SDN Myths

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RokChalkJayhawk said:
Consider how many other jobs REQUIRE at least 8 years of post-secondary education. That's not even including one's internship/residency, where you will get to know the meaning of "hard work."

Personally, I don't think 150k is even close to adequate for almost any doctor. My Dad is a general/trauma surgeon, 50 years old, and I guarantee he works on average 75 hours a week. He doesn't make anything near what he's worth. And trust me, there are a lot of doctors working as hard or harder.

Consider the cost of medical education. Consider the time invested.

Real Estate agents make a ludicrous amount of money for a job that requires a high school education. Anyone who is even suggesting that doctors should be paid less I don't think has an adequate idea of how hard the job is.

Life's not fair. Teachers shouldn't only make 30k a year while Russ Ortiz gets paid 33 million to watch baseball at home. Yeah doctors make a lot of money. But they've earned it (and more).

At this point I'm just going to assume that those suggesting doctors shouldn't earn so much are trolls.
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no offense, but not anywhere in this thread did anybody say doctors are overpaid. It seems you are just venting here about stuff you heard elsewhere.
 
RokChalkJayhawk said:
Consider how many other jobs REQUIRE at least 8 years of post-secondary education. That's not even including one's internship/residency, where you will get to know the meaning of "hard work."

Personally, I don't think 150k is even close to adequate for almost any doctor. My Dad is a general/trauma surgeon, 50 years old, and I guarantee he works on average 75 hours a week. He doesn't make anything near what he's worth. And trust me, there are a lot of doctors working as hard or harder.

Consider the cost of medical education. Consider the time invested.

Real Estate agents make a ludicrous amount of money for a job that requires a high school education. Anyone who is even suggesting that doctors should be paid less I don't think has an adequate idea of how hard the job is.

Life's not fair. Teachers shouldn't only make 30k a year while Russ Ortiz gets paid 33 million to watch baseball at home. Yeah doctors make a lot of money. But they've earned it (and more).

At this point I'm just going to assume that those suggesting doctors shouldn't earn so much are trolls.
Click to expand...

FYI... the average household income in America is 40K a year. Lots of people work hard, lots of people work overtime, lots of people have jobs they hate and lots of people make far less than doctors. Every doc I've talked to loves their job, despite the investment and despite the long hours. if I can have a job I love AND get paid 150K a year, I'll be stoked!!!! By the way teachers have have 5-6 years of post secondary education to make 30K/yr, PhDs have ~9 years to start around 50K and docs have 8 years to make 150K+ that sound like a fairly sweet deal to me.

If you think you'll be underpaid as a doctor, then go be a real estate agent.
 
Vox Animo said:
i was being sarcastic about IB
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Ah... my bad. I have trouble catching that in text sometimes. I thought you were only kidding about the polygamy laws.
 
Flopotomist said:
Muahahaha! I make a terrible boyfriend - never buy flowers, leave my socks on the bathroom floor, drink directly from 2 liter bottle of soda etc. In fact, I don't think I am gay as much as I realize that only another man could live with me long term.
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Socks on the bathroom floor, drinking from 2 liter bottles of soda? I think that's cute. Besides, I'm allergic to pollen. So if you're ever in the Boston area, let me know.

p.s. Our team really, REALLY needs a shortstop of your... caliber. 😀

p.s.s. We're going to keep recruiting you, aren't we Anastasis? Persistance works!
 
jackets5 said:
What are some of the myths that u guys have seen here on SDN after going through the application process. here are of few that ive seen.

1. Med schools really look for well-rounded, interesting people
2. There are a lot of people each year with very high stats 3.8 and 35+ that dont get accepted
3. Being URM is not that big of a help in getting admitted.

any more?
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Myth: just about any blanket statment about admissions, lifestyle, or applicants.

for example, everything above. 😀
 
DarkFark said:
Ah... my bad. I have trouble catching that in text sometimes. I thought you were only kidding about the polygamy laws.
Click to expand...

