SDN was right.

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Dzerzhinsky

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The grand plan is off. Over. Done. Finis. Aborted, not retried, and ignored. At the moment, I have no firm plans to attend medical school, and I am not currently working towards so doing. I cancelled my MCAT, I'm dropping my classes for fall, and I didn't ask that favorite chemistry professor to write me a letter.

A year ago, this was not the case. A year ago, I was full-steam-ahead, pulling a 4.0 in my postbacc work, working full-time, and volunteering ten-plus hours a week. A year ago I was dead set on a specialty. A year ago, I was going to be part of the Class of '17 come hell or high water. I had a plan. Some parts of it went against SDN conventional wisdom, but it was working marvelously, until it didn't.

And so: SDN was right.

Note, before we continue, before we go into the gory details: I have no regrets. This was an amazing ride. I'm glad I did it the way I did. To be honest, medicine was always going to be a losing proposition for me on a financial level, so this is probably for the best. Too, I wanted the challenge more than I wanted the brass ring.

So: If one considers the function of a plan to be an opportunity to find the right path, mine worked beautifully.

On the other hand: If one considers the function of a plan to get one into medical school, there were numerous points at which it would have been better to take SDN's advice.

How, then, was SDN right?

***

To be clear, I did take much of SDN's advice. I volunteered. I did well in my prereqs. I started thinking about letters early. I took the MCAT seriously. I evaluated my undergraduate GPA with a critical eye and did what I had to do in order to get it into a competitive range. But there were three places I deviated from conventional wisdom, and these are the three I want to address, in the hopes of helping someone else.

Shadow early.

I started thinking about a specific specialty (because I wanted to do that particular specialty of medicine; that was all I wanted to do) in November 2009. I started taking prereqs and volunteering in Fall 2010. I was planning to apply in June 2012. I shadowed for the first time in March 2012.

I have nothing but the highest respect for that specialty. For a variety of personal reasons, I now think I was wrong about it being the right field for me.

Shadow first, kids. Make sure the dream you dream can stand up to the harsh light of reality. I was reluctant to shadow early because I felt like I was imposing on the physicians of whom I made requests (I cold-emailed to find people.) I was pleasantly surprised at the amazing response rate I got. Take advantage of it. Take advantage of it early, so you don't wind up doing what I did.

Note: Yes, you have to do this if your partner's a physician. (Mine was.) Yes, you have to do this if you work or volunteer in an allied health field. (I do.) You needn't do it often, but do it early.

EMS is a trap.

I chose to get in my clinical hours by doing EMS. I joined my local 911 service at the same time I started my prereqs. I've probably ridden about a thousand hours. I've responded to attempted suicides, working codes, assault victims, massive STEMIs, unresponsive kids, high-speed vehicular trauma, contractions, and a request for transport to McDonald's. I've seen deformed limbs, grand mal seizures, rigor mortis, nursing home CPR, and half a patient's face eaten by a tumor. I've made some pretty spectacular dog's breakfasts of scenes, and I've had people clutch my hand and say "I'm so glad you're here."

I love it. I initially hated it, when I was terrible at it... and I was terrible at it, originally. Now I love it. It's amazing. The rush, the camaraderie, the excitement of never knowing what you're going to get. The moment when the bells go off is a rush like no other. In fact, I love it so much that I'm starting an ALS practitioner upgrade class this fall. I can't wait until my jurisdiction lets me shove tubes in people!

But honestly? When it comes to admissions, it's really not that much better than a hundred hours spent folding blankets in an ED somewhere. And it's so delicious, it's so much easier to get sidetracked. Everyone in this firehouse who does EMS wants to go to medical school. They ride four shifts a week, but they have 3.0s and 2.5s. They get to be first on scene and push the drugs, and they think it matters. They think that'll make up for the dismal GPA.

It doesn't, and it won't.

My case was and is different: I have the GPA to be competitive. Instead, I got seduced. EMS is the candy, and when you're slogging through memorizing stuff, candy is tasty and fun. Now I'm dropping my last year of prereqs to become an ALS provider. I have no regrets, but at the same time, I can tell you I wouldn't have gotten sidetracked by folding blankets.

Burnout is real.

I didn't quit my job. If the goal was medical school, I should have. In the end, it got me. I did fine until this last semester, but the combination of MCAT study, application preparation, a full-time job, organic chemistry, and a partner with significant health issues? It broke me. Final scoreboard: cancelled MCAT, B in Orgo, end of relationship. (I also gave myself stress-induced eczema, lived in a dump, and lost all of my athletic conditioning, but those barely even count.)

None of the above are irrecoverable. I probably could have continued with the cycle, if I'd wanted to. But I didn't. I was too burned out. I still am. If I'd quit my job, that wouldn't have happened. I'm glad I didn't, because it wasn't feasible within my parameters... but not doing so was a direct contributor to the demise of this plan. And so, if this is what you really want, make the sacrifice and do it right.

(An aside: I may someday want to hop back on the train. Given the circumstances, I could probably get my institution to give me a retroactive W in Orgo. I'd like to retake anyway for comprehension, since I'll be away from it for at least a year, but I retook several classes already from undergrad; given that, I suspect that a single B in postbacc work is better than a W and then an A, even though it's not the answer I want. SDN confirmation would be appreciated.)

***

Knowing the above, would I wave my magic wand and go back to change how I did it?

No, I wouldn't. I like my current career. I may still want someday to go, and I can pick it back up at that point. It'll be there. Right now, I'm doing what I need to do and going where I need to go, and I count myself fortunate that I burned out now rather than as a M1 or M2.

But if you want this--if you really, really want this--and you want to give yourself the best shot at success, I hope this will prove useful. I know it's hard to believe that you won't beat the odds, and some of you may. But for the vast majority of you, you won't. I've made my entire life out of beating the odds, and I didn't here.

Listen to SDN!
 
I love this story. Hang on tight while the aftershocks play out. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

For 8 years I've been expecting roughly the same thing to happen to me - to get distracted from med school by something I want just as much or more. With 16 days to go before I'm an M1, please oh please not now...

Best of luck to you.
 
Good to see the flip side posted. If you're reading it as a non trad premed, take it as intended, a shot of reality among the often rose colored anectdotes of those of us that "made it". It's hard for us to accurately transmit the difficulties we've had to go through and we like to encourage others as we have often been encouraged. The last thing you want to do is get there and find it was all smoke and mirrors.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app. Blame Siri if the spelling or grammar are bad.
 
