Seeking Students with Standards

[WindyCityOD]

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I'm a practicing OD in the Chicago area, and I have two opthalmic techs who are applying to schools for 2012. They showed me this forum because they wanted my input about which schools to apply to, besides the obvious ICO due to location. Call me old-fashioned 🙂 but some of the posts here give me reason for concern about the morals and ethics of current optometry students. Complaints about failure rates (do you want ill-prepared optometrists as your colleagues?) and trying to "just get by...." (how would you sleep at night knowing you might have missed something on a patient?) --- it wasn't like that when I was in school. I don't want this to be a rant against people with different opinions than mine, but I'd like to hear from students who DO have high standards for themselves and their colleagues to make sure there still are some of you out there! My two future colleagues want to work hard and learn as much as they can, and it would be great to know where students are that share those values. Any input welcomed!🙂

 

[Taven7755]

I'm a practicing OD in the Chicago area, and I have two opthalmic techs who are applying to schools for 2012. They showed me this forum because they wanted my input about which schools to apply to, besides the obvious ICO due to location. Call me old-fashioned 🙂 but some of the posts here give me reason for concern about the morals and ethics of current optometry students. Complaints about failure rates (do you want ill-prepared optometrists as your colleagues?) and trying to "just get by...." (how would you sleep at night knowing you might have missed something on a patient?) --- it wasn't like that when I was in school. I don't want this to be a rant against people with different opinions than mine, but I'd like to hear from students who DO have high standards for themselves and their colleagues to make sure there still are some of you out there! My two future colleagues want to work hard and learn as much as they can, and it would be great to know where students are that share those values. Any input welcomed!🙂

I understand very much the concerns that you have, and as a current student, I can say very unequivocally that SDN and the posters it attracts are not representative of the people I know at school. If anything, I would put as one of my most positive influences as some of the people I have met through school and the mentality that they have. I had never met so many people that would stop at nothing in their preparation, show such patience and empathy in the clinics, etc.

There ARE indeed, as in a lot of medicine and law, too many people that go into it because they are confused and it sounds like a reasonable next step. They are unsure of what they want, how they qualify, etc, and this draws them to SDN in order to get some answers. At no point should this be misconstrued as your "average op school student", just as many docs on here are not your average experience. In general, people go to any online forum to either 1) complain and jade others, thus rationalizing their insecurity 2)bring others to what is generally a more negative view of profession ________

This one is no different. There are a lot of op students that are doing what they wanted to do years ago, going toward something they feel passionate about. Otherwise, it is very difficult to get through the academic hazing that is op school JUST to "get by". Hope this helps....

 

[Commando303]

Call me old-fashioned 🙂 but some of the posts here give me reason for concern about the morals and ethics of current optometry students. Complaints about failure rates (do you want ill-prepared optometrists as your colleagues?) and trying to "just get by...." (how would you sleep at night knowing you might have missed something on a patient?) --- it wasn't like that when I was in school

I'm not sure what you're hoping to hear, here ("I have high morals — !"), but how can you say the atmosphere of student-sentiment was different when you were in school from how you perceive it to be, reading posts on the Internet? You said you just found out about this Web site, recently, and, correct me if I'm wrong, I imagine you weren't acquainted with any such sites, while in O.D. college. The feelings echoed on the Internet do not often convey those expressed in person, and vice versa.

 

[DawgOD]

No matter what career, job, profession, there will always be those who overachieve, and those who underachieve... nothing new.

 

[nc2tarheels]

this board is only a small window in. People can hide behind a computer and ask all types of questions. Anyway, here's my dilemma.....
-I have already been accepted to an opto school
-I went to my 2nd interview yesterday and found out that the school gives half day fridays. The students only go until about 11am on Fridays. This shocked me.
-Right away, I knew I didn't want to go there and will attend the school that I have heard is more rigorous and brutal. Mainly, because I want to be a great doctor.

 

[jc328]

this board is only a small window in. People can hide behind a computer and ask all types of questions. Anyway, here's my dilemma.....
-I have already been accepted to an opto school
-I went to my 2nd interview yesterday and found out that the school gives half day fridays. The students only go until about 11am on Fridays. This shocked me.
-Right away, I knew I didn't want to go there and will attend the school that I have heard is more rigorous and brutal. Mainly, because I want to be a great doctor.

Here at PCO, we get half-day off in the middle of the week due to lab or clinic schedule. Our Friday classes usually end a bit earlier and monday classes usually starts a bit later, but that does not mean we are getting less education here. Once you entered optometry school you will realize that the "off-time" (including weekends) is usually being used for study or practice techniques. From my personal experience, most stuff I learned are from the after class studying rather in the lecture because the materials covered in classes are more than what you can absorb in one session. I'd appreciate that afternoon off so I can get some errands done and get more self-studying time.