Ah...I think he was actually serious about the polygamy laws
 
myth: Princeton review diags are an accurate assessment of your actual MCAT score.
 
jillibean said:
By the way teachers have have 5-6 years of post secondary education to make 30K/yr, PhDs have ~9 years to start around 50K .
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While I agree with most of what you say some of that is a bit generalized.lol Teachers in k-12 make a wide range depending on what state....In the 90s teachers were trying to flock to PA because of the high salaries (in relation to teachers) that were being offered...somewhere around 50k I beleive. The average teacher at my old high school, with the 4 years of EASY for most of them, college education and then a little extra time to find a gig started around 34k and with tenure which is takes a long time got around 38 or 39. I am not saying that is in the money or anything and it isn't fair still but it is more than 30k a year.lol PHD's are such a wide payschool it is ridiculous. I know a 38 yearold phd in linguistics that is living off of stipends from the university still and then another German professor with a similiar education that makes 250k plus a year....Most of these places pay a lot more than 50k though..especially once you factor in the ones that get paid for books and whatever else. Plus..while it changes by university..just for teaching 2 classes a semester while doing your phd at my uni you get all tuition waived and 12k a year along with the faculty health insurance. ( to live on)
 
jillibean said:
Every doc I've talked to loves their job, despite the investment and despite the long hours.
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ha, an SDN myth appears in a thread about SDN myths!!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Flopotomist said:
Muahahaha! I make a terrible boyfriend - never buy flowers, leave my socks on the bathroom floor, drink directly from 2 liter bottle of soda etc. In fact, I don't think I am gay as much as I realize that only another man could live with me long term.
Click to expand...


haha its fine with me... as long as i can do it to :laugh:
 
Just came back across this, and I can't let something die so easily so:

1)A couple comments were made about physicians being overpaid

2)Do you honestly think that a teacher has the equivalent amount of education to a physician. Honestly? I was pretty sure you could teach with an AA but maybe I'm wrong. At the most it requires a bachelors and a teaching certificate in CA. To be an emergency physician it takes at least 11 years of post high school education assuming you did 4-4-3.

3)I don't know about you, but I couldn't start paying off 150k in debt on 45k a year. Not to mention tens of thousands of dollars worth of insurance and overhead.

I honestly don't think you have thought this whole expense thing through.
 
RokChalkJayhawk said:
2)Do you honestly think that a teacher has the equivalent amount of education to a physician. Honestly? I was pretty sure you could teach with an AA but maybe I'm wrong. At the most it requires a bachelors and a teaching certificate in CA. To be an emergency physician it takes at least 11 years of post high school education assuming you did 4-4-3.
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You can teach aerobics with an AA, but nothing in a public school system of any repute. Aside from "emergency credentials" (which are atypical and only exist because teachers are grossly underpaid), you need a BA and one year credential. This is five years of college. After that, you are under a mentor system in most districts and your pay rises up after you pass your probation, which varies.

For a physician, you need eight years of college. After that, you are employed as a physician. Granted, resident pay sucks, but it is not the equivalent to college (no salary, continuing to rack student debt). A physician has eight years of college plus training.

So if you want to compare them apples-to-apples, avg salary for a teacher in Champaign, IL is $48K versus an ER doctor, which is $210K.

Just food for thought. Whether someone thinks doctors are overpaid or teachers are underpaid is probably a reflection of how much experience they've had in the workforce. But if nothing else, there's a reason it's cuthroat to get in to medical school and most parts of the country are begging for teachers.
 
notdeadyet said:
So if you want to compare them apples-to-apples, avg salary for a teacher in Champaign, IL is $48K versus an ER doctor, which is $210K.

Just food for thought. Whether someone thinks doctors are overpaid or teachers are underpaid is probably a reflection of how much experience they've had in the workforce. But if nothing else, there's a reason it's cuthroat to get in to medical school and most parts of the country are begging for teachers.
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Amen to that. Teachers in the NYC public schools need to have a master's degree within 3-5 years (depending on when/how they were certified) and take education credits every year for as long as they work. Teachers start at 39K a year...living in NEW YORK, where a sandwich costs $7. That means after taxes they bring home less than $2,000 a month...and rents in the city are at least $800 (at LEAST) plus utilities. Salary raises are every few years, but they are minimal. The max salary...with a PhD and 25+ years...is about 80K. These stats are 1 year old.

