Selecting a research group

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Rankik

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Hey all,

As the title says, I am in the process of selecting a research group to join. Just to be clear this is research to be done as an undergraduate, not graduate level yet :laugh: . I have met with several professors and there are three I am trying to decide from, all who have said I am welcomed to join their lab. The list is as followed:

1) Professor "A" just joined the university and is about to start up their lab this Spring semester. The research involves catalysis and trying to discover how a catalysis functions and why it is able to speed up reactions in biological systems.

2) Professor "B" is well established in the university and currently has three research groups she handles. Her research consist of drug delivery to the brain through the use of phospholipids, the effects of certain proteins as it relates to heart and Alzheimer's disease, and oxidation effects on the body in relation to this (such as from smoking).

3) Professor "C" has been in the university for a significant amount of time, though not as much as Professor B. His research focus is in virology and immunoregulatory lipids. The virology focuses on viruses that targets insects in regards to how to inhibit or accelerate the affect. The lipid research is focused on how they act as signaling molecules for regulating inflammation in humans.


Now my thoughts and the information I have received from all the professors. Firstly I was amazed on how much insight each professor gave me in not only their research, but of the research of the other professors. All three presented me with the pros and cons from each group in a very unbiased manner. For professor A I was told that it is a complete new start up in research, which can be a disadvantage when compared to the other two who have research projects going, able to place me right away in a project. However I was also told that due to the professor just starting it, he would be spending most of his time in the lab, allowing me a greater opportunity of being mentored and having him around, whereas the other two professors will have periods of absence due to either teaching a class or going to conferences.

Professor B as stated is the most established and has many research projects to choose from. She has also stated she pushes her students in the lab to do more than just research in her lab, having them apply for other programs and entering in poster presentation contest. She is also the director of the MARC program, which I have plans of applying in the coming fall semester. Not that this would be a deciding factor, but working directly with her has the advantage of being with someone that runs a program aimed to helping students succeed in graduate studies. My only concern is with her having so many different research labs, the amount of time I would have learning from her would be limited. Her research is very interesting and having someone push you to do better and apply yourself is always a good thing.

Professor C is the one I am currently leaning towards at the moment. For starters my goals are to do research in HIV in the future, thus being in a lab that works with virus seems like a logical choice. At the same time I understand this is research done at an undergraduate level, thus I don't have to be doing research with viruses just yet, but the advantage exist in being able to learn more about virus research and it directly reflects my research interest when the admission process starts. The professor is also in the process of finishing up research in HIV, the project is unfortunately falling out due to an agreement not going through. One of the psych professors was going to provide a group of people who were at high risk of HIV transmission, but it never came through. However there is the possibility of doing a semester worth of research on samples in regards to how long a specimen can last before the virus is not detectable.

Aside from that, Professor C also mentioned a different project involving the biological effects on cells from a virus and the use of mass spectrometry, which he said is a project I could do on my own. He did say he was being very selective on people joining his research and the need of becoming very independent by mid-summer. At that time he will be gone for very long periods of time going to other universities to learn more up to date research methods. This can be good and bad, as becoming independent on a project really leads to it being your own work, but at the same time him having very long periods of absence makes mentoring limited.

Aside from all that, if I was only considering research all three seem to stand in equal grounds, as I am sure I will learn a great amount from any of the three professors. However professor C was more upfront and real, in the sense of the reality of research. He made the point on his own that getting into HIV research can be difficult due to limited funding; unless you have a clinical approach (luckily getting an MD/Phd would help with this 😉 ). He also touched on the fact that when you go through research, having a 5% success rate in a project is considered very good, and only that 5% is what goes into being published. The fact that he is so upfront with the realities of research and the current states of funding makes me want to favor him.

Phew that was a lot of text. For the TL;DR group, the summary is this:

Three professors for undergrad research -

Prof A is brand new, catalysis research, more mentoring time

Prof B very well established, three search labs in drug delivery, heart and Alzheimer's disease, director of research program I want to join, potential very limited mentor time

Prof C established, research with viruses (that fits my interest in HIV) and lipids, able to do an entire research project on my own, will have long periods of absences next fall, and is very upfront with the realities of research and difficulties in it, both funding and the actual research.

Any insight and advice is greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
My honest opinion?

