Second bachelor's in chem, bad first - chances?

[agdavismv]

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Hi everyone,

My wife is thinking of going back to school for a second bachelor's to prepare for med school, and then apply. Please discuss the chances.

Undergrad degree in Education from UC Riverside. No "real" science classes taken. cGPA 2.75

Assume that she gets a second bachelor's in chemistry and completes the other medical prerequisites and does very well -- say a 3.8+ science GPA (please don't comment on the reality of her achieving this GPA, assume that she can). Also assume she gets a "high" MCAT.

As far as non-academic, she has been a very successful swim coach for a junior-olympic level swim team for 8+ years, and has been a teacher for 2 years. Can definitely sell the "leadership" theme.

We are trying to figure out if she even has a chance to get into med school. It would need to be either UC Irvine, UCLA, UCSD, or USC, as I cannot relocate due to the nature of my career.

If you need more information, please let me know. Thanks a lot.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

need more info. what is her timeline? how many credits does she have and how many is she planning on taking? what does she have planned for ECs? Volunteering? Research?

you need to understand regardless though that you guys are planning on her applying and getting accepted to some of the nations most competitive schools and she is starting with a horrible GPA. you tell us to assume she can make a 3.8 and she currently has a 2.75 in nonscience and sciences are notoriously much harder? I am sorry but maybe you need to assume she can't, in which, the CA schools are out of the question.

the biggest problem is if she does well, and she builds an application that could be worthy of medical school, you are limiting her to schools that will have applicants with 3.9 GPAs, 37 MCATs, years of research, years of volunteering, years of leadership, years of shadowing, etc. etc. you guys are facing a very long and very uphill battle.

but who am i. lets see what others say.

 

[agdavismv]

I said assume because it would take way more time than I have to explain why she can achieve those grades.

need more info. what is her timeline? how many credits does she have and how many is she planning on taking? what does she have planned for ECs? Volunteering? Research?

you need to understand regardless though that you guys are planning on her applying and getting accepted to some of the nations most competitive schools and she is starting with a horrible GPA. you tell us to assume she can make a 3.8 and she currently has a 2.75 in nonscience and sciences are notoriously much harder? I am sorry but maybe you need to assume she can't, in which, the CA schools are out of the question.

the biggest problem is if she does well, and she builds an application that could be worthy of medical school, you are limiting her to schools that will have applicants with 3.9 GPAs, 37 MCATs, years of research, years of volunteering, years of leadership, years of shadowing, etc. etc. you guys are facing a very long and very uphill battle.

but who am i. lets see what others say.

 

[aSagacious]

Ok, let's play with the numbers for a second.

The average acceptee (at the average med school, I won't consider the UC schools for a moment) has a 31 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA (+- 0.2).

I'll assume that your wife has accumulated 120 credits for a 2.75 GPA. If she takes one more year (30 credits) of classes, she'll end up with a 2.96, or two years (60 credits) a 3.1 GPA. In either case, her GPA will be a far cry from competitive at most med schools, let alone the UCs.

A much more realistic scenario, if time and money are of no immediate concern, is for her to go back to school for two years, acquire another bachelors with a 3.8+ to boost her GPA, and then complete an SMP with strong linkage to its parent medical school (see this forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71).

So, moral of the story:
She will likely not be accepted to a school after another one or two year stint for a bachelors, however if she has the grit to complete another three years of essentially undergraduate coursework (all before entering 7 more years of school) then she can realistically find her way into a program.

 

[agdavismv]

Thanks for the response.

Time is not an issue. So if she got the bachelors and did well, took the MCAT and did well, and did the SMP and did well, would she be a very competitive applicant?

On what logic is your analysis based?

Thanks.

Ok, let's play with the numbers for a second.

The average acceptee (at the average med school, I won't consider the UC schools for a moment) has a 31 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA (+- 0.2).

I'll assume that your wife has accumulated 120 credits for a 2.75 GPA. If she takes one more year (30 credits) of classes, she'll end up with a 2.96, or two years (60 credits) a 3.1 GPA. In either case, her GPA will be a far cry from competitive at most med schools, let alone the UCs.

A much more realistic scenario, if time and money are of no immediate concern, is for her to go back to school for two years, acquire another bachelors with a 3.8+ to boost her GPA, and then complete an SMP with strong linkage to its parent medical school (see this forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71).

So, moral of the story:
She will likely not be accepted to a school after another one or two year stint for a bachelors, however if she has the grit to complete another three years of essentially undergraduate coursework (all before entering 7 more years of school) then she can realistically find her way into a program.

 

[aSagacious]

So if she got the bachelors and did well, took the MCAT and did well, and did the SMP and did well, would she be a very competitive applicant? On what logic is your analysis based?

Yes, while I will not guarantee her admission, she will have pretty good odds at a fair number of schools (though the UC schools might still be a stretch, though I encourage her to apply anyway).

As she stands after only the two year bachelor's, even if she blows the MCAT out of the water (35+), she'd still be a coin flip at best to gain admission to a program.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart approximates an applicants chances of gaining at least one acceptance in a given cycle (keeping in mind that the average applicant applies to ~14 schools).

SMPs and similar programs are designed for applicants with weak GPAs (but the rest of their applications are decent) to 'try out' for a medical school by taking medical school classes. A frequent incentive offered by SMPs is a guaranteed acceptance or interview if the student achieves X MCAT and X.X GPA while in the program.

 

[agdavismv]

That makes sense. Do you know of a current list of SMPs that have agreements with medical schools that guarantee acceptance if the GPA/MCAT are attained during the SMP?

Yes, while I will not guarantee her admission, she will have pretty good odds at a fair number of schools (though the UC schools might still be a stretch, though I encourage her to apply anyway).

As she stands after only the two year bachelor's, even if she blows the MCAT out of the water (35+), she'd still be a coin flip at best to gain admission to a program.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart approximates an applicants chances of gaining at least one acceptance in a given cycle (keeping in mind that the average applicant applies to ~14 schools).

SMPs and similar programs are designed for applicants with weak GPAs (but the rest of their applications are decent) to 'try out' for a medical school by taking medical school classes. A frequent incentive offered by SMPs is a guaranteed acceptance or interview if the student achieves X MCAT and X.X GPA while in the program.

 

[aSagacious]

That makes sense. Do you know of a current list of SMPs that have agreements with medical schools that guarantee acceptance if the GPA/MCAT are attained during the SMP?

Again it is important to remember that they are conditional acceptances (so only a small portion of their students actually link), but a few off the top of my head:

-Temple
-Georgetown
-UMDNJ
-Drexel
-U of Miami
-UConn

(I suggest poking your head into the post-bac subforum linked above and taking a look at the 'SMP ratings' thread, as well as school-specific threads)