Tough to hear it didn't work out 🙁

Hopefully you get your bearings straight and go at again hard!
 
Your perspective is intimidatingly admirable. Methinks the medical community might have just lost out, but not you. Thank you for the advice.
 
You are so right about EMS being "candy." LOL
I was working as an ER-tech and loved it so much. I was trying to do it all too: full time work, full time school, being married. My grades really suffered for it. It took me a long time to accept the fact that I had to quit my job if I really wanted this.
I ended up quitting my job and was very depressed for a while. I felt like I had lost dignity being unemployed. I went from being someone important to being a nobody lost in the ocean of overly competitive "kids." I'm glad I did it though.

I am sorry that this journey hasn't worked out for you. Maybe you'll get the itch again later and give it a try again. Best of luck to you!
 
OP decided to give up on being a doctor to continue with EMS?

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but you seem okay with the current trajectory?

Best of luck man. Keep your options open because a lot of times your gut is correct, and EMS might be a pleasant distraction right now, but a distraction it may end up being.

Perhaps all the rides, the trauma, the helping of people gave you that feeling like you found your place. You were putting in all this hard work to get there, and you found some of it now. Will that be enough 10-20-30 years from now? Those are the questions you need answered. If the answer is not a clear and unequivocally yes, get back into the classroom and finish what you started.
 
I'm sorry to hear things didn't go as planned, but I'm happy to see your optamism. It can't be easy being a non-trad.

Best of luck to you 👍

Thanks for the advice.
 
OP decided to give up on being a doctor to continue with EMS?

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but you seem okay with the current trajectory?

Best of luck man. Keep your options open because a lot of times your gut is correct, and EMS might be a pleasant distraction right now, but a distraction it may end up being.

Perhaps all the rides, the trauma, the helping of people gave you that feeling like you found your place. You were putting in all this hard work to get there, and you found some of it now. Will that be enough 10-20-30 years from now? Those are the questions you need answered. If the answer is not a clear and unequivocally yes, get back into the classroom and finish what you started.

Yeah, I need to pull off on this tangent too. I actually had typed out a pretty lengthy response yesterday but decided not to post it because it sounded too bitter.

The bottom line is this, EMS is candy for a few years at best, ESPECIALLY for someone who was pre-med with dreams of being a doctor. I happen to work for an extremely busy department, and while the occasional "real life emergency" can be exciting and rewarding, the reality is that EMS does not remain emotionally or intellectually stimulating for very long for most people. On top of that, plan on about 90-95% of your runs being complete garbage, which only adds to your frustration. Sure the 3am drunk is funny and quirky and something to joke about with your family for now, but pretty soon the 3am drunk just makes you angry for waking you up at 3am because he decided to take a nap at the bus stop where someone called 911 because "THIS MAN IS UNCONSCIOUS, HELP HIM!"

So my recommendation is this - button down whatever coursework you're in now, wrap thing up, but don't burn any bridges or close any doors by giving up midway through any classes. Go play medic for awhile, and if/when you hit the inevitable "wow, IV/O2/EKG really isn't doing it for me anymore", you can pick up right where you left off.

Good luck!
 
I sincerely hope this doesn't rub you the wrong way, but if I were you, I would want someone to say this to me.

I think you may come to regret this decision a few years from now, and have a chip on your shoulder for "almost getting in to med school".

If for some reason your stats arent high enough, you can go the carribean or the DO route. You can do whatever you want.

Once the burnout feeling wears off, your desire to achieve is going to come back full force, and you are going to regret the lost time.

Source - I was an untrad career changer and got burned out as well. This **** isnt easy.

I implore you. Dont drop your classes, take some time off of work to recharge, and get your head back in the game. Quit your job if you must and hop on the financial aid train.

Now. Youve put all this time and effort into this. This is your "dare to be great moment". Own it. Breathe. Believe. Receive. Tap into all that you are. Your potential is unstoppable. Hold strong.

IMMORTALITY. IT IS YOURS. TAKE IT - Achilles
 
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What we have here is a basic "which koolaid are you going to drink?" standoff.
 
What we have here is a basic "which koolaid are you going to drink?" standoff.

Well said, as always. A non-trad has to keep questioning themselves. Am I ready? Am I sufficiently challenging myself? It's scary to think it might be too late when/if I find out that I still haven't broken the habit of playing down to the competition.
 
i love this story. Hang on tight while the aftershocks play out. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

For 8 years i've been expecting roughly the same thing to happen to me - to get distracted from med school by something i want just as much or more. With 16 days to go before i'm an m1, please oh please not now...

Best of luck to you.

your perspective is intimidatingly admirable. Methinks the medical community might have just lost out, but not you. Thank you for the advice.

well said, as always. A non-trad has to keep questioning themselves. Am i ready? Am i sufficiently challenging myself? It's scary to think it might be too late when/if i find out that i still haven't broken the habit of playing down to the competition.

+1

Oh and btw, OP I think a B is better than a W then an A. There's nothing wrong with a B. As a non-trad working full-time, volunteering, taking classes, and fresh off all that while studying for the MCAT, I can tell you that I wouldn't have been able to do it if my girlfriend was counting on my for as much support as yours was considering the "significant health issues." I will be picking up a part-time job tutoring soon and everytime I read stories like yours I wonder if I'm piling on too much. Only time will tell.

Thank you for your story, your perspective, and your honesty. Medicine is only worth it if it makes you happy. Best of luck to you.
 
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What we have here is a basic "which koolaid are you going to drink?" standoff.
Agree.

Here's something that I would want someone farther down the path to tell me if I were one of those med school or bust kind of premeds: medicine isn't for everyone. It may not be for the OP. If it's not, that's ok. If he quits his prereqs mid-stride because he doesn't want to go to med school any more, that's ok too. If he loves EMS and wants to spend the rest of his career doing it, that's also ok. He doesn't have to be a doctor. And in his case, he's not in six figure debt yet where it's too late to get out of continuing with his medical training because he can't afford to quit. So if he's going to quit, now is definitely the time to do it.