Prof C, provided you think he'll be around enough to provide some mentorship before leaving. The first project I joined is directed by someone very similar, and I've gotta tell you - having a mentor in research early on has been very, very helpful to me. If I have a question about research, even if its just tangentially related to my project, he's there to provide help. When the goings got rough this semester, my PI gave me some words of wisdom that helped me sort through my **** and figure things out. This kind of support alone is invaluable. If you're not sure Professor C can't provide that and are sure Professor A can, you may want to make sure that you foster a relationship with Professor A at the very least and perhaps consider working in their lab. Others more experienced than I probably have much more to say about the pros and cons of working in a lab that's just starting out, so I can't really offer any advice on that.

The PI of my second project is much more like professor B. I like the project, I like the work, I like my independence - but when I come to him with questions, I often end up feeling like I'm disturbing him. Mentorship has been relatively rare from him - quite helpful, but rare.

As an undergrad, I personally feel like research is more about mentorship and less about the project. Your overall accomplishments and what you learned about doing science will most likely weigh more than the fanciness of your project. However, I am an undergrad myself, so take all this with a grain of salt.
 
One thing that you didn't address is their track record with previous undergrads--getting them posters/presentations/abstracts/publications, as well as the students going on to graduate school (especially MD/PhD programs if that is your goal) and where.

Try to talk to students in each of the labs if at all possible, too.
 
Well as far as poster presentations go, I know for the two professors that have been at the university they have had several of their students do this. As far as publication, those are more rare but is more reflective of how much time/effort is put into the lab. I am unable to speak in regards to the new professor, from what I understand he has just finished his post doc from Stanford, so I believe this is his first lab.

However getting the chance to do posters isn't really an issue, if I get in the MARC program (chances are very high), I will be in several workshops that are aimed in getting to that point, along with a summer of research in almost any university in the country. In fact I'm almost positive a poster presentation is a requirement for finishing the program, lol. All three professors are mentors in the program, thus they know the focus is to make the student as compitive as possible. Also I'm not too worried about getting a publication, from what I understand that is the exception rather than the norm.
 
Well as far as poster presentations go, I know for the two professors that have been at the university they have had several of their students do this. As far as publication, those are more rare but is more reflective of how much time/effort is put into the lab. I am unable to speak in regards to the new professor, from what I understand he has just finished his post doc from Stanford, so I believe this is his first lab.

However getting the chance to do posters isn't really an issue, if I get in the MARC program (chances are very high), I will be in several workshops that are aimed in getting to that point, along with a summer of research in almost any university in the country. In fact I'm almost positive a poster presentation is a requirement for finishing the program, lol. All three professors are mentors in the program, thus they know the focus is to make the student as compitive as possible. Also I'm not too worried about getting a publication, from what I understand that is the exception rather than the norm.

Poster presentations in your University research program (or whatever it is you'll be doing) are not as important or well-regarded as presentations at nationally-recognized scientific symposia, such as the American Association for Cancer Research, American Diabetes Association, or other smaller ones that are still "competitive" to get an abstract accepted for presentation; it's not really impressive to present for an undergrad symposium at your local school, as it's a requirement for your program and not evidence of substantial research done. Also, I'm not sure why you would not be interested in getting a publication; although it's an exception, it's certainly not something that's going to hurt your application, and if you get the rare opportunity to have a first-author pub (which requires a deal of luck and dedication), you'll be very thankful you chose the lab you did.
 
As an undergrad, I personally feel like research is more about mentorship and less about the project. Your overall accomplishments and what you learned about doing science will most likely weigh more than the fanciness of your project. However, I am an undergrad myself, so take all this with a grain of salt.

^THIS

Personally, I would probably chose Professor C based on what you've told us and because their lab/mentorship style seems to fit my own (although make sure they would be able to mentor you before leaving). I need my independence in lab (I can't stand people watching over my shoulder 24/7), however, I also need a mentor that I can go to with questions if I have them. I had a PI who was like Professor B and rarely saw them. On the rare occasion that they were in the building, I felt like I was annoying them with trivial things. My thesis advisor is like Professor C-- it's worked out very well for me. I haven't done research for anybody like Professor A. However, I have friends who joined labs that were just starting up and have excelled in these labs.

I will also echo what uniqenam said in terms of presentations and papers... you should definitely take advantage of the ability to start you own project IF you feel like Professor C would be a good mentor to you.

I guess I'm a strong believer of going with your gut... if you get bad vibes from a lab or PI, it's probably not the place for you. Likewise, if you get great vibes, go with it.
 
