Seen anyone that got COVID a 2nd time & died? If not, why not?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Birdstrike

Birdstrike

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
10,310
Reaction score
13,725
Members don't see this ad.
Several of you have mentioned seeing elderly, comorbid, vaccinated patients get breakthrough COVID and dying from it.

How many of you have had a patient with a previous history of documented COVID, who then got documented COVID again, and died, or came close?
 
Last edited:
I haven’t personally seen any die, but have admitted some to the hospital. Their first case was mild (not requiring oxygen) and this one was much worse. I was just doing admissions, so never followed up on them.
 
Four (self-reported) fully vaccinated patients died in my county two days ago, 15 total deaths. Yesterday, 3 of 11 deaths were vaccinated. The demographics and comorbidities of those patients wasn't released, but I live in a county with very poor baseline health.
 
i had a 18 year old patient whom got the JNJ vaccine in April and moderna x 1.5 shortly after (he told me he pulled his arm away after about half of the second shot went in) whom had some pretty severe complications. he is doing better now and plans to get his third shot.
 
LChristmas said:
Four (self-reported) fully vaccinated patients died in my county two days ago, 15 total deaths. Yesterday, 3 of 11 deaths were vaccinated. The demographics and comorbidities of those patients wasn't released, but I live in a county with very poor baseline health.
Click to expand...

medschool2cool said:
i had a 18 year old patient whom got the JNJ vaccine in April and moderna x 1.5 shortly after (he told me he pulled his arm away after about half of the second shot went in) whom had some pretty severe complications. he is doing better now and plans to get his third shot.
Click to expand...
Did any of those unvaccinated people who died of COVID, have a history of precious COVID infection, that they recovered from?

Unvaccinated, but previously had COVID, recovered, then got COVID again, and died?
 
Birdstrike said:
Did any of those unvaccinated people who died of COVID, have a history of precious COVID infection, that they recovered from?

Unvaccinated, but previously had COVID, recovered, then got COVID again, and died?
Click to expand...
Not sure of previous infection and don't know if the county is collecting that data right now.
 
Had someone this week die who had confirmed Covid in January. 34 y/o. Only medical problem was she was a little overweight.

Didn’t see the point in the vaccine since she already had COVID.
 
Birdstrike said:
Several of you have mentioned seeing elderly, comorbid, vaccinated patients get breakthrough COVID and dying from it.

How many of you have had a patient with a previous history of documented COVID, who then got documented COVID again, and died, or came close?
Click to expand...

Zero. I've had patients that were vaccinated and contracted symptomatic covid. I've had patients who were vaccinated and tested positive but were asymptomatic. I've not had a single case where a patient with documented immunity (a positive antibody or T-cell test) came down with symptomatic Covid, was hospitalized, or died.
 
Old_Mil said:
Zero. I've had patients that were vaccinated and contracted symptomatic covid. I've had patients who were vaccinated and tested positive but were asymptomatic. I've not had a single case where a patient with documented immunity (a positive antibody or T-cell test) came down with symptomatic Covid, was hospitalized, or died.
Click to expand...
I've had 3 cases, one of which was hospitalized and vented. One of them was a firefighter who was an anti-vaxxer, got antibodies documented from his previous COVID, and subsequently was pretty sick (but didn't require hospitalization) and is still out of work.
 
southerndoc said:
I've had 3 cases, one of which was hospitalized and vented. One of them was a firefighter who was an anti-vaxxer, got antibodies documented from his previous COVID, and subsequently was pretty sick (but didn't require hospitalization) and is still out of work.
Click to expand...
I had the one, had COVID in December very mild case, got it again in July. Fevers, body aches, recovered fine but sicker than the first time around.
 
In the “3rd wave” [winter ‘20-‘21] I had at least two patients who’d had COVID in March/April 2020 that required ICU admission and multi-day ventilation, I believe one died but they both ended up shipped to tertiary centers so my follow up may be off.

