sedation

[EDRN]

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Hi all,...not a vet or even a vet med student,...
I'm an ER nurse, who happens to love her pets,.so I'm hoping you might educate me a bit,...is it ever okay to sedate a pet for grooming? How much risk is there to the pet?
As a nurse I have seen the rare bad outcome of sedation,. and I even get angry when parents bring their 2 yr old in who fell off the sofa "he was unconscious for almost 10 min and I think he had a seizure"...kid seems fine,.not even a bump,..but you gotta CT this kids head,.which of course most of the time, means sedating the little tot,...this means longer stays in the ER,.fairly one on one nursing care and a huge ER bill,..and a real risk to some kids,,,.when 99.9% of the time I'm sure this child did not fall 18inches onto the carpet and lose consciousness!!,...sorry for the rant,....
I do understand that sedation can be a dangerous thing,..but after politely being asked not to bring my pet back to several groomers "unless you knock her out first", and trying everything I can possibly come up with to make this less stressful for my otherwise very mellow, very loving dog,..what do I do? Is my vet going to shake his head at me like I'm crazy if I request this? She is a maltese mix and must be groomed,..is there a "safe" way to do it?
Thanks for your time everyone,...

 

[Bill59]

As with everything else, it's risk vs. benefit. In your patients it's the risk of sedation compared to the benefit of picking up a subdural that needs treatment.

For grooming dogs it's the risk of the sedation compared to the benefit of avoiding the stress, risk of physical restraint, and someone getting bit. Accurate assessment of the specific risk and benefit will vary with the individual patient -- young healthy dog or older dog with heart disease; a little snappy when scared or tasmanian devil, and so on. So nobody here is going to be able to tell you what's best in your circumstance.

I will say this though, if a dog needs sedation for grooming I would have this done at a veterinary clinic that does grooming, not at a groomer. Before sedation, any dog should have a medical history and examination, and in some cases ancillary tests to assess risk of sedation. Also if there is a problem during the sedation, I would rather have my dog at a vet. hospital where they would be more likely be able to deal with it effectively.

 

[EDRN]

Thank you for your response Bill. I kinda figured I'd get the whole "we can't give out medical advice,.." line,...which I do understand. So, I need a vet who grooms or has a groomer,.think mine does. I am assuming that this will be "conscious sedation",.ie not general anesthesia, intubation etc? Sorry if this sounds ignorant,.I only have my human medical experiences to fall back on here!! 😀 Will still spend time contemplating this,..I'm thinking she needs grooming at least every other month,.that's 6X yr,.she is only 4 so if she lives another 10 years,.60 conscious sedation's just to keep her hair from matting up,(which causes her skin to break down),and to keep her toenails from curling into her foot pads. Very scary when I look at it like that.....Wow...my dachshunds aren't near this much trouble!!!
Thanks again!!!

 

[sofficat]

i would definitely get it done at a vet, even if she doesn't look as pretty. also, you might be surprised- the vet and staff may be able to groom without any sedation. I have seen it many times that people come in for a nail trim or sanitary cut because their groomer doesn't want to do it without sedation and the pets are fine with us. Sometimes the pets are angels and it makes me wonder why the groomers had such a hard time. 😕
also, talk with your vet about the different types of sedations and the severity of your wiggly/snappy pup. your vet should be able to come up with the best and safest solution for your dog. good luck!

 

[VAgirl]

You could also try doing the grooming yourself at home. It depends on what you need done, I suppose, but I've successfully shaved a cat with just a pair of groomers clippers and the help of my brother to restrain. Pretty much what they do at some groomers. I suppose it wasn't the prettiest shaving ever, but it accomplished our goal. Sometimes pets are more relaxed at home and with you handling them (though you'd likely need a helper).

We also went this route to clip our lab's nails. He was very high stress and they couldn't do it at the vet's without sedating him. But I could do it at home with just one of my parents helping. He trusted us more. It also helped, of course, that I'd worked at a vet clinic and had clipped many many nails in the past (his were totally black...the worst!). But often your vet can show you how to do some of these things and then you can take it from there at home if you're comfortable.

 

[Bill59]

Most dogs that get groomed 6X year get used to it. The bad ones tend to be the ones that rarely get groomed, so they're scared plus the mats are so bad it takes a lot to get them out. So like others said, you may not have to give up just yet.

But regarding sedation, the specific protocol varies depending on the dog and situation. If you just need to take the edge off, an injectable sedative/tranquilizer might be fine (some of these are reversible). In others that need a lot more, it's usually safer for everybody, including the patient, for the dog to go to sleep, including intubation, IV, oxygen, etc.

Your veterinarian will be able to talk to about all this to help you decide what to do.

 

[Poke]

You could also try doing the grooming yourself at home. It depends on what you need done, I suppose, but I've successfully shaved a cat with just a pair of groomers clippers and the help of my brother to restrain. Pretty much what they do at some groomers. I suppose it wasn't the prettiest shaving ever, but it accomplished our goal. Sometimes pets are more relaxed at home and with you handling them (though you'd likely need a helper).

We also went this route to clip our lab's nails. He was very high stress and they couldn't do it at the vet's without sedating him. But I could do it at home with just one of my parents helping. He trusted us more. It also helped, of course, that I'd worked at a vet clinic and had clipped many many nails in the past (his were totally black...the worst!). But often your vet can show you how to do some of these things and then you can take it from there at home if you're comfortable.

