of pathologists who know about/participate on SDN. I am pretty convinced ( based on the anecdotal evidence of some of our fellows), its a tough market and will be for a little while.

 

[Enkidu]

Interesting result! But, its only reflective of the subset of pathologists who know about/participate on SDN. I am pretty convinced ( based on the anecdotal evidence of some of our fellows), its a tough market and will be for a little while.

Yeah, SDN pathologists are self-selecting, of course, but I think it probably goes the other way. Several pathologists who have had good experiences in the job market claim to have stopped posting in this forum due to the negativity. If anything, I'd suspect that these results would be more negative than the actual population.