With this “4th wave” I have personally NOT yet had anyone vaccinated require hospitalization, I’ve probably hospitalized about 10 unvaccinated patients in the past couple weeks, 2 to ICUs (I believe one was intubated this AM…). I did not ask any of these people if they’d had COVID before, none mentioned it.
 
Janders said:
In the “3rd wave” [winter ‘20-‘21] I had at least two patients who’d had COVID in March/April 2020 that required ICU admission and multi-day ventilation, I believe one died but they both ended up shipped to tertiary centers so my follow up may be off.

With this “4th wave” I have personally NOT yet had anyone vaccinated require hospitalization, I’ve probably hospitalized about 10 unvaccinated patients in the past couple weeks, 2 to ICUs (I believe one was intubated this AM…). I did not ask any of these people if they’d had COVID before, none mentioned it.
Click to expand...
Our latest health system data has 92% of admissions, 97% of critical care admissions, and 97% of those requiring ventilation being unvaccinated.

The vaccine seems to be doing incredibly well at preventing severe disease. Those that are vaccinated that are getting severe COVID almost always are immunocompromised or >75 years of age.

We give out monoclonal antibodies frequently. A 20-minute infusion + 60-minute observation time beats a patient returning to the ER a week later with a 6+-hour visit and then a 2-week admission for their SARS.
 
southerndoc said:
We give out monoclonal antibodies frequently. A 20-minute infusion + 60-minute observation time beats a patient returning to the ER a week later with a 6+-hour visit and then a 2-week admission for their SARS.
Click to expand...

I do a fair amount of mAB as well.

Every time I'm consenting a patient for it I make sure to mention the efficacy and safety data for it is nowhere near as good as it is for the vaccines.
 
I haven't seen anyone vaccinated who caught Covid was even remotely sick. I have seen many unvaccinated healthy, thin, athletic people who have COVID pneumonia. I have seen about 600+ positive pts in the past 2 months
 
Old_Mil said:
Zero. I've had patients that were vaccinated and contracted symptomatic covid. I've had patients who were vaccinated and tested positive but were asymptomatic. I've not had a single case where a patient with documented immunity (a positive antibody or T-cell test) came down with symptomatic Covid, was hospitalized, or died.
Click to expand...

You're an anesthesiologist, correct?

If so, how many undifferentiated fever/cough/sob patients do you see a day?

What I'm asking is what is your exposure to patients? Do these patients need emergency procedures requiring anesthesiology? Elective procedures requiring anesthesiology?

Edit:
Of all patients you've medically been involved with who have COVID, what percentage of them were vaccinated vs not?
 
thegenius said:
You're an anesthesiologist, correct?

If so, how many undifferentiated fever/cough/sob patients do you see a day?

What I'm asking is what is your exposure to patients? Do these patients need emergency procedures requiring anesthesiology? Elective procedures requiring anesthesiology?

Edit:
Of all patients you've medically been involved with who have COVID, what percentage of them were vaccinated vs not?
Click to expand...

He's EM, amigo.
 
thegenius said:
If that's the case I'm getting him mixed up with someone else then.
Click to expand...

I'm anesthesia. There are a couple of us who read/like your forum for different perspectives on work and life. Our general experience, IMO, with COVID is both asymptomatic and super sick people coming to the OR or the L&D suite. Some of us, like @vector2, are anesthesia and take care of the super sick ones in the ICU. Regardless, we aren't seeing the undifferentiated COVID patient. Don't wanna be political (can't believe I have to type that....) but I can not in many lifetimes see how one comes to believe basic public health measures (vaccination/masking/distancing) aren't worthwhile after seeing a couple days of what you all have seen with both alpha and delta surges. But then again, I have a hard time coming to terms with 90-100% hospitalized patients being unvaccinated and half of our country still unvaccinated.
 
GeneralVeers said:
But he questions COVID and Vaccination fascism therefore his opinion should be disregarded.
Click to expand...

