SDN Myths

[1Path]

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Now who is being prejudice? How does being white in the South automatically make you a racist?

SDN myth number 100 - People actally READ posts and don't make asinine inferences! 🙄

 

[geno2568]

Extent is not that big? Have you ever been to a southern white school? 😕


And how many "well connected" URM's can you name? Most of the ones I know of are professinal athletes and even then, then can't expect to become general manager or coach of the team they played for one day.

Less than what, 1% of ALL medical school faculty are URM's so how much of an advantaged is that for the rest of us whose parents aren't on a medical school faculty?? If being a URM were so much of an "advantage", then there would be more of us in med school.

i havnt been to a "white" school anywhere...not just in the south
dont exactly know what you mean by that.

And I think you missed the point of my last comment. What I meant was the difference between whites and urm's in college is minimised to the point that the advantages that rich/connected people have over other is far greater than the advantage that whites have over URM's.

 

[RokChalkJayhawk]

I certainly shook a hornet's nest.

I still don't think anyone truly understands. As a physician, you are going to have a pretty ridiculous amount of overhead expenses. Unless someone is paying for your insurance, you are going to have a mighty high expense right there.

As difficult as making a lesson plan sounds, I don't think it's anywhere near the responsibility that comes with making a significant medical decision. My sister is a teacher, and believe me, she knows the differences between her job and my Dad's (who is a surgeon). I think 150k a year would be more than enough of a salary, assuming that you didn't have to pay tens of thousands of dollars of outside expenses simply to practice medicine.

Also- by no means as a physician is your money guaranteed or are you going to have an easy-going. You can get sued for just about anything and everything. While most suits don't result in a victory for the prosecuting side, it does cost physicians time and money. Also, assuming that everyone here knows that time=money, the end result is that you lose money x money which ends up being money SQUARED. I think that question should be on the MCAT. (What are the units used when determing items lost by physicians being sued).

 

[1Path]

And I think you missed the point of my last comment. What I meant was the difference between whites and urm's in college is minimised to the point that the advantages that rich/connected people have over other is far greater than the advantage that whites have over URM's.

Point taken. But being rich/connected doens't help URM's nearly as much as it does everyone else.

 

[Depakote]

actually this isn't myth 😛

Note to self: Put Lee Burnett in mortal danger.

Note to self: try to remember to save Lee Burnett.

 

[geno2568]

Point taken. But being rich/connected doens't help URM's nearly as much as it does everyone else.

that's true...but at the same time you cant assume that everyone thats not a URM is rich/connected.

what i mean is, the line should be drawn between URM+non-rich whites and rich/connected, and not between URM's and all others

 

[RokChalkJayhawk]

The good ole boy network is much more interested in taking over the White House than med school admissions.

 

[Anastasis]

SDN myth number 100 - People actally READ posts and don't make asinine inferences! 🙄

How was it an asinine inference? You pointed to white schools as being havens of racism. I would say it's certain white schools and not ALL white schools in the south.

But dismissing my point is much easier than actually addressing and elaborating on what you wrote.

 

[Giro]

Myth: WashU is a good school and not a numbers *****.

 

[geno2568]

Myth: WashU is a good school and not a numbers *****.

it is a good school.
and I hope its a numbers *****.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Myth: Severus is hobo and a prostitute. Wait, nevermind.

 

[Dr.TobiasFünke]

Myth: Severus is hobo and a prostitute. Wait, nevermind.

 

[notdeadyet]

Myth: A thread on SDN is capable of going more than 4 pages and not mentioning AA or URMs.

 

[1Path]

that's true...but at the same time you cant assume that everyone thats not a URM is rich/connected.

Where/when did I make that assumption?? I'm actually one of the few folks who have spent a little volunter time in a public health clinic and realized that MOST of it's clients are poor whites, contrary to popular belief.

Whether you're rich or poor, being nonminority IS an advantage in the US abeit more of an advantage for rich folks.

 

[Dr.Acula]

SDN Myth #192 - Nobody has ever said to themselves, "there is no emoticon for how I feel right now!" while replying to a post.

 

[rowdyrock]

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man"

Embiggens? I never heard that word before I moved to Springfield.
But I guess it's a perfectly cromulent word.

 

[1Path]

How was it an asinine inference? You pointed to white schools as being havens of racism. I would say it's certain white schools and not ALL white schools in the south.

But dismissing my point is much easier than actually addressing and elaborating on what you wrote.

