Self Defense Course?

[Solideliquid]

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Anyone think of taking a self-defense course before starting intern year in psych? Am I thinking about this too much?

 

[prominence]

self defense course? wtf? bro, if u r that concerned about ur safety, are u sure u picked the right specialty?

 

[Anasazi23]

I could have used it this past Monday. Luckily I watch a lot of UFC.

 

[Triathlon]

hey I've thought about it. Because it would be fun. Instead of running away like a little girl from a PCP withdrawler i could jump into the fit and become the "whitecoat brawler".
What'd y'all think?

 

[Psyclops]

HAHAHAHA. Yo, He-Men, I'm sure you can ask to join the CPI training courses with the nurses and the techs, you know where they teach you how to safely restrain and physically subdue agitated patients. Also, if you do it according to hospital policy you won't get your asses sued when you break someones arm.

 

[pschmom1]

I plan on it b/c I'm only 5'3" and rather small. I think it will be neccessary for me to know how to defend myself if circumstances arise. I can't count on the orderlys to hold my hand while I deal with my patients.

 

[Solideliquid]

self defense course? wtf? bro, if u r that concerned about ur safety, are u sure u picked the right specialty?

LOL what a complete tool!

Anyway, no it's not like I'm looking to join the security guys and earn a medal or anything. I just meant being able to deflect a blow and/or put someone down without actually hurting them too much. You never know when a psychotic patient is going to jump at you during an interview, say if you forget to place yourself between the patient and the door.

 

[Milo]

Here's what I do...

a) run like hell

or

b) curl up into a fetal position so they can't pummel my tender vittles.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Here's what I do...

a) run like hell

or

b) curl up into a fetal position so they can't pummel my tender vittles.

You left out ---
c) scream for the burly NAs to come to your rescue.

 

[Anasazi23]

Here's what I do...

a) run like hell

or

b) curl up into a fetal position so they can't pummel my tender vittles.

LMAO

 

[Pterion]

Anyone think of taking a self-defense course before starting intern year in psych? Am I thinking about this too much?

Over 15 years martial arts experience before entering forensic settings as a psychologist. All I can say is that it was 15 years VERY well spent. If I may make a suggestion, ask the cops who escort patients to emergency psych a lot what they train in during off hours (NOT departmental stuff - too PC).

Anyone who thinks that a non-judgmental and caring clinical attitude is all you need has never actually worked the job.

 

[Psyclops]

The one thing that hadn't occured to me earlier. In my experience, about 99% of the violent outbursts can be avoided by being empathetic (as much as you hate that solideliquid) and using common sense. Spend enough time with paranoid schizophrenics, and you will know what I'm talking about. As for the forensic settings, that's a different story. If it comes down to a restraint, the staff failed. Sure there will be times in which the escaltaion cannot be avoided, but for the most part they can. Work on your interpersonal skills.

 

[Solideliquid]

The one thing that hadn't occured to me earlier. In my experience, about 99% of the violent outbursts can be avoided by being empathetic (as much as you hate that solideliquid) and using common sense. Spend enough time with paranoid schizophrenics, and you will know what I'm talking about. As for the forensic settings, that's a different story. If it comes down to a restraint, the staff failed. Sure there will be times in which the escaltaion cannot be avoided, but for the most part they can. Work on your interpersonal skills.

I've been dominated by the psych(scient)ologists. I'll just go home now.

 

[littlepurplepil]

Do residencies offer any sort of training or classes in self defense? Just some sort of intro to takin' care of business...while being as empathetic as possible, of course 😛

On my psych rotation, they actually did give us a few self-defense tips...stand at an angle to the pt to be less confrontational and also to make it easier to protect your "tender vittles," how to keep a pt from choking you out when they grab your tie (for the boys), and how to block shots to the knees. They also gave us "safety whistles" so we could call for help

 

[Anasazi23]

Do residencies offer any sort of training or classes in self defense? Just some sort of intro to takin' care of business...while being as empathetic as possible, of course 😛

On my psych rotation, they actually did give us a few self-defense tips...stand at an angle to the pt to be less confrontational and also to make it easier to protect your "tender vittles," how to keep a pt from choking you out when they grab your tie (for the boys), and how to block shots to the knees. They also gave us "safety whistles" so we could call for help

Many residencies offer a self defense and a safe-restraint course. Empathy doesn't cut the mustard with an acutely psychotic, illogical patient who is either actively hallucinating, on drugs, has a history of violence, is provoked by another patient, is akithetic from medication, and lots of other uncontrollable situations. Restraints are the required treatment when chemical restraints and less-restrictive measures have failed to contain the patient, the patient is hurting themself despite medication (head bangers and wall punchers) and for medical patients (the so-called med/surg standard) to prevent people from stopping necessary treatment.