I think it's fair to assume that we have much to learn about covid and things we think we currently know will be proven wrong as time goes on. And we've certainly already been wrong about covid stuff -- like blood type being a risk factor. I highly doubt that will be the fate of masks or vaccines, but hey such is the beauty and frustration of science.

But can we leave hyperbolic comparisons to fascism on the sidelines? Or do you sincerely think the federal and state governments and private corporations trying to encourage the public to get vaccinated legitimately bear similarities to, you know, Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, and other actual fascists?
 
namethatsmell said:
I think it's fair to assume that we have much to learn about covid and things we think we currently know will be proven wrong as time goes on. And we've certainly already been wrong about covid stuff -- like blood type being a risk factor. I highly doubt that will be the fate of masks or vaccines, but hey such is the beauty and frustration of science.

But can we leave hyperbolic comparisons to fascism on the sidelines? Or do you sincerely think the federal and state governments and private corporations trying to encourage the public to get vaccinated legitimately bear similarities to, you know, Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, and other actual fascists?
Click to expand...

Fascism always starts small. They are doing more than "encouraging". Coercing, forcing, and threatening are the words that come to mind.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Fascism always starts small. They are doing more than "encouraging". Coercing, forcing, and threatening are the words that come to mind.
Click to expand...

So shouldn't we all be fascists by now given the previous vaccine campaigns for smallpox and polio? Or is this all part of a particularly slow ramp up to fascism?
 
GeneralVeers said:
Fascism always starts small. They are doing more than "encouraging". Coercing, forcing, and threatening are the words that come to mind.
Click to expand...
The fact that people can choose to not do business with you / hang out with you if you refuse the vaccine is the very definition of a free society. You are free to not get arrested for being unvaccinated. You are not free from our public ridicule and outcasting.
 
Everybody chill.
We're all bent out of shape over a lot of things.

Veers' point is that it is a very small step (and everyone here knows that the powers that be: admin, government, etc.; would take advantage of the situation in a heartbeat) from "mandatory vaccines every six months" to "sign this and agree to never speak negatively about anything that we ever say or do, including whistleblower suits, etc", or else you'll never work again. You shouldn't need a vaccine passport to order tacos.

To be clear: I'm pro-vax. I got my shots. But at some point you're going to have to pick a hill to die on when it comes down to letting someone else make your decisions for you. Veers is sick of American hyperreactivity and reductio ad absurdum becoming a justification for everything. So am I.

I see Old Mil's point, too.

If you're a fit, trim, young, healthy individual who has a 99.999% chance of fighting off COVID, then yeah - consider your options. The vaccine is pretty much universally available now, so everyone can make that choice. If it is less than stellar at preventing disease transmission (as it seems that we're finding out), then the false equivalence of "if you don't get vaxxed, then you're a murderer" can stop. There's a whole episode of Rick and Morty about this particular moral dilemma, and it is not only hilarious, but insightful.

If the BOOMERS (EDIT: and Gen X'ers, and Millennials and Zennials and who-ever-the-hell-ials) who collect diseases like they were pokemon cards don't want to get vaccinated, then let 'em. For as much as we all decry the American Muggle on here for disregarding moral hazards and thinking that medicine must allow them to live in perpetuity, free of the consequences of their behavior, this pandemic may get them to take a good hard look at the way that they are living. Maybe it is only thru their discomfort and loss that they will change, and we will stop being the butt of the international "fat, ugly American" jokes. I know I'd love a healthier, trimmer American public.

I'd take an American populace with an average BMI of 25.

EDIT: My post got cut off. Resuming...

I'd take an American populace with an average BMI of 25 over an average BMI of 34 all day, every day. Before anyone says: "B-bu-but then we'd have fewer emergencies and we'd all be out of jobz!" - Yeah, we would see less disease burden and less related ER visits, but we'd find ways to do other things to have a net positive impact on society at large. Veers is doing it with his side-gig-turned-main-gig. Birdstrike did it and got the hell out before he stroked out. dchristismi did it and her life is way better. There's always talk on here about fellowship-this, fellowship-that. Yeah, we'd find ways to adapt and free ourselves from the perils of the ER. We might like it more. I guarantee we all would like our ER shifts a lot more if it weren't [us] versus [the legions of ignorant, obese, entitled muggles] all day every day.
 