Your asumption was that I meant ALL white schools. My posts did NOT say ALL white schools that but true to SDN style, it was ASSumed to read that way! 🙄

I'm one of those URM's on SDN that realized that elaborating on ANY point is a complete waste of time when race, AA, URM, ect is mentioned. So if you want an elaboration, you'll need to visit one of the minority premed sites where these "heated" discussions NEVER lead to an entire race of people being dismissed as undeserving, not intelligent, ect,ect. 👍

 

[Depakote]

Myth: A thread on SDN is capable of going more than 4 pages and not mentioning AA or URMs.

These threads are always topical discussions that stick to the merits of the issues.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Myth: A thread on SDN is capable of going more than 4 pages and not mentioning AA or URMs.

Dang it! That's what I was going to put. OK, I've got a new one.
Myth: Nobody on SDN will ever argue semantics.

 

[Sekiray]

Okay, "V for Vendetta" was a great movie. Now for the reply:



No, only the ones that are solely motivated by money. The averages play out the way that you describe it, for sure. But IF money is all that you want and you're intelligent and hard-working enough to have medical school as an option, you could make more than the average or even the high-end doctor elsewhere. Medical school is a good option to be garaunteed money, but the really big bucks are elsewhere.



You don't know this to be a fact and neither do I.



Still that's starting salary and we're back to talking about averages anyway. A student who has the option of medical school is not an average student. He/she wouldn't get sucked into a job making that little if he were motivated by money. He'd go find another field of work.



Garaunteed, that's the key. You're gauranteed to make good money as a doctor, that is a fact I won't argue with. But the over-the-top money is in business, finance, and entrepeneurship (spelling?). And smart, motivated people can get it.

And in most other countries, doctors don't enjoy the lifestyle that they do in the US. Why do you think that there are so many foreigners applying for residency spots here?

dude megaman rules! I like Zero the best though from the X series. Megaman 2 was by far the hardest cuz in the japanese one, if you miss bubble lead twice on Wiley, then you cant beat the game and have to start over. ARG

 

[mshheaddoc]

Myth: A thread on SDN is capable of going more than 4 pages and not mentioning AA or URMs.

 

[geno2568]

Where/when did I make that assumption?? I'm actually one of the few folks who have spent a little volunter time in a public health clinic and realized that MOST of it's clients are poor whites, contrary to popular belief.

i didnt say you make that assumption. I mentioned it because if you base the advantages given to URM's on financial reasons (and i'm not saying u did), then it is an asumption you have to make

Whether you're rich or poor, being nonminority IS an advantage in the US abeit more of an advantage for rich folks.

granted...but
there are lots of minorities out there
why are only certain minorities given preference?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

why are only certain minorities given preference?

because life isn't fair

 

[ND2005]

Myth: WashU is a good school and not a numbers *****.

Nope, sorry.

Myth: Giro was not rejected by WashU

 

[1Path]

there are lots of minorities out there why are only certain minorities given preference?

There's minority and there's disadvantaged. Brown skinned minorites are more often than not, BOTH even when "wealthy". One exception to this are Asian Indians.

 

[Looque]

Myth: There are plenty of jobs that pay as much as doctors.


Everytime i read this it makes me want to choke a kitten.

Each year medical schools crank out about 20000 people that will become very wealthly. No other fields have that many positions a year.

IBanking is the acception though, they have 25000 entry level positions every year, all of which quintuple what a doc makes, and allows them to have much hotter wives, and more lax polygamy laws.

Personally, my high-paying fall-back has always been to be a long haul truck driver. I love driving, and the pay can be phenomenal.

Surpising six-figure jobs

 

[Law2Doc]

Having a good MCAT and ECs can overcome low grades. Adcoms have told me that.

I spoke solely of MCAT. You are not in disagreement with me.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Amen to that. Teachers in the NYC public schools need to have a master's degree within 3-5 years (depending on when/how they were certified) and take education credits every year for as long as they work. Teachers start at 39K a year...living in NEW YORK, where a sandwich costs $7. That means after taxes they bring home less than $2,000 a month...and rents in the city are at least $800 (at LEAST) plus utilities. Salary raises are every few years, but they are minimal. The max salary...with a PhD and 25+ years...is about 80K. These stats are 1 year old.