I am not saying that doctors are overpaid, underpaid, or throughpaid...but teachers work all day then go home and grade papers, write lesson plans, grade homework, write tests, do a ton of paperwork for students, call parents, attend classes...etc. Doctors go home and...well, I guess it depends on the profession. Many still do have work to do, and I am definitely not underplaying the significance of their role. The point is, doctors could do a lot worse...and they could, statistically, work for a lot less. Which some do.
 
jackets5 said:
What are some of the myths that u guys have seen here on SDN after going through the application process. here are of few that ive seen.

1. Med schools really look for well-rounded, interesting people
2. There are a lot of people each year with very high stats 3.8 and 35+ that dont get accepted
3. Being URM is not that big of a help in getting admitted.

any more?
Click to expand...

You actually can find examples of both #1 and #2 on SDN currently, and will know of more each after each cycle. When you are in med school, you will met a ton of #1.
The biggest myths I see on SDN are
(1) this so called "sliding scale" where you can offset bad grades with a high MCAT or vice versa;
(2) the notion that anyone can "rock the MCAT", notwithstanding how they have previously done in the prereqs;
(3) that someone is a shoo-in at med school just simply by virtue of numerical stats;
(4) that interviews are just a formality; just to weed out the crazies.
 
bbas said:
I have to ask, what exactly is the point of fabricating your stats on an anonymous website?
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Sounds ridiculous, right? Well, I spend my other wasted hours on a bodybuilding forum, and trust me...people do it allllll the time! If you look hard enough, you'll find people slipping. And, on the bodybuilding forums, sometimes they put up pics to prove it 😀 hahah

I've got a 30" waist, 53" chest and 20" arms and benchpress 500lbs = everyone on bbing boards.
I've got a 4.0 bcpm, 3.95 overall, 38 mcat and have an IQ that puts me in the 99.99 percentile = everyone on premed forums.

Bologna is the The Internet's middle name 🙂
 
Flopotomist said:
Muahahaha! I make a terrible boyfriend - never buy flowers, leave my socks on the bathroom floor, drink directly from 2 liter bottle of soda etc. In fact, I don't think I am gay as much as I realize that only another man could live with me long term.
Click to expand...
I was about to say....are you sure you're gay?
 
bbas said:
I have to ask, what exactly is the point of fabricating your stats on an anonymous website?
Click to expand...

Wait. Are you saying that I'm lying about my 5.1 GPA and 49Z MCAT score??
 
Law2Doc said:
The biggest myths I see on SDN are
(1) this so called "sliding scale" where you can offset bad grades with a high MCAT or vice versa;
(2) the notion that anyone can "rock the MCAT", notwithstanding how they have previously done in the prereqs;
(3) that someone is a shoo-in at med school just simply by virtue of numerical stats;
(4) that interviews are just a formality; just to weed out the crazies.
Click to expand...
I honestly can think of exceptions to every one of these. Major one I disagree with is

1) MCAT can set off GPA and vice versa. I have several examples of this (and the vice versa)

Oh and :
-interviews weed out crazy peoples 😛 They actually do. I know an example of an applicant who had awesome stats but was crazy and didn't get in. (LOR's reflected the craziness her own PI she was working with didn't write her a good letter). That isn't really an exception but more of a funny story.
 
RokChalkJayhawk said:
Just came back across this, and I can't let something die so easily so:

1)A couple comments were made about physicians being overpaid

2)Do you honestly think that a teacher has the equivalent amount of education to a physician. Honestly? I was pretty sure you could teach with an AA but maybe I'm wrong. At the most it requires a bachelors and a teaching certificate in CA. To be an emergency physician it takes at least 11 years of post high school education assuming you did 4-4-3.

3)I don't know about you, but I couldn't start paying off 150k in debt on 45k a year. Not to mention tens of thousands of dollars worth of insurance and overhead.

I honestly don't think you have thought this whole expense thing through.
Click to expand...
most of the people I saw were more along the lines stating that $100-$150K is not a bad salary. Yes you might have $150K in debt which you need a higher salary but in no means are the people that complain that doctors don't get paid enough are saying you could pay the debt back on $45K. Its more of the people that complain that its not enough money (which is why you see a lack in primary care to subspecialities so they have the income stream).
 