At the clinic where I work, we avoid recommending grooming at home (at least for cats). Nail trims -- great!, go for it Shaving and clipping? I think that's best left to someone with experience. We've seen too many cats be cut by an owner with the best intentions, and there's the occasional burn with the clippers.

Just my opinion/experience, though.

 

[Electrophile]

Maybe it's because I lean more into the behavior aspect, but I would think it would be more beneficial to get at why the dog is so stressed by the grooming. I would try a pretty hardcore desensitization regime where I would have the clippers on in the background while he's eating, making it very rewards based. I also would also have someone teach you how to do it at home. Start with just a little bit at a time, perhaps using a clicker or other marker every time you get near him with the clipper. Or have him VERY hungry and work on a stuffed Kong while you do a little bit. Just clip a little bit every day over the course of several weeks will likely do wonders.

Part of the problem is many groomers and vet techs (and a lot of vets, for that matter!) are mostly women who love to talk in high excitable "kissy" voices to the dog. That kind of approach can be totally counterproductive and a good way to get bitten. Straightforward, gentle but firm is the way to go.

 

[VAgirl]

Part of the problem is many groomers and vet techs (and a lot of vets, for that matter!) are mostly women who love to talk in high excitable "kissy" voices to the dog.

I can't be the only one to find that offensive. Electrophile, I think there's probably a way to make your point (which, I'm assuming, is that people often approach animals in ways unlikely to soothe them, complicating stress issues) without making it a problem caused by women.

 

[JerseyisCutest]

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[Beagingese]

Part of the problem is many groomers and vet techs (and a lot of vets, for that matter!) are mostly women who love to talk in high excitable "kissy" voices to the dog. That kind of approach can be totally counterproductive and a good way to get bitten. Straightforward, gentle but firm is the way to go.

Yea, I find this a tad offensive and insensitive as well. For one thing, I'm glad my voice is naturally higher pitched- it means I'm not a man and no one's going to confuse me for one!

And I have often, often corrected owners in the exam rooms for talking to their dogs in an affirming manner ("it's ok, just be good" etc) while the animal's just being a ridiculous putz.

I'd love to just flip things around and say, in a profession that used to be entirely male, where have all the men gone? If the women are reinforcing ill-behaviors simply for being the way we are (nurturing, etc....face it, women do have a more difficult time turning that tendency off, and I for one am glad for that too, again, it means I'm a woman and not a man!), where are all the men to fix the problem?

 

[julieDVM]

Yea, I find this a tad offensive and insensitive as well. For one thing, I'm my voice is naturally higher pitched- it means I'm not a man and no one's going to confuse me for one!

And I have often, often corrected owners in the exam rooms for talking to their dogs in an affirming manner ("it's ok, just be good" etc) while the animal's just being a ridiculous putz.

I'd love to just flip things around and say, in a profession that used to be entirely male, where have all the men gone? If the women are reinforcing ill-behaviors simply for being the way we are (nurturing, etc....face it, women do have a more difficult time turning that tendency off, and I for one am glad for that too, again, it means I'm a woman and not a man!), where are all the men to fix the problem?

give me a break. sometimes we (women) are a little too sensitive.

 

[JerseyisCutest]

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[VAgirl]

give me a break. sometimes we (women) are a little too sensitive.

Sometimes everyone is a little too sensitive. I still feel that the comment was unnecessary and somewhat offensive.

 

[Electrophile]

That type of behavior to a dog that is acting up is baaaaad......we use that same voice to praise our dogs so when you use that to a dog that's flipping out and acting nutty, you're only making things worse because you're putting it in their heads that behavior is okay. They don't understand what "it's okay they are trying to help you" means.

Yes, precisely! LOL, I'm a woman myself, just FYI. But it's absolutely true. I've never ever seen a single male vet or vet tech or whatever going "ooooooh, what a GOOOOOOOD PUPPY! Oooooh, how cuuuuuute!" I've had many years of experience with iffy shelter animals and several years of fostering shelter/rescue animals paired with being a behaviorist for a number of years. I'll tell all you future vets this right now. Speaking in that sort of voice is a great way to get bit. Offended? Well, darn, but don't say I didn't tell you so when you have to go to the human ER for stitches. I also will not allow my future vet techs or receptionists to do it either as it's a liability. (if ya'll can't tell by the nutrition threads, I'm not one for minding delicate sensibilities...)

 

[dyachei]

Yes, precisely! LOL, I'm a woman myself, just FYI. But it's absolutely true. I've never ever seen a single male vet or vet tech or whatever going "ooooooh, what a GOOOOOOOD PUPPY! Oooooh, how cuuuuuute!"

I've heard several myself, vets and vet techs. While I don't think the "baby talk" voice helps, its certainly not as gender-biased as people are implying.

 

[EDRN]

Thanks so much everyone!! I'm very uncomfortable with having my baby sedated over and over,....MY plan is,.sedate her once,.get her cut down short,.then even if it kills us,.we will all brush her daily (even just for a minute),.she may have to start sleeping with the clippers!! We have to find something that works,.surely she will get used to it if we all make grooming her part of what goes on daily. Might have to hold the running clippers while feeding her,.brush her while she eats,..I've even contemplated letting her in the tub with me!!!
Thanks again everyone!!!