I am not saying that doctors are overpaid, underpaid, or throughpaid...but teachers work all day then go home and grade papers, write lesson plans, grade homework, write tests, do a ton of paperwork for students, call parents, attend classes...etc. Doctors go home and...well, I guess it depends on the profession. Many still do have work to do, and I am definitely not underplaying the significance of their role. The point is, doctors could do a lot worse...and they could, statistically, work for a lot less. Which some do.

Teachers in NY who choose to work 9 months a year (i.e. no summer school) and NOT to help coach any sports make 39K. On the other hand, a friend of mine is 26, teaches in the Bronx, coaches swimming, teaches summer school, and brings home 60K. He will finish his masters (which cost him a grand total of about 2K over 3 years) this month and receive a pay raise at that point.

 

[Anastasis]

I spoke solely of MCAT. You are not in disagreement with me.

ah - gotcha. Then I agree!

 

[RokChalkJayhawk]

There's an obvious lack of thought by a certain group. No amount of posting on a forum is going to change any of that though.

 

[Giro]

The biggest myths I see on SDN are
(1) this so called "sliding scale" where you can offset bad grades with a high MCAT or vice versa;
(3) that someone is a shoo-in at med school just simply by virtue of numerical stats;
(4) that interviews are just a formality; just to weed out the crazies.

These might be myths at most schools, but they are certainly FACTS at WashU and other number-whoring schools.

 

[werd]

myths...
1) everyone has to work really hard to get into medical school
2) there are things you can do in college that will make med school easier when you get there
3) you will have no life once you get to medical school
4) one big weakness on your app will keep you out of med school

... for better or for worse, from an ms3

 

[Severus]

The rumor going around on here that I'm really a Victoria's Secret model... yeah, that's not a myth.



😎

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Where/when did I make that assumption?? I'm actually one of the few folks who have spent a little volunter time in a public health clinic and realized that MOST of it's clients are poor whites, contrary to popular belief.

Whether you're rich or poor, being nonminority IS an advantage in the US abeit more of an advantage for rich folks.

True that. I come a poor rural white family and I always get annoyed when people say it's ONLY about class and not about race. It goes against the facts. There are facts involved here. People seems to think their feelings are reality. Pick up a history book and start reading. Maybe some social theory while you're at it... Race and racism define U.S. history moreso than any other nation, and yet we want to act like we should all be "color-blind" and pretend everything's okay. I've got white privelege and so do all you other crackers...

PA-POW! 😱

 

[geno2568]

ye, we'va all got privilages.

I got the privilage to open a list of REU's and scholarships and throw out half of them right away because I'm a white male.

I'v got the privilage to have my grandfathers entire family dead because of his religion, to force my parents to flea a country with 2 small children for the same reason, only to be told to my face that I will never understand what racism is because i'm white.

I'v had the privilage to live with 5 other family members in a 1 bedroom apartment because, lets face it: when you flea a country, you cant exactly take all your stuff with you.

I'v got the privilage to have my dad held from getting a promotion because his company needed to promote one more URM.

I worked hard in high school to get to Cornell. I worked hard in college to maintain my GPA, and I worked very hard in college to get my MCAT score to what it is. I didn't take any prep classes, I pay instate tuition, and I'm on work study. Also, not only have I volunteered to tutor underprivilaged minorities, I specifically mentioned in many secondaries that I will continue to do so in med school.

So forgive me if I get angry when I see URM's getting accepted to schools I dont get into with stats lower than mine under the bullshyt assumption that i'm "privilaged", or "I am less likely to give back to underprivilaged communities"

 

[dbhvt]

ye, we'va all got privilages.

I got the privilage to open a list of REU's and scholarships and throw out half of them right away because I'm a white male.

I'v got the privilage to have my grandfathers entire family dead because of his religion, to force my parents to flea a country with 2 small children for the same reason, only to be told to my face that I will never understand what racism is because i'm white.

I'v had the privilage to live with 5 other family members in a 1 bedroom apartment because, lets face it: when you flea a country, you cant exactly take all your stuff with you.

I'v got the privilage to have my dad held from getting a promotion because his company needed to promote one more URM.

I worked hard in high school to get to Cornell. I worked hard in college to maintain my GPA, and I worked very hard in college to get my MCAT score to what it is. I didn't take any prep classes, I pay instate tuition, and I'm on work study. Also, not only have I volunteered to tutor underprivilaged minorities, I specifically mentioned in many secondaries that I will continue to do so in med school.

