Seeking Some Advice and perhaps "Tough Love"

[RadHopeful]

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I'm a 4th year DO student who realized pretty late that radiology was what I wanted to do. While the money and lifestyle are appealing, I just found myself totally enthralled and fascinated during my elective. I was actually very happy and excited about going to the hospital everyday. I enjoyed looking at the studies and trying to correlate it to the history that was presented. I actively read on everything that I saw and tried to increase my knowledge base further by actually reading when I went home. I enjoyed my interaction with the faculty and residents. In short, I think I've found something that I could see myself being very happy with doing 20-30 years down the road.

My dilemma is the following:

1) I am a osteopathic medical student
2) I am an average student who is roughly in the middle of my class
3) I performed average in the COMLEX and did not take the USMLE
3) It is time to apply and I've only done 1 radiology elective thus far
4) During 3rd year I received all passes and only a couple of high honors
5) No research and no real honors or awards to speak of

Is it possible to match into a lowest tier allopathic radiology program? Is it even possible to match into any of the DO rad programs?

I'd like some honest advice please

thanks.

 

[RadHopeful]

over 100 views and not one reply??

 

[oldandtired]

What do you want to hear?

There are plenty of average osteopathic students in allopathic radiology residencies and you have a fantastic chance of matching?

No, common, realistically you know that your chances are small. You better think of a backup. Apply and see what happens!

 

[RadHopeful]

What do you want to hear?

There are plenty of average osteopathic students in allopathic radiology residencies and you have a fantastic chance of matching?

No, common, realistically you know that your chances are small. You better think of a backup. Apply and see what happens!

That's what I figured. However, I'm not giving up that easily. Eventually, I'll get it, provided I want it bad enough. I do have a back up plan. I was hoping some of the people that have done it before without the stellar resume could tell me how they matched successfully. I've read Dr. Cuts' threads extensively. He gives me some hope that it can be done

 

[ears]

Nothing that you've mentioned rules you out for anything. But every resident a program takes on is something of a risk---if they don't work out, it's a big problem for the other residents and attendings in the program. So what a selection committee looks for are candidates whose CV suggests they'll be able to perform at a high level.

A bunch of the items are taken to be evidence in a candidate's favor, like the ones you've mentioned above: high class rank, USMLE scores, clinical grades, research, etc. We can argue ad nauseum about whether these actually predict performance, but those are the common ways of assuring a selection committee that you are a good bet.

You've suggested that you have none of those things. And in addition, at allopathic programs, you have the osteopathic strike against you. So, if you want to get into a radiology program, you have to convince someone to take a chance on you, which is especially difficult in the current climate when there are so many candidates who appear safer by conventional standards.

So here's the challenge for you: you need to find someone to stand up at a selection committee meeting and say, "Look, I know RadHopeful doesn't look great on paper, but I just know he's going to be a great radiologist." That's probably going to require a lot of legwork on your part. You might pick a lower-ranked program, and try to do one (or more) rotations there, and try to do a research project there as well. Really get close to a member of their program's selection committee. And even if you succeed at finding that person, it might not get you in; radiology is that competitive right now.

Perhaps you could market yourself based on an incredible hunger for getting into radiology, that it's a field you're really passionate about. One problem with that is, lots of people who may be less sincere than you are also talking a great game about their long-standing chest x-ray fetishes.

Probably the best thing for you to do right now is to find someone who can look over your whole picture and help you put together a strategy for getting into radiology. It's probably going to be a tough road for you. I wish you luck.

 

[DrDre']

I have to commend Ears for the above post. It was refreshing to read an honest, cogent and non-inflammatory response. I think it provides Radhopeful with some valuable advice without offering false hope.


Good luck Radhopeful!

 

[RadHopeful]

I have to commend Ears for the above post. It was refreshing to read an honest, cogent and non-inflammatory response. I think it provides Radhopeful with some valuable advice without offering false hope.