Last edited:
I know an acquaintance whose family member died after getting covid the 2nd time.
 
South florida is probably the best place to test this theory.

yes. Probably seen like 12-15 people who were double covids and died. I would say probably something just shy of 10% of my total covid patients are double covid patients and they dont seem to do any better than first timers do. Keep in context that my region got REAMED a year ago (technically july 2020) and was the epicenter of covid *for the whole world* and is now the epicenter of covid in florida during this rather embarrassing time for the state.

So I have a huge "already got covid" population for the "got covid for the first time" people to cough on, and it clearly provides some protection but also its a very incomplete and insufficient protection. The people who get it the second time get it just as bad (sometimes worse sometimes better, usually about the same) as they got it the first time and death gets another swipe at them. I suspect people who had covid once already are less likely to get sick that second time in the first place - because I would expect to see (numerically) more of them if there wasnt some baseline protective element present. But I also dont think that "less likely to get sick" phenomenon carries over once you become symptomatic -Because they seem just like any other unlucky schmuck once they are sick enough to come to the hospital from what I've seen.
 
RustedFox said:
If the BOOMERS (EDIT: and Gen X'ers, and Millennials and Zennials and who-ever-the-hell-ials) who collect diseases like they were pokemon cards don't want to get vaccinated, then let 'em. For as much as we all decry the American Muggle on here for disregarding moral hazards and thinking that medicine must allow them to live in perpetuity, free of the consequences of their behavior, this pandemic may get them to take a good hard look at the way that they are living. Maybe it is only thru their discomfort and loss that they will change, and we will stop being the butt of the international "fat, ugly American" jokes. I know I'd love a healthier, trimmer American public.

I'd take an American populace with an average BMI of 25.
Click to expand...
I agree with the BMI average commentary. You gotta let people pay their money and take their chances. Hence my beef with universal medical coverage...if a person cannot afford to stay in the ICU interminably, he'll be much more careful with his health or he'll simply die. Careful means masks and social distancing for some, and vaxx? for others. And death means...well...survival of the fittest?

I'm sorry for everyone who's getting burnt out on COVID; it's terrible to see pts go that way, whether it's their first time around with the disease or not. I wish hospital admin were much more understanding of what medicoes are going through right now.
 
DocEspana said:
South florida is probably the best place to test this theory.

yes. Probably seen like 12-15 people who were double covids and died. I would say probably something just shy of 10% of my total covid patients are double covid patients and they dont seem to do any better than first timers do. Keep in context that my region got REAMED a year ago (technically july 2020) and was the epicenter of covid *for the whole world* and is now the epicenter of covid in florida during this rather embarrassing time for the state.

So I have a huge "already got covid" population for the "got covid for the first time" people to cough on, and it clearly provides some protection but also its a very incomplete and insufficient protection. The people who get it the second time get it just as bad (sometimes worse sometimes better, usually about the same) as they got it the first time and death gets another swipe at them. I suspect people who had covid once already are less likely to get sick that second time in the first place - because I would expect to see (numerically) more of them if there wasnt some baseline protective element present. But I also dont think that "less likely to get sick" phenomenon carries over once you become symptomatic -Because they seem just like any other unlucky schmuck once they are sick enough to come to the hospital from what I've seen.
Click to expand...
Anyone under 65?
 
d2305 said:
Anyone under 65?
Click to expand...