Going to medical school doesn't make you special. It doesn't mean you're better than other people. It doesn't make you a more valuable contributor to society than other working people. So, OP, if you love EMS as much as you say, then screw prereqs, MCAT prep, and med school. Screw anyone who tells you that you're settling for less because you don't want to go to med school any more. You don't have to go to medical school just because you started out planning to go to medical school. It's infinitely better to be an EMS provider excited to go to work every day than a bitter, miserable doc. And believe me, there are plenty of 'em.
 
Agree.

Here's something that I would want someone farther down the path to tell me if I were one of those med school or bust kind of premeds: medicine isn't for everyone. It may not be for the OP. If it's not, that's ok. If he quits his prereqs mid-stride because he doesn't want to go to med school any more, that's ok too. If he loves EMS and wants to spend the rest of his career doing it, that's also ok. He doesn't have to be a doctor. And in his case, he's not in six figure debt yet where it's too late to get out of continuing with his medical training because he can't afford to quit. So if he's going to quit, now is definitely the time to do it.

Going to medical school doesn't make you special. It doesn't mean you're better than other people. It doesn't make you a more valuable contributor to society than other working people. So, OP, if you love EMS as much as you say, then screw prereqs, MCAT prep, and med school. Screw anyone who tells you that you're settling for less because you don't want to go to med school any more. You don't have to go to medical school just because you started out planning to go to medical school. It's infinitely better to be an EMS provider excited to go to work every day than a bitter, miserable doc. And believe me, there are plenty of 'em.


👍
 
You must feel so free right now. The past 3 years of my life have been stressing and worrying about getting into med school. I envy you.
 
Shadow early.

Shadowing early is a bit unrealistic. Unless you like tons of cold-calling and rejections, you're going to have to put invest time into clinical EC's to build the relationships to do this. At one place, they required 100 hours before they let you shadow. At another, I had 200+ hours and they still couldn't guarantee that they'd let me shadow. I can go on and on.

Should perhaps be re-stated to say Don't wait til the end to shadow....
 
Shadowing early is a bit unrealistic. Unless you like tons of cold-calling and rejections, you're going to have to put invest time into clinical EC's to build the relationships to do this. At one place, they required 100 hours before they let you shadow. At another, I had 200+ hours and they still couldn't guarantee that they'd let me shadow. I can go on and on.

Should perhaps be re-stated to say Don't wait til the end to shadow....

It's really not that hard to call a bunch of offices asking to shadow there. I have tons of volunteering experience and never needed (or tried to use) it to get a shadowing gig.
 
Shadowing early is a bit unrealistic. Unless you like tons of cold-calling and rejections, you're going to have to put invest time into clinical EC's to build the relationships to do this. At one place, they required 100 hours before they let you shadow. At another, I had 200+ hours and they still couldn't guarantee that they'd let me shadow. I can go on and on.

Should perhaps be re-stated to say Don't wait til the end to shadow....

I'm not sure he actually meant the kind of shadowing that is required for a med school application, I think his intention was more to point out that non-trads without a medical background might have an overly idealistic view of what it is like to work in medicine. It would be much better to shatter that vision early than doing so after one spends thousands of dollars on pre-reqs. Shadow early, get an idea of what you're getting into, then go for it.

Then again, I've already proven in this thread that due to ADD, my reading comprehension is terrible.
 
It's really not that hard to call a bunch of offices asking to shadow there. I have tons of volunteering experience and never needed (or tried to use) it to get a shadowing gig.

Ditto. I haven't had problems shadowing at all. Call up a small community clinic or something. Stay away from large academic med centers and you should be fine.
 
Great thread bro.

Getting hammered by surgery right now. Just came off a 30 hour call with the Trauma team this weekend.

And I burned out after the first exam in biochemistry somewhere back there.

I get put in one situation after another where I'm the dumbest person to my left or right. Front or back. And then it just keeps going like that.

Sometime after I stumbled out of a deep sleep, the rudeness of my pager uncool, and zombied my way to the ED. I just thought to myself. Really? Drunk dude's face vs. sidewalk......and I'm not feeling anything, besides wondering at my inability to concentrate on mundane tasks. I'm turning 40. I consider myself a patient advocate. But I'm feeling nothing, besides, dude...if you just consumed a human amount of alcohol and smoked just a little less k-2, I'd be clinging to sleep like a baby to a breast right now. A very inappropriate Stewie-like baby. Too the last breast on earth.

And so as a counterpoint to your cultural counterpoint...no, this thing will not be here for you indefinitely. It gets harder the older you get. And you might not always be the strapping young lad(lass) you are now. Capable of hoisting the drunks out of gutters.

But good **** man.

It's a job. No different than the baker and the candlestick maker. Except the candlestick maker is out of a job. And I won't be. If I can make it. And like the Q said. Because this **** has to work out now. I'm all in. Just lucky to have found what I think is a path through it where somewhere over the rainbow my skies are blue.

But almost luck though. No...totally luck. I was happy and in shape. No I'm backed against the ropes taking brutal punches of stress, fatigue, atrophy, and dytopia. And only luck has squared the deal. And convinced me that the beating can only go on so long.

It's a privilege. But it comes at a price.
 
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Dr. Midlife, Q and Abider, reasons # 968-970 why I like the nontrad forum.
 

The OP may not be replying for at least a short while; "The grand plan is off. Over. Done. Finis. Aborted, not retried, and ignored." Like in Rookie of the Year, when Henry goes from playing baseball and hanging out with his friends to just playing baseball, and not hanging out anymore.🙁
 
(...is a B in your post-bacc Organic Chem I class really that bad? I would have never thought of getting a W and retaking it to get an A! Could anyone else weigh in on this?)

OP, thanks for sharing what you went through. Sounds like you've been doing a lot of introspection. Hope you are getting back on your feet after what sounds like a rough semester.
 

EMS is a trap.

Everyone in this firehouse who does EMS wants to go to medical school. They ride four shifts a week, but they have 3.0s and 2.5s. They get to be first on scene and push the drugs, and they think it matters. They think that'll make up for the dismal GPA.

It doesn't, and it won't.

My case was and is different: I have the GPA to be competitive. Instead, I got seduced. EMS is the candy, and when you're slogging through memorizing stuff, candy is tasty and fun. Now I'm dropping my last year of prereqs to become an ALS provider. I have no regrets, but at the same time, I can tell you I wouldn't have gotten sidetracked by folding blankets.

Burnout is real.

I didn't quit my job. If the goal was medical school, I should have.