Depakote said:
Myth: Hard work pays off.
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Awww.....Poor Depakote....sounds like someone needs a hug. 😉
 
thesauce said:
When you look at a 40 MCAT, there are only 4 or 5 people that got that score that DIDN'T post their scores on MDapplicants. It's just unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Myth #38: People who throw around numbers without giving details are telling the truth.

Try 161 people that didn't post, not 4 or 5 (~80% didn't post)

2005 combined April & August administration test takers = 66,433.
40= 99.7-99.8 percentile.
199 tests were scored at 40+ (that would be 66,433 x 0.003)

mdapps profiles applying for 2006 with 40+ MCAT = 38.
mdapps profiles applying for 2006 = 1370.

mdapps profiles applying for 2006 is 2% of total 2005 MCAT tests.
mdapps profiles applying 2006 with 40+ MCAT is 20% of total 2005 40+ MCAT tests.

So, MCAT tests of 40+ are 10x more likely to end up as mdapps profiles, fine. But it's a far cry from what the sauce says.
 
heres why doctor's salaries are the best (aside from law)....
NO RISK
sure, you can do ibanking, making your 400k...but if the company you work for tanks, yur screwed for a while.
and this goes with any job where you go corporate
you never know if you are going to get laid off today
and to the comment someone put out earlier about doctors being smart enough to be rich at anything and can start a business...you know how much risk is involved with that?

Physicians, on the other hand, do not have to worry about job security. You will never be outsourced, you will never lose your job after 9/11, or katrina, or whatever. Plus, you don't have to worry about location; doctors are needed everywhere. You wanna work for biotech? better like boston or jersey. You wanna work for IT? better like silicon valley. I wouldn't want to get a phd only to have to live in Ithaca, or New Haven.

8 years of post-college work for a GUARANTEED 6-figure salary, good benefits, and ability to work just about anywhere in the US? Hell, even if I hated biology, people, and everything in between, i'd do it.
 
and as far as myths go

1)URM's have to work just as hard to get into same schools as non-URM's. This is partially true, it just has to be ammended. Underprivilaged minorities have to work just as hard....but so do underprivilaged non-minorities. However, since there is so much overlap between URMs and UPs, the statement becomes almost accurate. the problem is, some well-off URM's get it easy, and some UP-non-M's get screwed over. So while ultimately it works out kinda like intended, it is not prefect, and certainly not fair for the people who get scrwed over by it.

2)Once you get to the interview, everybody is on the same level. Just go to MDApps, and look at each school's interviewed/accepted vs interviewed/not-accepted gpa and mcats. There are some exceptions, though (GW, for one).
 
Depakote said:
Myth: Hard work pays off.
Click to expand...
:laugh:
SDN Myth #513 - I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I should get a 30+
 
Dr.Acula said:
:laugh:
SDN Myth #513 - I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I should get a 30+
Click to expand...

That or... "my BCPM is below average (3.2-3.3) but I'm planning on getting between a 30 and 35 on the MCAT. What are my chances?"
 
Dr.TobiasFünke said:
That or... "my BCPM is below average (3.2-3.3) but I'm planning on getting between a 30 and 35 on the MCAT. What are my chances?"
Click to expand...
T, you really should go back to your old avatar.
 
Haemulon said:
I don't know, I liked the new one.
Click to expand...

some people said they couldn't see it... i just changed it back

but I did put a new link in my signature...

I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised

😀 😀 😀
 
1) URM's need AA to get admitted to med school

2) URM's have low MCAT and GPA's

3) It's easier to get into med school as a URM

4) Wealthy URM's have not experienced racism to the point that it would affect their education

5) There is no racism in the US
 
geno2568 said:
heres why doctor's salaries are the best (aside from law)....
NO RISK
sure, you can do ibanking, making your 400k...but if the company you work for tanks, yur screwed for a while.
and this goes with any job where you go corporate
you never know if you are going to get laid off today
and to the comment someone put out earlier about doctors being smart enough to be rich at anything and can start a business...you know how much risk is involved with that?

