Second look interview

[maverick_pkg]

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Looked but could not find a similar thread so asking here....

What is the advantage of a second look interview after the first one? Interviewing for both academic and private in vascular surgery

The places I interviewed first time have essentially offered a job. Now they asked me to visit for a second look. I don't understand what advantage it will give me as my questions have essentially been answered. Is it a protocol thing? Do the hospitals typically look at something? Do the contract negotiations take place during the second look?

Thanks in advance

 

[SLUser11]

Looked but could not find a similar thread so asking here....

What is the advantage of a second look interview after the first one? Interviewing for both academic and private in vascular surgery

The places I interviewed first time have essentially offered a job. Now they asked me to visit for a second look. I don't understand what advantage it will give me as my questions have essentially been answered. Is it a protocol thing? Do the hospitals typically look at something? Do the contract negotiations take place during the second look?

Thanks in advance

Second looks are essential. You are contemplating transferring your life to a new location and building a practice in this new environment, so you need to have a look around now that you know more. Honestly, if all of your questions have been answered in one trip, you are not thinking of all the necessary questions.

Contract negotiations also occur. Often, they will show you around the city and possibly hook you up with a realtor. You should go out to eat with your potential new partners and get to know them. You should have a look at hospitals, ORs, etc, and talk about the special equipment you would need, and how they are going to get you that special equipment. You should tour the clinic and see if they have what you need. You may have skimmed the surface during the first visit, but now it's time to dive deep.

Don't do a second look if you're not interested, though, as they will assume this means you are close to signing a contract.

I've said this before, but it's also important to remember that you are not auditioning for them....they are auditioning for you.

 

[maxheadroom]

Second looks are essential. You are contemplating transferring your life to a new location and building a practice in this new environment, so you need to have a look around now that you know more. Honestly, if all of your questions have been answered in one trip, you are not thinking of all the necessary questions.

Contract negotiations also occur. Often, they will show you around the city and possibly hook you up with a realtor. You should go out to eat with your potential new partners and get to know them. You should have a look at hospitals, ORs, etc, and talk about the special equipment you would need, and how they are going to get you that special equipment. You should tour the clinic and see if they have what you need. You may have skimmed the surface during the first visit, but now it's time to dive deep.

Don't do a second look if you're not interested, though, as they will assume this means you are close to signing a contract.

I've said this before, but it's also important to remember that you are not auditioning for them....they are auditioning for you.

Yep. Listen to SLUser.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Eh, I personally think second looks are a waste of time. They're basically just you fulfilling a protocol (one place, for example, said that they required a second look visit before they'd give anyone a contract). I agree that it's important to find out everything you can about a place, but a second look is not imperative for that. On my first look, I'd be literally talking every minute, asking questions about any and everything. It's not true that you can't find out everything on the first look. For example, during my first look at a place, I ferretted out the fact that the position I was interviewing for was a bait and switch. (I have an edge on some people because I've been burned before by a job and therefore I know the questions to ask and don't care about offending people. I've learned that if you ask a question and people won't hire you because of asking, then you're better off not having gone there. I also know how people try to hide the truth by omission, so I just drill into them until I get an answer.) My first interview days are exhausting and long. A lot of this is specific to me, since I'm a general surgeon and you have to be somewhat suspicious of a general surgery job in a large city these days. I'm not so sure that's the case for vascular.

 

[SLUser11]

For example, during my first look at a place, I ferretted out the fact that the position I was interviewing for was a bait and switch. (I have an edge on some people because I've been burned before by a job and therefore I know the questions to ask and don't care about offending people.

Without going into specifics that would betray your identity, please share with us what you mean by a "bait and switch," and how you specifically got burned in the past. If you have time, listing some important questions to ask would also be helpful. It would be nice if your input and experience stops people in the future from having to learn the hard way.

p.s. I am not a fan of the new SDN format.....

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Without going into specifics that would betray your identity, please share with us what you mean by a "bait and switch," and how you specifically got burned in the past. If you have time, listing some important questions to ask would also be helpful. It would be nice if your input and experience stops people in the future from having to learn the hard way.

p.s. I am not a fan of the new SDN format.....

I'm on the fence about that. The reason is because I'm sort of bitter about it and nobody really helped me out when I went looking for jobs. (Sorry, but that's just being honest, even if it sounds selfish.) Also, it's irritating to be "Mr. Index Case" of "how I got a crappy job" when everyone else is posting on here about how they graduated from Stanford, did a fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic, and now have a perfect, high-paying job.

 

[maverick_pkg]

thanks a lot for your input guys. I did ask a LOT of questions during my first interview but will heed SLUSER's advice and go for the second look to at least one place to see what its like.

 

[Winged Scapula]

p.s. I am not a fan of the new SDN format.....

Its in evolution. I'm not sure I'm a fan either but it goes way beyond cosmesis and will provide more power to the 400,000 SDN members.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm on the fence about that. The reason is because I'm sort of bitter about it and nobody really helped me out when I went looking for jobs. (Sorry, but that's just being honest, even if it sounds selfish.) Also, it's irritating to be "Mr. Index Case" of "how I got a crappy job" when everyone else is posting on here about how they graduated from Stanford, did a fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic, and now have a perfect, high-paying job.

Not everyone here suffers from the "SDN Pre-Med Complex".

There are others of us who had very little help, or at least accurate help, about job hunting and employment contracts. They just don't routinely teach that in residency and fellowship. Many of us had to figure it out on our own.

Sharing your experience would be helpful, if you can get to that point. While my current position worked out for me, I used a combination of legal counsel, references, discussion with friends and potential co-workers, books, and a "gut feeling". I and my partner were open with each other and touched based often to discuss conflicts or potential ones. If I felt taken advantage of, I spoke up; she did the same. We made plenty of mistakes along the way but I would have never picked a potential career (not just a job) without a second look/interview. As a (now) employer, I would also never offer a position (all partnership tracks in our group) without a second interview/visit as well.

 

[Smurfette]

To put things in perspective, I had a second look experience that proved very enlightening despite the numerous conversations I'd had back and forth with my potential partner that made everything sound ideal. The second trip back there (which was to finalize contracts, etc.) resulting in me bailing out as there were multiple things that really concerned me. Totally took me back to square one in the job search, but thankfully I did not get contractually bound to something I would have almost immediately regretted.

I had ZERO counseling in residency on what to expect when job hunting . Thankfully I had friends in other fields who had been through it and in practice a year or two and could tell me some generic things to look for as far as contracts, etc.

 

[maxheadroom]

1. I did second looks at the three "finalist" jobs that I was considering. The second look made me decide against one job and helped me make the choice between the remaining two.

2. On the second looks, I had much more opportunity to review employment contracts and ask detailed questions. Having multiple offers to compare (and a good physician employment attorney) made it easier to make a decision.

3. It was good to visit the different towns again. Unlike residency/fellowship, in which the town meant very little to me, the decision about where I went for a real-life job was tremendously important. While I can be happy in lots of different places, it's good to know more about where you're going.