None of the above are irrecoverable. I probably could have continued with the cycle, if I'd wanted to. But I didn't. I was too burned out. I still am. If I'd quit my job, that wouldn't have happened. I'm glad I didn't, because it wasn't feasible within my parameters... but not doing so was a direct contributor to the demise of this plan. And so, if this is what you really want, make the sacrifice and do it right.


, I suspect that a single B in postbacc work is better than a W and then an A, even though it's not the answer I want. SDN confirmation would be appreciated.)

***


OP,

Very eye-opening post. Thanks for bringing it out here.

I'm a volly firefighter (we do 80% EMS) and work full time, about to enter my 2nd year of prereqs in the postbacc. GPA is 3.4, but sGPA floundering at 3.0.

I don't want to fully disagree with you, because EMS can be fun, but I think it's the workload that really will bog you down. Working full time 40+ plus 10-12 credits a semester - that to me is much more of a drain. You need the hands on experience from somewhere, and you'll get a nice letter or rec and show public/community service - I don't really think volunteering EMS is the killer. If I wasn't working full time, (and I'm cutting back to 30 a week) I would be able to raise each grade a half letter or more.

Your frustration and burnout is real, but I would hope if I found myself in your place one day, that I would rethink the finality of my decision to quit cold.

I don't think a B is going to kill you...IDK, but I've talked to a great many docs who have shared their weaknesses, like my family MD who got a "C" in physics. It's not over by one bad grade.

Best of luck mate.
 
Great thread bro.

Getting hammered by surgery right now. Just came off a 30 hour call with the Trauma team this weekend.

And I burned out after the first exam in biochemistry somewhere back there.

I get put in one situation after another where I'm the dumbest person to my left or right. Front or back. And then it just keeps going like that.

Sometime after I stumbled out of a deep sleep, the rudeness of my pager uncool, and zombied my way to the ED. I just thought to myself. Really? Drunk dude's face vs. sidewalk......and I'm not feeling anything, besides wondering at my inability to concentrate on mundane tasks. I'm turning 40. I consider myself a patient advocate. But I'm feeling nothing, besides, dude...if you just consumed a human amount of alcohol and smoked just a little less k-2, I'd be clinging to sleep like a baby to a breast right now. A very inappropriate Stewie-like baby. Too the last breast on earth.

And so as a counterpoint to your cultural counterpoint...no, this thing will not be here for you indefinitely. It gets harder the older you get. And you might not always be the strapping young lad(lass) you are now. Capable of hoisting the drunks out of gutters.

But good **** man.

It's a job. No different than the baker and the candlestick maker. Except the candlestick maker is out of a job. And I won't be. If I can make it. And like the Q said. Because this **** has to work out now. I'm all in. Just lucky to have found what I think is a path through it where somewhere over the rainbow my skies are blue.

But almost luck though. No...totally luck. I was happy and in shape. No I'm backed against the ropes taking brutal punches of stress, fatigue, atrophy, and dytopia. And only luck has squared the deal. And convinced me that the beating can only go on so long.

It's a privilege. But it comes at a price.

Write a book. Seriously, I dig your writing style, I would buy and read it.
 
I mean it's no lie. There are very exciting or intriguing aspects of healthcare that can really get you kicking. This was my experience early on in critical care nursing. EVERYONE that is human and lets themselves really get sucked into the machine can easily get burned out. That's why they ask you about balance in your life. When I went into nursing, I never really thought of medicine as an option. Also, well, I knew I wanted a family--which I found out the hard way doesn't always come as easily as you hope.
But all the exiting stuff is generally only so exiting for so long in light of staring at what's really in front of you. That is the really sick, really stressed, and sometimes really tough to handle people. And the medical student poster is right. You don't have forever to do it. Even if you are a young 40 or so.

I can't look at things the way I did when I first went into nursing-- or even later on. I so love critical care. I love the thinking and doing parts of it. The craziness of critical care medicine, however, is not something I could see myself doing until I am 80--realistically speaking. I know I'd probably love it the most--you know, minus the idiotic politics. But it's about as realistic for me to go for that as say becoming a top CT surgeon.

One aspect of insight my nursing experience, especially in critical care, has given me is that I can more readily be realistic. Again, doing CCM into my 80s--interesting, but not realistic.

I think there is a difference between being realistic and settling. But I also think OP you may just need a while to regroup. If that's what it is, then fine. If not, still, it's still good.

But there is a trap in getting to caught up in certain types of healthcare positions--b/c you are so much closer--you have this front-row seat to many things. It's a plus, but it can also be a minus. But then if you do it long enough, the glory of all of it wears off. You realize it's a job. True, perhaps a very vital, important job. But everyone has their role, and it's all rather small in the big scheme of things. It's big in the movement, but you come to see that in the larger picture, really it's not. You cherish the small picture perspective, but you come to accept the reality of the larger picture--and you do the best you can with all of it.

I learned through nursing that as much as you can love what you do, you should never let it define you as a person. But we all do this. We say, I am a this or that! Rather, we should say, I work in this profession or that profession. We start this nonsense in secondary education. We say, I will have my BS or my MS or my PhD or my whatever. This always struck me as funny. Your degree? As if it were the main possession that makes you who you are! It's a degree. It means you put in the work required to have a basic understanding of whatever to whatever point that degree indicates. Truth is, it doesn't mean a lot until you work in it for a while. And that will always be so, even though various forces will push the whole idea of titling people so that they may feel like they can know "who" or "what" they are.Like the degree or some terminal degree will make them whoever. That kind of thinking is a trap.

I don't think that happiness and joy are about getting what you want necessarily. I think they involve doing what you are really meant to do--purpose--mission. But I'm philosophical like that so. . .

OP, you had a tough run. Take a breather. Sit by the ocean. Watch the sunset or sunrise. Feel that wind on your face. Breath that sea breeze. You will figure it out.

But I do take your words and the words of others here under advisement. I also believe that every day is a journey--some days more eventful than others. But I could pop an unknown aneurysm. I could get hit in some drug war crossfire. Likelier yet, get crushed to a pulp in a horrible car accident. I could go to a movie and get shot by some wacko.

All I know is I am still working on the discipline of thinking like each five minutes of my life could be the last five minutes, yet stilling striving for balance as I plan, hope, dream, love, and do.

While you are taking in all that moonlight and sea air, relax and send up a message asking what you are purposed to do. Listen closely and then take it one day at a time. That's all we are given anyway. In fact, who is ever promised a full day, everyday?