Physicians, on the other hand, do not have to worry about job security. You will never be outsourced, you will never lose your job after 9/11, or katrina, or whatever. Plus, you don't have to worry about location; doctors are needed everywhere. You wanna work for biotech? better like boston or jersey. You wanna work for IT? better like silicon valley. I wouldn't want to get a phd only to have to live in Ithaca, or New Haven.
Click to expand...


Yeah, all this stuff is mythical, too, though. Physcians are at risk for decreasing payments from Medicare (which trickles down to affect everything), new/improved procedures which render a once-lucrative field less profitable, "big-box" competition, malpractice litigation, encroachment from midlevel providers, and plenty of other forces that you neglected to mention. I'm not saying there's a bunch of docs on welfare out there, but it is not the risk-free gravy train you are making it out to be.
 
1Path said:
1) URM's need AA to get admitted to med school

2) URM's have low MCAT and GPA's

3) It's easier to get into med school as a URM

4) Wealthy URM's have not experienced racism to the point that it would affect their education

5) There is no racism in the US
Click to expand...

1)Thats true...but there are that abuse the system. Some of which are my friends, who have admitted to doing so.

2)you're right on that one

3)I'll have to disagree with you on that one. While you'd be correct when talking about college, we're all coming from 4 year colleges (or better). In most colleges, racism is really all but gone (and yes i know it is still there, but the extent of it is not that big anymore). So I think that by this point, how much money we have (which dictated what kind of ec's we could have done), and what kind of connections mommy and daddy have play a much bigger role than your race.

4)True...but URM's arn't the only ones that have experienced racism.

5)True..but again, I dont see what this has to do with applying to med school, since Indians, Jews, Chinese, and a host of other races are discriminated against, but have no advantage when it comes to medical school.
 
Law2Doc said:
You actually can find examples of both #1 and #2 on SDN currently, and will know of more each after each cycle. When you are in med school, you will met a ton of #1.
The biggest myths I see on SDN are
(1) this so called "sliding scale" where you can offset bad grades with a high MCAT or vice versa;
(2) the notion that anyone can "rock the MCAT", notwithstanding how they have previously done in the prereqs;
(3) that someone is a shoo-in at med school just simply by virtue of numerical stats;
(4) that interviews are just a formality; just to weed out the crazies.
Click to expand...
I agree with 2 -4.

But about 1 - I swear sometimes people act like you need to be amazing in all aspects of your application to even be considered places. But that's not true. Having a good MCAT and ECs can overcome low grades. Adcoms have told me that.
 
Law2Doc said:
...(1) this so called "sliding scale" where you can offset bad grades with a high MCAT or vice versa;
(2) the notion that anyone can "rock the MCAT", notwithstanding how they have previously done in the prereqs;...
Click to expand...
I believe I rode the sliding scale to acceptance by "rocking the MCAT," something many would consider unlikely if they saw my grades.



Just poking fun because I can. Seriously though, anytime I see someone posting "I'm planning on getting XYZ score" my brain explodes. On multiple levels.
 
First a stupid question: Whats a URM?

As far as the getting rejected with a 3.9 and a 40 is concerned.... It is a myth for the most part. Those stats might not get you into Harvard, but you will almost for sure get in. Unless you have a criminal record or you some across like a complete a$* in the interview.
 
MollyMalone said:
I'm not saying there's a bunch of docs on welfare out there, but it is not the risk-free gravy train you are making it out to be.
Click to expand...
True. Things aren't as good for physicians as they used to be. But it's as close to a risk-free gravy train as you'll find.
 
geno2568 said:
In most colleges, racism is really all but gone (and yes i know it is still there, but the extent of it is not that big anymore).
Click to expand...
Extent is not that big? Have you ever been to a southern white school? 😕

geno2568 said:
So I think that by this point, how much money we have (which dictated what kind of ec's we could have done), and what kind of connections mommy and daddy have play a much bigger role than your race. .
Click to expand...
And how many "well connected" URM's can you name? Most of the ones I know of are professinal athletes and even then, then can't expect to become general manager or coach of the team they played for one day.

Less than what, 1% of ALL medical school faculty are URM's so how much of an advantaged is that for the rest of us whose parents aren't on a medical school faculty?? If being a URM were so much of an "advantage", then there would be more of us in med school.
 
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