Good luck Radhopeful!

thanks Dre...I fully understand that I am facing an uphill battle...well see what happens

 

[Heeed!]

thanks Dre...I fully understand that I am facing an uphill battle...well see what happens

You are planning on applying to all 11 DO rads residencies, aren't you?

 

[RadHopeful]

You are planning on applying to all 11 DO rads residencies, aren't you?

Actually, no I am not. Due to family considerations I cannot. I will be applying to most of the lowest tier allopathic and osteopathic programs that are in geographic proximity to me and my wife

 

[RadHopeful]

Hi RadHopeful,

Man I feel for you... I really do. And the reason I haven't added to this discussion much till this point is b/c it seemed to me like you were doing all the right things anyway... until now. As a relatively non-competitive grad going for an ultra-competitive field... beggers can't be choosers. I wanted Rads bad and I took the shotgun approach and applied all over... and I was fortunate enough to match... maybe not at the best program or in the best city but it's still Rads. Sorry to say this but IMHO you are severely limiting your chances for matching by restricting where and to which programs you apply. You may have your reasons to do this but you should know that it could cost you a successful Rads match.

You see even in a very competitive field there are still very undesirable programs... for example one of the places I interviewed at was Beth Israel in Newark. On the way to my interview about 2 blocks from the hospital I saw a big bust with multiple cop cars and like 10 guys spread eagle along a police van... and this was at 8 in the morning! Now I will be the first to admit that I wasn't exactly ecstatic at the prospect of spending 4 years at a place like that, but I ranked them (albeit low) b/c I wanted to train in Radiology. Period. And I was willing to sacrifice anything to do that.

My point is that there are relatively non-competitive Rads programs out there. If you are at all flexible about where you go, I would highly recommend you apply to all community programs and U programs in undesirable locations. If you can't do this and have to be particular about geography, then IMHO your chances for matching will be much lower. It's unfortunate but that's life.

I hope this helps in some way. Good luck to you!

Thanks bud...I'm going to have a talk with the wife...it seems she wants to stay in the metro/cosmo type cities...However, if she is willing to put up with temporary inconvenience for the short term...I think it would benefit us both...you're definitely right...I'm a begger and I'm not in a position to be choosey

 

[carrigallen]

Good to see the replies of Dr. Cuts and ears , these are the kind of helpful posts that make the forums worth reading. Good luck RadHopeful!

 

[RadHopeful]

Good to see the replies of Dr. Cuts and ears , these are the kind of helpful posts that make the forums worth reading. Good luck RadHopeful!

I agree...nonetheless, I am prepared to handle the possibility of not matching this time around...I'll just try again next year 👍

 

[magicman]

I agree with what has been said about your chances. Realistically, they are small because you have not yet given a program any reason to take you. In today's climate, there are plenty of applicants from Allopathic medical schools who have high scores with the same genuine interest in radiology. In fact, there are more of those students than there are spots, from what I gather. So it will be an uphill battle all the way.

Cuts, from what I've read, did go to a Caribbean medical school, but I think I remember he did extremely well on Steps 1 and 2, and may have rotated in more than one rads residency. He also had anesthesia backup and applied to I believe every radiology program.

Looking at what you've written: I hope the high honors are in medicine and surgery, because third year grades do count some. So do the evaluations that appear on the Dean's Letter.

Three things that can maximize your chances: rotate at a couple of hospitals, impress the hell out of them. Come early, stay late, don't ask annoying questions, etc. DO RESEARCH. Maybe I'm a little resentful (I didn't do any, but the people I know who did matched above their scores/letters), but it seems to me that that's a way programs use to bump people up lists significantly. They have more than enough high scoring applicants to choose from, but many want the prestige and potential funding that research oriented residents cna give them. Also, take the USMLES and roast them. I really think with passes in your third year that you'll need 240+ on both steps (just memorize First Aid for Step 1).

Honestly, it will be uphill because there are so many qualified candidates from allopathic medical schools.