I also think it was great of you to share like you did.
 
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I'm in a love/hate moment right now. Your post was probably the single thing I needed to hear.

I worked full time my first year in post-bacc. Did ok, not great or bad, but eventually burned out so hard, I had something akin to a nervous breakdown after Spring finals. This summer, I've been relaxing and getting ready to tackle the classes again...only this time I'm taking Orgo and studying for the MCAT. I'm president of the student group and I'm volunteering, shadowing, and trying to find research. This is all happening while working in a job that probably will only get me one LOR from a well-known PI. This job doesn't provide legitimate research experience or any real contribution to my future; still, it is income and I have health insurance.

I've been considering a loan now for at least a month. I flip flop because of the amount (without a job the school recommends taking out $25K) plus losing my insurance. I'm worried about the future cost even though I plan to attend med school in Texas and come out on top of the financial heap. I somehow keep convincing myself to keep working, minimize risk, and work hard.

But you're right and I know you're right. This is so important and I cannot afford to mess up the MCAT or do poorly this year. Plus, I don't think I can survive another burn-out like last year. Was it hard for you too to think about the alternative? I've worked since I was 17 - nothing scares me like building debt (though I think it is inevitable in this field).

I'm so sorry it didn't work out the way you planned, but at least you're now doing something you enjoy. I appreciate your story and your advice - it has helped to further reinforce the course that I need to take. Even through your problems and the issues you've faced, please note that by reaching out and showing what can go wrong, you ultimately told me what was right. Thanks. I really owe you one.
 
Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I forgot that I turned off my SDN e-mail notifications a while back while trying not to fail Chem and thought that the post had gone unnoticed, unremarked, shunned, leaves on a wind. Instead, when it finally occurred to me that that might be the case, I come back to a Who's Who of the rock stars of nontrads and effusive gratitude! Seriously, thank you all for your time and your words. It means a lot.

I wanted to post because I finally saw a way to give back some of what I've gotten from this forum over the years, and it appears that I was indeed able to do so. Thank you all for allowing me that opportunity, and for being here through the whole crazy ride.

I've tried to reply to people's questions/comments as necessary; if I missed anyone, smack me and I'll try to respond to yours too!

I love this story. Hang on tight while the aftershocks play out. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Your post--can't seem to find it, of course--with the line in it that goes something like "What are you willing to give up for this? Free time? Sanity? Income? Relationship? Your physical fitness? Are you willing to get fat to go to medical school?" That was one of my personal quotes. Thank you.

Oh no, not my potential MCAT twin! Sounds like you've been through Hell but I am glad to see you are on your feet. Take care my friend and I wish you the best in the future.

Oh, thank you so much! When did you reschedule to? I haven't been keeping up at all...

OP decided to give up on being a doctor to continue with EMS?

No, I'm continuing to do EMS on a volunteer basis and sticking with my current career.

The bottom line is this, EMS is candy for a few years at best, ESPECIALLY for someone who was pre-med with dreams of being a doctor. I happen to work for an extremely busy department, and while the occasional "real life emergency" can be exciting and rewarding, the reality is that EMS does not remain emotionally or intellectually stimulating for very long for most people. On top of that, plan on about 90-95% of your runs being complete garbage, which only adds to your frustration. Sure the 3am drunk is funny and quirky and something to joke about with your family for now, but pretty soon the 3am drunk just makes you angry for waking you up at 3am because he decided to take a nap at the bus stop where someone called 911 because "THIS MAN IS UNCONSCIOUS, HELP HIM!"

So my recommendation is this - button down whatever coursework you're in now, wrap thing up, but don't burn any bridges or close any doors by giving up midway through any classes. Go play medic for awhile, and if/when you hit the inevitable "wow, IV/O2/EKG really isn't doing it for me anymore", you can pick up right where you left off.

Quoting this post for truth. Because, dear nontrads: Don't be misled by my glowing description of codes and traumas and sexy things. FiremedicMike is right: The vast majority of runs are not emergencies; nor are they interesting clinical presentations.

Note the difference there. I didn't say "garbage"; I said "not emergencies." Garbage is in the eye of the beholder. Now, that's not at all a slag on FiremedicMike: if I did EMS full-time, I'd feel exactly how he does. But, even with a thousand hours under my belt (which is only six months of full-time experience, I'd like to point out), I'm still a baby EMS provider.

During the week, I go sit in a cubicle and do a desk job. That makes it a lot sexier to pick up the drunk at 3am one or two nights a week. Oooh, sirens! Oooh, probies to train! Oooh, maybe this drunk will be the atypical presentation of the subdural bleed! Oooh, good stories and an opportunity to practice on somebody! Because I'm there to run calls, not to earn money, I think that way. If I started doing it as a job, though? I'd be there because, well, it was my job, and at that point you get paid the same for sleeping as for crummy calls as for really good calls.

One additional point that really helps keep it interesting for me: in my world, the "medicine" (such as it is) in EMS is the easy part. The bedside manner, the reassurance, the history, the patient interview? Those are the hard parts. So it's still interesting for me, even with the drunks. Sometimes it's even more interesting with the drunks.

In short: A change is as good as a rest, but I couldn't do EMS full-time. I'd be the bitterest bitter that ever bittered.

I think you guys missed the part where he's got a day job. EMS is on the side.

Dzerz, you want to confirm?

As usual, got it in one.

I sincerely hope this doesn't rub you the wrong way, but if I were you, I would want someone to say this to me.

I wouldn't have posted if I didn't want comments. Thank you for sharing.

I think you may come to regret this decision a few years from now, and have a chip on your shoulder for "almost getting in to med school".

It's certainly possible, and if I do, I'll go back, finish the prereqs, and apply.

If for some reason your stats arent high enough, you can go the carribean or the DO route. You can do whatever you want.

With a decent MCAT, my stats are competitive for allopathic U.S. institutions. Not Hopkins, but I never expected to go to Hopkins.

Once the burnout feeling wears off, your desire to achieve is going to come back full force, and you are going to regret the lost time.

With all respect, I have to point something out here: "desire to achieve."

I won't get into a list here, partly because some of the things are specific enough that it might actually compromise my anonymity and partly because it'd come off as gratuitous bragging, but I've been privileged enough to have done a lot of cool stuff in my life. You know the "compelling personal story" clause? I haz it.