 

[nc2tarheels]

Here at PCO, we get half-day off in the middle of the week due to lab or clinic schedule. Our Friday classes usually end a bit earlier and monday classes usually starts a bit later, but that does not mean we are getting less education here. Once you entered optometry school you will realize that the "off-time" (including weekends) is usually being used for study or practice techniques. From my personal experience, most stuff I learned are from the after class studying rather in the lecture because the materials covered in classes are more than what you can absorb in one session. I'd appreciate that afternoon off so I can get some errands done and get more self-studying time.

That's great, but the reason given for their half days was so students had a chance to handle things that a normal person would be able to handle during a 9-5 schedule (banking etc).

 

[socal2014]

Why have standards when most OD's work next to the recycling department in Walmart?

 

[Veritas23]

this board is only a small window in. People can hide behind a computer and ask all types of questions. Anyway, here's my dilemma.....
-I have already been accepted to an opto school
-I went to my 2nd interview yesterday and found out that the school gives half day fridays. The students only go until about 11am on Fridays. This shocked me.
-Right away, I knew I didn't want to go there and will attend the school that I have heard is more rigorous and brutal. Mainly, because I want to be a great doctor.

So you're picking your school based on how many hours you'd spend in lecture per day? Personally I think clinical skills and application of concepts you've learned in lectures is probably the most important aspect of a program. That's what you're going to be doing once you obtain your O.D. degree right?

At NECO they can watch the lecture from the lunch-room on a big-screen TV instead of going to lecture, (or just not go at all wherever you go...). I know a lot of MD students that were friends of mine who actually don't go to lecture sometimes because they are busy studying and learning the material/clinical skills on their own time, and learn better that way.

You have to choose what set-up you think is going to help you learn best to become an expert health-care provider and clinician. If you are more of a 'listen-and-learn' kind of student who enjoys many hours in lecture then maybe a program with a few less hours of lecture is not for you after all.

Being said, I don't think that this (a 3 - 4 hour difference per week) is going to change whether you're going to become a "great doctor" or not. Different people learn in different ways though so definitely go with the program you think you can learn the most and be able to apply that knowledge in a clinical setting.

- My two cents.

p.s. PCO has an extended externship program during your third/fourth year which requires some front-loaded coursework compared to other programs in order to fit it in. Every school does it differently and is unique in their own ways so you have to find what you think will work for you. Best of luck in your decision-making!

 

[nc2tarheels]

i'm talking about the first 1-2 years. The school itself, seems VERY VERY slack. The school I am choosing seems brutal. That's my point.

 

[Veritas23]

Why have standards when most OD's work next to the recycling department in Walmart?

I'm still dying to know your level of expertise, Socal2014.

"Socal2014" probably means you attend your undergraduate institution in Southern California and your class year is 2014. This makes you most likely a first-year student. Needless to say this is just speculation but I'm not sure people on these boards are looking for advice from even people who are about to enter Optometry school such as myself.

They are looking for expert opinions from actual students of Optometry and practicing Optometrists.

As much as I don't support OD's working at WalMart, I think the job they do there and the service they provide there is monumental compared to the "service" you provide others here on these boards with your flagrantly unhelpful responses to posts.

 

[Veritas23]

i'm talking about the first 1-2 years. The school itself, seems VERY VERY slack. The school I am choosing seems brutal. That's my point.

Did you get this vibe from your tour-guides or just on the whole? I'm interested to hear where you decide to attend instead of PCO, from an un-biased standpoint.

I had multiple options in my selection of where to attend school and I chose PCO because of location, fabulous clinical experience, longer externships (with front-loaded coursework), and the fantastic doctors I shadowed from PCO.

On my tour at PCO there were handfuls of students whose heads were down on their books in the lunch-room where we ate. My tour-guides joked about how you could tell who the first and second-year students were because they were all the ones who looked like Zombies from being overworked in the classroom and extra hours spent practicing clinical skills - all in addition to being at TEI (clinic) multiple hours a week.

 

[nc2tarheels]

I'm still dying to know your level of expertise, Socal2014.

"Socal2014" probably means you attend your undergraduate institution in Southern California and your class year is 2014. This makes you most likely a first-year student. Needless to say this is just speculation but I'm not sure people on these boards are looking for advice from even people who are about to enter Optometry school such as myself.

They are looking for expert opinions from actual students of Optometry and practicing Optometrists.

As much as I don't support OD's working at WalMart, I think the job they do there and the service they provide there is monumental compared to the "service" you provide others here on these boards with your flagrantly unhelpful responses to posts.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=722251

Just last year socal was asking this. So I resurrected the thread. 🙂

 

[nc2tarheels]

Did you get this vibe from your tour-guides or just on the whole? I'm interested to hear where you decide to attend instead of PCO, from an un-biased standpoint.

I had multiple options in my selection of where to attend school and I chose PCO because of location, fabulous clinical experience, longer externships (with front-loaded coursework), and the fantastic doctors I shadowed from PCO.

On my tour at PCO there were handfuls of students whose heads were down on their books in the lunch-room where we ate. My tour-guides joked about how you could tell who the first and second-year students were because they were all the ones who looked like Zombies from being overworked in the classroom and extra hours spent practicing clinical skills - all in addition to being at TEI (clinic) multiple hours a week.