I can think of at least one because I coded him the other day but had admitted him like 3 weeks ago. late 30s AA male who was athletic with only htn as a risk factor. He got it a second time and the second time he looked like ****. Went into renal failure at some point during the admission and I was the code blue coverage a few days ago when he coded a bunch of times and died. I think there was another 2 of them that were younger and definitely double covids and died. but i'm scouring many months of deaths in my mind so I cant recall the ages on 95% of the covid code blues I see so

I feel like the ones I'm seeing that are having 2nd natual infections and getting sick are 50-50 young(er) and elderly. The ones who die after double covid might be closer to 25-75 young vs old? Keep in context that we are seeing A F***TON of young people getting it. Getting it for the first time, the second time, or getting it (mildly) despite vaccination. If you ever needed proof that social habits also matter, just the fact that we dont see many older people getting it, even as breakthrough cases, is a testament to the idea that south florida is going out socially as if nothing has changed and the young people are just massively exposing themselves left and right while the older people sort of got used to being distanced.
 
nikolaite said:
I agree with the BMI average commentary.
Click to expand...
Elevated BMI has been known to increase ones chance of death from COVID for over 18 months. That's enough time, at a rate of 1lb per week to lose over 75 pounds. How many people have gotten serious about exercise and diet in the past 18 months, to bolster their chances of surviving COVID?
 
Birdstrike said:
Elevated BMI has been known to increase ones chance of death from COVID for over 18 months. That's enough time, at a rate of 1lb per week to lose over 75 pounds. How many people have gotten serious about exercise and diet in the past 18 months, to bolster their chances of surviving COVID?
Click to expand...

Forget about COVID for a second. Lose one pound a week for half a year and that's 26 pounds.
Now go pick up a 25 pound dumbbell.
That's huge.
America would be hugely more healthy.
Someone start a TikTok challenge to do so, seeing as how that's the only way Americans do things anymore; because someone online made a :20 second video about it.
 
Birdstrike said:
Elevated BMI has been known to increase ones chance of death from COVID for over 18 months. That's enough time, at a rate of 1lb per week to lose over 75 pounds. How many people have gotten serious about exercise and diet in the past 18 months, to bolster their chances of surviving COVID?
Click to expand...

I dropped 18lbs during covid from simply being healthy. But to be fair I'm 5'11 and went from 178 to 160. So I'm not exactly a big BMI person. But I guess I count. Decided the world was ****ing ending (this decision was made early in the pandemic) and got a treadmill as an impulse buy that became a lifestyle habit.
 
Birdstrike said:
Elevated BMI has been known to increase ones chance of death from COVID for over 18 months. That's enough time, at a rate of 1lb per week to lose over 75 pounds. How many people have gotten serious about exercise and diet in the past 18 months, to bolster their chances of surviving COVID?
Click to expand...

Yup and how often have we heard Fauci or the surgeon general or the CDC heads stand up and say this on TV?
 
DocEspana said:
I dropped 18lbs during covid from simply being healthy. But to be fair I'm 5'11 and went from 178 to 160. So I'm not exactly a big BMI person. But I guess I count. Decided the world was ****ing ending (this decision was made early in the pandemic) and got a treadmill as an impulse buy that became a lifestyle habit.
Click to expand...
I lost 30 during the same time span but I'm a decent bit taller than you are. 230 to 200. Purely diet. Interestingly, 1 month ago was the first time I've had a normal HDL ever. Who would have guessed?
 
Dr Mantis Toboggan said:
Yup and how often have we heard Fauci or the surgeon general or the CDC heads stand up and say this on TV?
Click to expand...

You cant say fatty's die fast unless youre the doctor in the room with no cameras at which point you can just squeeze their pannus and say 'normally i'd send you home but this <shakes pannus> is why you qualify for monoclonal antibodies.'
 
DocEspana said:
I dropped 18lbs during covid from simply being healthy. But to be fair I'm 5'11 and went from 178 to 160. So I'm not exactly a big BMI person. But I guess I count. Decided the world was ****ing ending (this decision was made early in the pandemic) and got a treadmill as an impulse buy that became a lifestyle habit.
Click to expand...
I lost a bunch of weight the year before COVID so didn't need to lose any when the virus hit. But man, was I sure glad I already had. What COVID did spark me to do, particularly during the boredom of the lockdown, was to start running every day, at least one mile. It stuck and I've kept it up. Today was day #530 without missing a single day.
 