I have performed caretaking duties from when I was a young child. (Which also, by the way, comes in as a handy background for doing EMS!) I started working in high school and haven't stepped off the treadmill since. I worked through three degrees, sometimes full-time, and still graduated at or near the top of each class. At the moment, by day, I'm at the top of my field, doing something interesting that makes a difference (albeit not in a direct hands-on patient-care way) to a lot of people. And by night, I get to go play EMS superhero!

With this decision to temporarily abandon the Doom Plan (tm)? I stepped off the treadmill. I stopped killing myself. I temporarily conquered the constant, gnawing drive of inadequacy--the overachiever's inferiority complex--that has run my life since I was that small child.

In my world, for me, that's a bigger achievement than getting into medical school.

Source - I was an untrad career changer and got burned out as well. This **** isnt easy.

I implore you. Dont drop your classes, take some time off of work to recharge, and get your head back in the game. Quit your job if you must and hop on the financial aid train.

Now. Youve put all this time and effort into this. This is your "dare to be great moment". Own it. Breathe. Believe. Receive. Tap into all that you are. Your potential is unstoppable. Hold strong.

IMMORTALITY. IT IS YOURS. TAKE IT - Achilles

See, here's the thing.

There are a lot of people here for whom the point of the time and effort are going to medical school. It is, in part, for those people that I wrote my post, because avoiding the things I flagged as mistakes will help in service of the grand cause of going to medical school.

For me? It wasn't. For me, the point was shoving my face into a meat grinder. Because that's what I do. That's what I'm always doing. Finding new and better meat grinders into which I can shove my face! Because a life without a meat grinder is no life at all, right? And I couldn't think of a better meat grinder than medicine, coming from a background in which my only failing grade ever was in a BCPM subject.

I did it, in part, originally, because I thought on some level that it was something I couldn't do. The thrill of the chase, right?

I came to realize I could, in fact, do it... but that I no longer, at this moment, willing to pay the price.

What we have here is a basic "which koolaid are you going to drink?" standoff.

First, I almost blew tea out of my nose.

Second, it really is, and that's why I took care to flag "this wasn't a mistake for me, but it's a mistake if your abiding goal is getting to medical school."

It's infinitely better to be an EMS provider excited to go to work every day than a bitter, miserable doc. And believe me, there are plenty of 'em.

Without going into details that are not mine to share: This is why I say "shadow early." I knew there were burned-out docs. I knew there were plenty in my intended specialty. Seeing it up close and personal, and seeing the culture surrounding it, and--more importantly--seeing the day-to-day battle rhythms, and no longer being in awe of how shiny it all was? It did a lot for my decision.

With that said, I couldn't do EMS full-time, either. Not enough intellectual stimulation for me.

But speaking of shadowing:

Shadowing early is a bit unrealistic. Unless you like tons of cold-calling and rejections, you're going to have to put invest time into clinical EC's to build the relationships to do this. At one place, they required 100 hours before they let you shadow. At another, I had 200+ hours and they still couldn't guarantee that they'd let me shadow. I can go on and on.

None of my shadowing leveraged my volunteering in any way. Nor did it leverage my personal physicians, an oft-repeated truism.

I cold-emailed physicians working in my intended specialty who were at large academic medical centers. I sent them a note of introduction, a couple words about where I was in the process and my background, occasionally made reference to their research if it was of interest to me, and asked to shadow them for a couple shifts.

Nobody said no, and only one person didn't respond at all.

I get put in one situation after another where I'm the dumbest person to my left or right. Front or back. And then it just keeps going like that.

Yes. This. I knew this was going to happen to me. I'm smart, but I'm not that smart; my real strength is in synthesis, not raw intelligence and memorization.

You have to be plenty excited to willingly eat that poop hot dog for the first two years, and I realized that I no longer was.

And so as a counterpoint to your cultural counterpoint...no, this thing will not be here for you indefinitely. It gets harder the older you get.

This is very true. I'm fortunate that I'm still on the youngish side, by nontrad standards. If I were pushing fifty, I'm sure I'd feel differently. I hope I would make the same decision, but I don't know if I would.

I don't want to fully disagree with you, because EMS can be fun, but I think it's the workload that really will bog you down. Working full time 40+ plus 10-12 credits a semester - that to me is much more of a drain. You need the hands on experience from somewhere, and you'll get a nice letter or rec and show public/community service - I don't really think volunteering EMS is the killer. If I wasn't working full time, (and I'm cutting back to 30 a week) I would be able to raise each grade a half letter or more.

Your frustration and burnout is real, but I would hope if I found myself in your place one day, that I would rethink the finality of my decision to quit cold.

To be clear, I was working full-time-plus in a different field plus taking a full-time load of units (save for last term--I cut back to part-time last term) plus doing EMS, and I was suggesting that potential followers of the path quit their jobs instead of EMS or whatever clinical experience activity.

You're quite right that you need the clinical experience and quite right that it's doable on top of the credits--it has to be! But the job, too? I would have better set myself up to succeed if I had quit it. I hope that clarifies.
 
Your post--can't seem to find it, of course--with the line in it that goes something like "What are you willing to give up for this? Free time? Sanity? Income? Relationship? Your physical fitness? Are you willing to get fat to go to medical school?"
Whoa, that was in 2008.
Another thing I STRONGLY recommend is to be willing to walk away if med school's not REALLY what you want...all the way through med school and residency and beyond, there's no if, it's WHEN you want to quit, as in every other day. You can't do medicine for any other reason (money, prestige, parents) than that YOU really rabidly want the job that's on the other side of 7-12 years of training where you don't sleep, don't get paid or get paid crap, and everything else in your life falls by the wayside. (Are you willing to get fat for this? Are you willing to give up your basketball time to save your marriage? Are you willing to miss your kids' piano recitals? Are you willing to let attendings walk all over you, day after week after year?)

I have nothing but respect for my premed colleagues who've said "nope, this isn't the right thing to do" and walked away after going for it hard.
 
I'm 34. I'm an M3. And I vibe w/ what's been going on here.

I usually make it my "job" to talk down people off the ledge. If I add more doubt than let's say anger, at least it shows that whomever I talk to is so damned sure they want to complete this journey to being a physician. If I add doubt, it's also ok.