What I meant by publication is that I'm not basing my decision on which lab has the best chance of getting me one. Yes I agree having a publication, and especially a first author, would be a huge boost, however the odds of that happening is a crap shoot. Like you said there is a factor of luck. If considering that, professor B would have the greater chance of getting any kind of publication, while professor C if the research were to be publish, it would very likely be me being a first author due to being the only one doing the project with the mass spec.

Also to touch on the poster pesentation, it wouldn't be just be university based. There are other programs, or competitive venues in which the research program has you aim for. The main focus in the summer research is doing your own abstract at a university with several graduates and PI's. There is even funding specific to having you present original research at national conferences.

Getting into the program itself is competive. However I have spoken with the director several times and given my current academic status and the requirements for the program, my chance of entering are very high, more so due to the fact I know in what area I want to do research in, which is something many of the applicants lack.
 
All of the opportunities seem great, and it looks like youre asking your potential mentors the right questions and takng a good approach!

Of course research topic is important--absolutely not in the sense that you need to stay in 1 field for undergrad, grad, and beyond--but especially at the undergrad stage, it does make life happier if you are pursuing something youre interested in. Keep in mind your interest can change, and in that vein, virology/microbiology can be a great expertise for all sorts of biological and medical sciences (infectious diseases, neuro, gene therapy, the list goes on...) so finding a topic to be passionate about is not only great in and of itself, But it will benefit you in unexpected ways!

Now in terms of actual advice, i say consider the opportunities in the different labs within the context of your resources and strength/weaknesses. If you are positive that you want to go to an ultracompetitive mdphd program, your objective is to be a steller student while gaining a solid background in research.

Weigh your strengths and weaknesses in All the stuff thats important for school/science (work ethic, curiosity, organization, creativity, intellect, people skills, etc.) and figure which opportunity fits you the best while still kicking ass in school. If school isnt hard for you, i would suggest a or c, as those are the opportunities where you can put the most of yourself into. If you think you need lots of guidance in being in a lab (techniques, planning expts, analyzing data, optimization, etc...all of this stuff takes experience and lots of stupid and time-consuming mistakes can be made especially if you dont have guidance), i would go a or b. If you want to get right into it and start tackling projects without having logistical burdens, i would go b or c.

Find a place where you can get the most out of lab (whatever it is that you want to get out of your experience) while getting good premed stats.
 
^THIS

Personally, I would probably chose Professor C based on what you've told us and because their lab/mentorship style seems to fit my own (although make sure they would be able to mentor you before leaving). I need my independence in lab (I can't stand people watching over my shoulder 24/7), however, I also need a mentor that I can go to with questions if I have them. I had a PI who was like Professor B and rarely saw them. On the rare occasion that they were in the building, I felt like I was annoying them with trivial things. My thesis advisor is like Professor C-- it's worked out very well for me. I haven't done research for anybody like Professor A. However, I have friends who joined labs that were just starting up and have excelled in these labs.

I will also echo what uniqenam said in terms of presentations and papers... you should definitely take advantage of the ability to start you own project IF you feel like Professor C would be a good mentor to you.

I guess I'm a strong believer of going with your gut... if you get bad vibes from a lab or PI, it's probably not the place for you. Likewise, if you get great vibes, go with it.

My gut feeling is definitely towards professor C based on the fact I would be able to do my own project. Also I do feel during this time up until he has to head off he would be putting a lot of focus in mentoring me (and one other student that may be joining) to be able to work on my own. I am the same way in that I don't like having someone watch me 24/7, and having the ability to decide on how to approach the research is a big plus, rather than being given a step by step guide on how to follow instructions.

With professor B I don't see approaching her with questions being an issue of her being annoyed or feeling it is trivial, she is very pleasant and nice. My main concern is that due to the fact she has three research labs, is the director of a research program, and also has other responsibilities, the chances of having mentoring with her would be very limiting. Especially when you consider how many students she must have to be running three separate labs.

I am still hoping to get some insight on what it is like to start in a brand new lab. I know the mentoring will be there as the professor will want to get their lab running, so they will be spending a great deal of time there. However I have no idea how the environment will be like, especially as an undergraduate, will his focus be more so for the graduates at the time? Will the actual research be very direct on what to do? I'm sure I would learn a lot from him, and I didn't get any bad vibes with speaking with him, he was actually fun to talk with 🙂 . I have these concerns because I know when you start up a lab, you have to get results if you want to continue to receive funding. Though this applies for any lab at any point, I would imagine it's more imperative at the startup phase.
 
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