DocEspana said:
...youre the doctor in the room with no cameras at which point you can just squeeze their pannus and say 'normally i'd send you home but this <shakes pannus> is why you qualify for monoclonal antibodies.'
Click to expand...
"So you're saying it's a good thing I've got some padding on me, right doc? Because that means I can get the medicine."
 
Birdstrike said:
Elevated BMI has been known to increase ones chance of death from COVID for over 18 months. That's enough time, at a rate of 1lb per week to lose over 75 pounds. How many people have gotten serious about exercise and diet in the past 18 months, to bolster their chances of surviving COVID?
Click to expand...

My husband has; and he’s successfully dropped 60 lb with no rebound.
 
What’s the end game of COVID-19 vaccines? I ask in genuine curiosity. 3rd booster, 4th, 5th, or yearly for life? Is this going to be a disease requiring a chronic dependence on immunization to stave off severe morbidity/mortality, or will reaching a certain level of sustained immunity lead to eventual complete suppression of COVID-19 as a disease with any severe morbidity/mortality for an acceptable number of people (some people still die from an initial precipitating hit from rhino virus even though very uncommonly). From an evolutionary standpoint, I think we are challenged to out vaccinate a disease (like most) that seemingly evolves faster than our ability to combat.

Interesting article that was passed on to me this morning regarding pandemics, history and evolution from a public health professional:

Everything We Know about The Pandemic is Wrong - Or…
 
Dr Mantis Toboggan said:
So some docs I know have gotten their 3rd dose already, who are not immunosuppressed etc.

Anyone here gotten it yet?
Click to expand...

It's offered at one of my hospitals. Haven't gotten it yet. Will in the next month. I was inoculated with Pfizer the first time...I kind of want Moderna but I don't know if it's available where I am
 
Mount Asclepius said:
What’s the end game of COVID-19 vaccines?
Click to expand...
The end game for COVID-19 vaccines is, periodic boosters to reduce risk of hospitalization and death, while gaining increasing herd immunity from mild and asymptomatic breakthrough infections, while studying the effects of severe COVID disease and it's variants on the unvaccinated, who've been so kind as to volunteer as our guinea pigs.
 
Mount Asclepius said:
What’s the end game of COVID-19 vaccines? I ask in genuine curiosity. 3rd booster, 4th, 5th, or yearly for life? Is this going to be a disease requiring a chronic dependence on immunization to stave off severe morbidity/mortality, or will reaching a certain level of sustained immunity lead to eventual complete suppression of COVID-19 as a disease with any severe morbidity/mortality for an acceptable number of people (some people still die from an initial precipitating hit from rhino virus even though very uncommonly). From an evolutionary standpoint, I think we are challenged to out vaccinate a disease (like most) that seemingly evolves faster than our ability to combat.

Interesting article that was passed on to me this morning regarding pandemics, history and evolution from a public health professional:

Everything We Know about The Pandemic is Wrong - Or…
Click to expand...

This will eventually turn into the other circulating viruses. Minimal morbidity and mortality. Might take several years or a decade or two. Why would you think otherwise? What is so special about this SARS-COV-2 vs
- 229E
- NL63
- OC43
- HKU1
- MERS
- SARS-COV-1

We have either defeated them or adapted to them and do fine.

At this point in evolution, I would rather bet money on human ingenuity over evolutional forces.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Aways in EM - necessary or not?
Replies
16
Views
2K
RustedFox
RustedFox
KGflyboy
Anybody else's Hospitalists not admitting patients anymore?
2 3
Replies
106
Views
7K
Splenda88
S
Tenk
Patient got themself arrested
Replies
22
Views
3K
Tenk
Tenk
Major
Anyone here work for IES?
Replies
2
Views
624
JacobMcCandles
J
N
Critical care time fraud?
2 3
Replies
104
Views
6K
emergentmd
E
Top