This is NOT easy, even for a non-trad/older student. Where maybe some of the people who opined in here have closer peer "support" when you are older than your peers there's still that gap. All they want to do is get wasted after a tough exam. And if you're "grown up" that's not what is necessarily on your mind. And you can D-drive, but then you end up w/ a bunch of drunken fools, rolling your eyes. lol

Understand that maybe you have the most ideal goals in the world for being a physician. HOWEVER, N.B. that it's probably 7-10 years of hell before they even come close to fruition. And I feel like, since you are mature enough to reach your conclusion, you kept this in mind, or even caught a "flavor" for this when you shadowed.

Medicine these days DOES suck when you take off the rose-colored glasses. Even if you end up as a CT surgeon or a neurosurgeon, the cause of a lot of the patients you will have are preventable my modifiable lifestyle changes. We want to help people, great. However, when you have a litany of people who just ate garbage, or kept smoking or never exercised a day in their life turning up sick, and you understand after interviewing them and talking to them, that they probably won't change after your treatment and encounter, it really takes the luster off of the dream!

Write orders for a low-sodium, low fat diet for your new hypertensive obese admit. His family will just sneak him junk food anyways more often than not! Sit there at your follow up w/ the type II diabetic woman w/ the A1c > 8.5% and tell her to go walking in addition to her meds. She'll be right there at her 8.5% and she'll tell you in the last month she DID go walking...2x.

ED patients will be lame-o things. It's NOT ER. IM patients will be lame too. It's NOT House. Your surgery board won't be tons of insanely complicated surgeries like in Grey's Anatomy.

Understanding that medicine now is a business where your customer, sorry I mean...patients are almost always right is a necessary step for you, or any non-trad (or even traditional student) to reach when you decide you want to go to med school!!!

You have to be a "loser" for 2 years of your life during basic sciences. And a busy busy med student in clinical rotations. And an exhausted intern and resident. Just to be in the business! And maybe 7 to 10 years from now you'll have a chance to open your own practice. Or work for a cool group.

It's hard work for sure, just to get IN to med school. But that IS practically the EASY part!!!!!

7-10 years!!

Best of luck!!!

P.S. - I never said I personally didn't enjoy any of what I said. But that's why I'm still doing what I do and going forward!!! 🙂
 
Shadowing early is a bit unrealistic. Unless you like tons of cold-calling and rejections, you're going to have to put invest time into clinical EC's to build the relationships to do this. At one place, they required 100 hours before they let you shadow. At another, I had 200+ hours and they still couldn't guarantee that they'd let me shadow. I can go on and on.

Should perhaps be re-stated to say Don't wait til the end to shadow....

First off, I'm glad that the OP found a path that works for them, med school or not. The important point is that they are happy.

I think what I got out of the OPs message more than shadow early, is that one should not go into medicine wanting 100% to be in one specialty and nothing else. That's one of the things I've seen ruin some people's day...even those who are already in med school.

#1 unless you've shadowed extensively you have no idea if you're going to like it
#2 if it's a tough specialty to get into then there's no certainty that you're going to match into it.

Most of my classmates that are happiest are the ones who enjoy medicine in general and are finding out as we go along what facets they enjoy and what they dislike. For instance, I never would have thought I would like pathology, but after spending some time with pathologists I was shocked. Also, I could have never guessed how much I would dislike geriatrics. Learn something new everyday.
 
Agree.

Here's something that I would want someone farther down the path to tell me if I were one of those med school or bust kind of premeds: medicine isn't for everyone. It may not be for the OP. If it's not, that's ok. If he quits his prereqs mid-stride because he doesn't want to go to med school any more, that's ok too. If he loves EMS and wants to spend the rest of his career doing it, that's also ok. He doesn't have to be a doctor. And in his case, he's not in six figure debt yet where it's too late to get out of continuing with his medical training because he can't afford to quit. So if he's going to quit, now is definitely the time to do it.

Going to medical school doesn't make you special. It doesn't mean you're better than other people. It doesn't make you a more valuable contributor to society than other working people. So, OP, if you love EMS as much as you say, then screw prereqs, MCAT prep, and med school. Screw anyone who tells you that you're settling for less because you don't want to go to med school any more. You don't have to go to medical school just because you started out planning to go to medical school. It's infinitely better to be an EMS provider excited to go to work every day than a bitter, miserable doc. And believe me, there are plenty of 'em.
Amen to that! there are plenty of doctors who have an attitude that says "I don't really feel like doing this anymore, but I couldn't stop the train I was on once I got started years ago."
 
I can't say for sure, b/c I just skimmed through Dzerzhinsky's posts. But I have seen this with people that have kids, especially young children. People can say it isn't a factor, but often it is. When you have kids, especially more than one, and they are small, something changes in your thinking. It's natural. Pretty much, they become your whole world--or a least the bigger part of it. Sure some people aren't like that, but a lot of us that have children, especially if we had to work at it, well we are enamored by many aspects of it--and something changes within us and in the way we think.

Hey, not everyone wants to be a parent either--or at least they feel pretty strongly about this--at least until they don't anymore. 😉

I think you can do both, but it's really hard, especially when your kids are on the younger side. Even when they are teens, um, parenting then can be pretty darn challenging on a whole other level.

I think that was another reason I didn't pursue it earlier. Comment on it as you like, but you do give up your life for your kids---at least a huge part of it. For me, even with nursing, parenting was the full-time job. I just honestly couldn't view it any other way. Every flipping decision seemed to involve them and working a solution or issue around them--always. Just the way it was.

And now that I've done it, shoot I can even understand how divorced parents don't get involved in relationships out of concern for their children. I am not saying it's right or wrong. I am just saying, my best friend is in this situation, and I can see her point of view--although I don't want her to not have solid male companionship--but it has also restrained her from continuing her education. Having children changed the way she thinks about many things.

Point here is that I don't know if OP has children or is thinking about having children; but children change things a lot, and that is just the truth. (Has that issue impacted his/her decision?) As true as that is, however, children grow and change so rapidly you never cease to be amazed by it--ever.

The one side of that is you feel compelled to be there and give them your best; but the other side of that is, they are moving ahead--onward--forward--as they are supposed to--and you work your way out of a job in parenting. The role changes and you become more of a counselor and friend when they get ready for college. So, it's not a bad idea to have a purposeful plan and to at least be progressively working on it, even when the kids are little. It's hard to sit back and think of 10-15 years into the future, but you have to play the video, b/c it's coming--and it's coming faster than you think. It's kind of like retirement thinking. For God's sake, have a plan so that you don't retire and then prematurely die--like many folks do. At least this has been what I have seen. Even traveling in retirement can get old. Have a purposeful plan--just like having a purposeful plan for when the nest empties. I started out pretty young, so I have a lot of living, God willing, after the nest is empty.