I'm not talking about PCO. I haven't even brought their program up.

 

[Veritas23]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=722251

Just last year socal was asking this. So I resurrected the thread. 🙂

I'm not here to start a flame-war or even poke fun at someone's lower GPA. I just don't understand why someone would try and mis-lead people with an uneducated response to honest questions about future careers... My attitude towards people who are obviously doing something for attention, or whatever reason, is to kill them with kindness - rather than try and hurt them.

It's like me going to my underclassmen here at school and telling them all the wrong classes to take for whatever major they desire to complete ... etc.

 

[Veritas23]

I'm not talking about PCO. I haven't even brought their program up.

My mistake. I interpreted the other poster's response regarding PCO as the school you were referring to as having "half-days off". Which one were you actually referring to? And where have you decided to ultimately attend instead?

 

[nc2tarheels]

My mistake. I interpreted the other poster's response regarding PCO as the school you were referring to as having "half-days off". Which one were you actually referring to? And where have you decided to ultimately attend instead?

PM sent.

 

[Commando303]

i'm talking about the first 1-2 years. The school itself, seems VERY VERY slack. The school I am choosing seems brutal. That's my point.

Which two schools are you talking about?

 

[WindyCityOD]

this board is only a small window in. People can hide behind a computer and ask all types of questions. Anyway, here's my dilemma.....
-I have already been accepted to an opto school
-I went to my 2nd interview yesterday and found out that the school gives half day fridays. The students only go until about 11am on Fridays. This shocked me.
-Right away, I knew I didn't want to go there and will attend the school that I have heard is more rigorous and brutal. Mainly, because I want to be a great doctor.

🙂 Feeling better already.

 

[WindyCityOD]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to hear, here ("I have high morals — !"), but how can you say the atmosphere of student-sentiment was different when you were in school from how you perceive it to be, reading posts on the Internet? You said you just found out about this Web site, recently, and, correct me if I'm wrong, I imagine you weren't acquainted with any such sites, while in O.D. college. The feelings echoed on the Internet do not often convey those expressed in person, and vice versa.

you're right - there wasn't even internet when I was applying to schools - at least not available to us as students. I did knee-jerk react when I was reading about failing exams and getting kicked out - didn't see anything about feeling good to have mastered a skill or identified a condition correctly in clinic. Maybe those students post to other sites, or I didn't see it yet. I love my profession and I'm kind of selfish that I want to preserve it for future generations as a profession instead of a trade. Didn't mean to offend.

 

[Commando303]

you're right - there wasn't even internet when I was applying to schools - at least not available to us as students. I did knee-jerk react when I was reading about failing exams and getting kicked out - didn't see anything about feeling good to have mastered a skill or identified a condition correctly in clinic. Maybe those students post to other sites, or I didn't see it yet. I love my profession and I'm kind of selfish that I want to preserve it for future generations as a profession instead of a trade. Didn't mean to offend.

I didn't take any offense, and I can understand your developing from a few of the recent threads in this forum, the sentiment you expressed. My point simply is, you very likely will not find anyone sharing an experience in which something he learned in pathophysiology led to an amazing and exciting find in the clinic, that very week. People say that sort of thing in person; the Internet is reserved mostly for complaining about stuff — 😎.

 

[socal2014]

I'm not here to start a flame-war or even poke fun at someone's lower GPA. I just don't understand why someone would try and mis-lead people with an uneducated response to honest questions about future careers... My attitude towards people who are obviously doing something for attention, or whatever reason, is to kill them with kindness - rather than try and hurt them.

It's like me going to my underclassmen here at school and telling them all the wrong classes to take for whatever major they desire to complete ... etc.

If you read my posts, I am not trying to hurt anyone, and I am not sure how I could via a post or two.

Sadly, I know most things about the profession, so what I say is indeed backed up by facts, experience and common sense, which I might add is lacking in some posters.

Do you really want to be going into a profession where oversaturation is the norm?

Do you really want to be working inside walmart all your life?

Do you really want to be calling your state insurance rep, asking him or here, why they only reimburse $20 for a comprehensive eye examination?

I could go on and on with these questions, but I think you get the point.

The only people who question my validity are those who no nothing about the profession itself. Like the common saying, it's not rocket science!

I would be more than happy to answer any questions pertaining to the state of Optometry in the past, present or future even.

 

[Veritas23]

.

 

[WindyCityOD]

<<quoting from veritas>>> sorry the quote box didn't work!!

"Fact of the matter is you and no army here on SDN could dissuade me from going to Optometry school next year and fulfilling the dream I worked my tail off in Undergrad to achieve. When you invent a crystal ball and can truly predict the future of anything please get back to me. My life is short as it is, and I'd rather be doing something I love - regardless of the situation it's in - until the day I die than be doing something I hate."

From your future colleague -->> I wish you all the best in school and I will be happy knowing there are people like you who will take over this profession when I retire. 🙂