So forgive me if I get angry when I see URM's getting accepted to schools I dont get into with stats lower than mine under the bullshyt assumption that i'm "privilaged", or "I am less likely to give back to underprivilaged communities"

1) flee
2) get over yourself.
3) you're just applying now. how are you already angry about not getting in.

 

[velo]

What are some of the myths that u guys have seen here on SDN after going through the application process. here are of few that ive seen.

1. Med schools really look for well-rounded, interesting people
2. There are a lot of people each year with very high stats 3.8 and 35+ that dont get accepted
3. Being URM is not that big of a help in getting admitted.
any more?

4. Every URM gets accepted
5. med school is really hard

 

[geno2568]

1) flee
2) get over yourself.
3) you haven't even applied yet. how are you already angry about not getting in.

1) ye, i'm a bad speller 🙂
2)i aint asking for special treatment. I just dont like it when others get it. URM's or not.
3)Between mdapps, and my school's records of past students, i can see the general trends.

And i'm not saying that if i dont get in it's because of urm's/rich white people/communists/tooth fairies. When my rejection from UCSF comes in (i'm expecting it any day now), I wont have any one to blame but myself. I'm just saying that its not fair.

 

[MollyMalone]

1) ye, i'm a bad speller 🙂
2)i aint asking for special treatment. I just dont like it when others get it. URM's or not.
3)Between mdapps, and my school's records of past students, i can see the general trends.

And i'm not saying that if i dont get in it's because of urm's/rich white people/communists/tooth fairies. When my rejection from UCSF comes in (i'm expecting it any day now), I wont have any one to blame but myself. I'm just saying that its not fair.

Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

 

[CptCrunch]

The rumor going around on here that I'm really a Victoria's Secret model... yeah, that's not a myth.



😎

You'll need to submit a $130 fee and several photographs to be placed in line to be verified by me.

 

[R.P. McMurphy]

1) ye, i'm a bad speller 🙂
2)i aint asking for special treatment. I just dont like it when others get it. URM's or not.
3)Between mdapps, and my school's records of past students, i can see the general trends.

And i'm not saying that if i dont get in it's because of urm's/rich white people/communists/tooth fairies. When my rejection from UCSF comes in (i'm expecting it any day now), I wont have any one to blame but myself. I'm just saying that its not fair.

I think if you do get rejected from UCSF (and don't get me wrong, you seem like you have all the right stuff to get in there) it will be because you are not from california, not because you aren't a URM or that you weren't "good enough".

 

[iheartrain]

Teachers in NY who choose to work 9 months a year (i.e. no summer school) and NOT to help coach any sports make 39K. On the other hand, a friend of mine is 26, teaches in the Bronx, coaches swimming, teaches summer school, and brings home 60K. He will finish his masters (which cost him a grand total of about 2K over 3 years) this month and receive a pay raise at that point.

Yeah Im tired of the whole teacher whining schtick! Ive got a bunch of teachers in my family and my cousin who is my age makes as much as me and gets an entire 3 month summer off+ a month at christmas and every religious holiday off you can think of at her religious private school. AND she gets govt loan forgiveness for teaching at a private school for rich kids in an "underserved" city (the kids in public school ARE underserved but not sure how shes contributing to that) and she is home by 3 every day AND the school pays for her masters...I swear teachers work about 50% as much other professions despite what they think (i take work home too, do stuff on weekends and at night for my job- teachers i know can grade papers in front of the tv, its not that hard). And all i ever hear about from teachers is how little they get paid....ok i have no idea how the teacher myth started but i had to say my piece. feel.much.better.now 😉

 

[geno2568]

I think if you do get rejected from UCSF (and don't get me wrong, you seem like you have all the right stuff to get in there) it will be because you are not from california, not because you aren't a URM or that you weren't "good enough".

since 20% of their class is out of state anyway, if my gpa was higher then i would have a chance, regardless of my state.

 

[dbhvt]

2)i aint asking for special treatment. I just dont like it when others get it. URM's or not... I'm just saying that its not fair.

So this has turned into an URM thread. So I'm going to post my yearly URM post a little early:

In a perfect world, medical admissions would be simple. The spots would simply go to the people who would make the best doctors. But unfortunately the methods used to determine who would make a good physician are indirect. Rather than peering into your soul and your future, admissions committe's have to ask what your GPA and MCAT are, or what interesting EC's (ie, connections) you have. The theory is that certain ethnic and racial groups have a distinct advantage in the measurable catagories where other ethnic and racial groups have a distinct disadvantage (for whatever reason).