So I don't know what the OP's plan with or after children is or what it is even for retirement. But I do have to wonder if the settling down with kids factor is an issue.

Again, I mean, yes. It's important to be there for you kids and walk with them, throw the football, guide them, all of that. But again, just know that if you are doing your job right as a parent, your are working yourself out of a job.

So then if you think about it, really the work-intensive role of parenting takes up only about 22.5% of your life--if you live to be 80. If you minus out your childhood and early adult years and parenting time, you could still have over 40% of your life to live if you live to be 80.

Again, it may be that the OP of this thread truly decided that this gig is just not for her/him. To that I say, "Great." "You have figured it out, and you are cool with it." But I also wonder if he/her, or possibly others, may feel like they are missing out of life--thus calling it quits--when really they aren't necessarily. I mean I can't say. I don't know the individual OP's life or anyone else's, and I am not about to pretend like I do.

I am just saying this long process to medicine may be one of those things that you have to keep balancing and fine turning--all through the process.

I mean I hear what Dr. Midlife is saying:


"Another thing I STRONGLY recommend is to be willing to walk away if med school's not REALLY what you want...all the way through med school and residency and beyond, there's no if, it's WHEN you want to quit, as in every other day. You can't do medicine for any other reason (money, prestige, parents) than that YOU really rabidly want the job that's on the other side of 7-12 years of training where you don't sleep, don't get paid or get paid crap, and everything else in your life falls by the wayside. (Are you willing to get fat for this? Are you willing to give up your basketball time to save your marriage? Are you willing to miss your kids' piano recitals? Are you willing to let attendings walk all over you, day after week after year?
I have nothing but respect for my premed colleagues who've said "nope, this isn't the right thing to do" and walked away after going for it hard."(Originally Posted by DrMidlife)


At the same time, we have to look at all the factors that may be influencing our thinking. If OP is satisfied with what he is doing and can see himself happy and fulfilled in that another 40 years down the road, so be it and God bless him (or her--sorry not sure which it is).

On the other hand, a break may be what is needed before putting that hand to plow versus pulling it away.
For me, I know that I will not find anything else as purposeful and fulfilling. It may be a hard row to hoe, but I am at peace with the "fit" of this path for me. I know there are no guarantees in life. But I am sure this is the field where I belong. It took be a while to finally come to terms with it. If I am scheduled to get hit by as asteroid tomorrow, while the plan would seem strange to me, I feel secure about walking this great, but pain in the butt path.

It is certainly true that one doesn't have to be a physician to do fulfilling work--that is definitely for sure. I know this because I have done it. But when you know that your mind and spirit seem to fit with it like a nice fitting glove--especially after you have done other fulfilling work, there has to be something to it. For me it's like this. No guarantees, but much of it is about more than try. . ."Do or do not. There is not try." It's a Yoda thing. Yes, I not only borrowed that from Stars Wars, but from another nontrad that completed medical school. What can I say, I think the person nailed it.
Another cool one:

"“[Luke:] I can’t believe it. [Yoda:] That is why you fail.”
 
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Write orders for a low-sodium, low fat diet for your new hypertensive obese admit. His family will just sneak him junk food anyways more often than not! Sit there at your follow up w/ the type II diabetic woman w/ the A1c > 8.5% and tell her to go walking in addition to her meds. She'll be right there at her 8.5% and she'll tell you in the last month she DID go walking...2x.

Low fat? How much of current nutrition research do you study in medical school, if you don't mind my asking?

I appreciate your post for the insight it gave into the life of a med student.
 
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I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Thanks so much for the advise and life lessons. Wish you the best.
 
I think what I got out of the OPs message more than shadow early, is that one should not go into medicine wanting 100% to be in one specialty and nothing else. That's one of the things I've seen ruin some people's day...even those who are already in med school.

#1 unless you've shadowed extensively you have no idea if you're going to like it
#2 if it's a tough specialty to get into then there's no certainty that you're going to match into it.

I would agree with this wholeheartedly. It's excellent advice. Unfortunately, the cart was before the horse from the start for me. My ex, a physician, knew I was contemplating a career switch and suggested that particular specialty as a good fit for my requirements.

In terms of competitiveness, it wasn't psych, but it also wasn't ortho. I knew all along that I'd be applying broadly for residency, given the consequences of not matching, and was reasonably sure I'd be able to get a slot.

I was aware that most medical students change their minds about specialty several times, even if they go back to that first specialty, and I did have a list of five or six other possibilities. I was planning to investigate those at the usual time, in the clinical years. I haven't shadowed in any of them, but if I ever decide to hop back on the train (and I do think there's a chance I might), I probably will.

tl;dr: You're right. This is another piece of "SDN was right." If you can avoid locking in early, do. Thanks for pointing it out.

So I don't know what the OP's plan with or after children is or what it is even for retirement. But I do have to wonder if the settling down with kids factor is an issue.

Thanks for taking the time to post. Kids are not a factor in this decision; I don't plan to have them. Obviously that too could change, but it's quite a ways off if it does.

I posted for two reasons: one, to provide a sanity check on "how it went" (since a lot of people post about their grand plans to do MCAT and 47 credits and work full-time while caring for their 17 cousins whose parents were tragically killed in a car crash while keeping a 4.0, shadowing, volunteering, and doing research... but for some reason, few of those people come back to tell us how it went) and thus reaffirm the wisdom of the traditional wisdom heard round these here parts, and two, to say that calling it off is not necessarily the end of the world, if that's what's right for you. Obviously that's a message that isn't heard much, and it doesn't need to be, because this is the only outlet for a lot of folks; I know I didn't talk about my plans much except for SDN. But an occasional counterpoint is not necessarily a bad thing.
 
It is not an easy path - I appreciate the "downer" posts as much as I appreciate the insprining posts of "can you believe I got in?!" posts.

Thanks for the lessons

Carla
 
Yeah, that DrMidlife line about willing to get fat to go to medical school still sticks in my mind to this day... le sigh.

Good for you for being honest and true with yourself OP.
 
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