Luckily, admissions committes don't just operate on the assumption that all minorities have a disadvantage in the measurable catagories, but rather assume that one group is not necessarily genetically or socially superior, and that all racial and ethnic groups are equal. Then you look at the proportion of various groups who are doctors and say, well gosh, if black folks are just as good at this whole being a doctor thing, and yet the proportion of black doctors in our country is lower than the proportion of black people in our country, either we were wrong about black folks being just as good at doctoring as white folks, or our stupid ass way of measuring who would make a good doctor isn't quite up to snuff. So, in order to correct for the stupid ass part, they give black people a closer look. It's a functional definition: UNDER REPRESENTED minorities, and I think it's a damn good way to correct for bias in the measurement.

Last time I posted this someone went off on the brilliant idea that the underrepresentation problem has more to do with the fact that asians and jews work hard and black people are lazy (or rather, poor black families in the ghetto have a different cultural attitude toward academics). The beautiful thing about the system is, it doesn't matter what the reason is. That's the whole point of the functional definition.

Now listen closely, because this is the important part:

You (anyone) may have had a hard life, but are white, and feel you're not getting your fair shake as a white person. The fact of the matter is, as a white person, you are getting your fair shake and the URM's (as URM's) aren't. That's how they are defined. It's not arbitrary. It's not genetics. It's not a conspiracy. It's statistics.


P.S. I'm not attacking geno in particular, but the idea that it's not fair for URM's to get a closer look.

 

[dbhvt]

since 20% of their class is out of state anyway, if my gpa was higher then i would have a chance, regardless of my state.

I'm pretty sure those are dual degree folks. It's anecdotal, but if an OOS Marshall scholar can't even get an interview, there's a pretty strong in state bias.

 

[durfen]

since 20% of their class is out of state anyway, if my gpa was higher then i would have a chance, regardless of my state.

Hey you're my MCAT identical twin, even on the individual section and writing scores! Almost the same GPA too. UCSF is my second choice...BUT you withdrew from Stanford because of 'too much research', damn that's exactly why that's my first choice....

That said, wrong thread.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm pretty sure those are dual degree folks. It's anecdotal, but if an OOS Marshall scholar can't even get an interview, there's a pretty strong in state bias.

Agreed. It's rough getting in to UCSF as an instate. OOS must be a nightmare.

 

[durfen]

So this has turned into an URM thread. So I'm going to post my yearly URM post a little early:

In a perfect world, medical admissions would be simple. The spots would simply go to the people who would make the best doctors. But unfortunately the methods used to determine who would make a good physician are .

Personally, I do not like the use of statistics to pursue a liberal agenda of elevating underprivileged minorities. If fewer Hispanics are in medicine, is this because there is a bias against Hispanics, because there is a Hispanic bias against medicine, or because Hispanics aren't given a fair shake in the first place and therefore have lower scores etc.?

First I reject the idea that all Hispanics (or African-Americans etc.) were disadvantaged. Racism is a problem in the US, but these problems have to be dealt with individually, not on a general basis by advocating general affirmative action. You can however use economic disadvantage, if you had to pay your way through school by working, or came from a poor family with 6 kids so you had to do work to support the family as well and probably didn't have time to study, do ECs etc. These sort of situations show commitment and determination and should be taken into account. Being given an advantage simply because you are a URM by genetics rather than by situation is simply unfair and I think med schools know this. Rich URM's are probably not given a lot of advantage, and poor whites are given an advantage.

A funny anecdote, nothing to do with this thread: My friend in NZ is 1/32 Maori. He got a free fishing license.
I am also a Democrat here (and voted Liberal in NZ).

EDIT: I meant 'minority' by URM, not the functional def....

 

[notdeadyet]

So forgive me if I get angry when I see URM's getting accepted to schools I dont get into with stats lower than mine under the bullshyt assumption that i'm "privilaged", or "I am less likely to give back to underprivilaged communities"

Looking over mdapplicants, there were 8 listings for folks who got accepted to UCSF as OOSers this past cycle. 7 were non-URMs.

The one URM that was accepted OOS had a worse MCAT than you (still, a 33 ain't bad) and a slightly better GPA. She went to Harvard.

So using that as a spot test, it doesn't sound like too many URMs snuck in under the radar at UCSF to steal your spot, just 7 non-URMs and 1 URM that did it fair and square. If you don't get in, take it like a man.

 

[Kuba]

AA= 👍 That settles it