 

[littlepurplepil]

Many residencies offer a self defense and a safe-restraint course. Empathy doesn't cut the mustard with an acutely psychotic, illogical patient who is either actively hallucinating, on drugs, has a history of violence, is provoked by another patient, is akithetic from medication, and lots of other uncontrollable situations. Restraints are the required treatment when chemical restraints and less-restrictive measures have failed to contain the patient, the patient is hurting themself despite medication (head bangers and wall punchers) and for medical patients (the so-called med/surg standard) to prevent people from stopping necessary treatment.

👍

I'm all about restraining the scary ones...I had enough big, burly, acutely psychotic pts on my inpt weeks to convince me that restraints--chemical or physical--are not only necessary in some cases, but actually safer (for all involved) than solely relying on empathy & sweet talking.

 

[needinformation]

This is the most important thing:
Trust what your gut tells you. If you feel the little hairs standing up on your back, move away.

 

[Psyclops]

Like you guys always tend to do, you missed my point. Stop worrying about being Rambo, and learn how to listen to your patients. It will help you out of more binds then it puts you into. Obviously there will always be patients that need to be restrained, how else are you going to get the 5 of haldol and 2 of ativan in thier ass. Ana, the patient is hurting themselves despite medication? I would wager that the head banger needs more than medication. Give 'em enough thorazine and they will stop, but you aren't going to cure 'em with that. I will say that you can get places by rationalizing with even the floridly psychotics, but you can't be lazy. Unfortunately you all won't be doing it, it will be some ill trained, $7.85 an hour orderly who doesn't know what's going on, hopefully you have some good nurses to take care of the situation. But the hospital doesn't care either, why waste time letting a schizophrenic disrupt the unit, when you can tie them to the bed and give them 10 of haldol. That kind of medicine requires the skill of a pre-schooler. To reiterate, there will always be patients at the end of the spectrum that you won't be able to reach until the clozaril has sunk in. But for the most part you should be worrying about being good listeners, your patients have most likely been suffering with thier illness longer than you have been alive.

 

[Solideliquid]

Like you guys always tend to do, you missed my point. Stop worrying about being Rambo, and learn how to listen to your patients. It will help you out of more binds then it puts you into. Obviously there will always be patients that need to be restrained, how else are you going to get the 5 of haldol and 2 of ativan in thier ass. Ana, the patient is hurting themselves despite medication? I would wager that the head banger needs more than medication. Give 'em enough thorazine and they will stop, but you aren't going to cure 'em with that. I will say that you can get places by rationalizing with even the floridly psychotics, but you can't be lazy. Unfortunately you all won't be doing it, it will be some ill trained, $7.85 an hour orderly who doesn't know what's going on, hopefully you have some good nurses to take care of the situation. But the hospital doesn't care either, why waste time letting a schizophrenic disrupt the unit, when you can tie them to the bed and give them 10 of haldol. That kind of medicine requires the skill of a pre-schooler. To reiterate, there will always be patients at the end of the spectrum that you won't be able to reach until the clozaril has sunk in. But for the most part you should be worrying about being good listeners, your patients have most likely been suffering with thier illness longer than you have been alive.

I just don't know how to respond to democrat craziness like this.

 

[Psyclops]

Of course you don't. Wait until you get some experience in the field, then you might have an opinion.

 

[Solideliquid]

Of course you don't. Wait until you get some experience in the field, then you might have an opinion.

oh SNAP! Dominated again!


Edit: Why doesn't a mod just CLOSE this thread? We can't even have a decent discussion about anything without psychologists hijacking our discussion with disruptions and insults.


Edit #2: LOL I just had a funny thought of psyclops trying to calmly talk down a psychotic while the patient is closing off the O2 to his brain with a chokehold.

 

[Milo]

You left out ---
c) scream for the burly NAs to come to your rescue.

They don't respond to my screams anymore. I think they're desensitized.

 

[Anasazi23]

Like you guys always tend to do, you missed my point. Stop worrying about being Rambo, and learn how to listen to your patients.

And what if the staff is alerted to someone who has or just finished eating breakfast and has ruminated over their eggs for the last 20 minutes and pops off without warning?

Doesn't happen? You're wrong.

It will help you out of more binds then it puts you into. Obviously there will always be patients that need to be restrained, how else are you going to get the 5 of haldol and 2 of ativan in thier ass.

I completely agree that verbal de-escalation is the best, and easiest. I do it almost every day. Trust me, I'd rather talk someone down than fill out the 20 minutes of paperwork required to restrain someone. So, it's not about me being "lazy."

By the way, you get 5 of Haldol and 2 of Ativan (if that's what you're using - it depends on the patient) in the ass with the help of security. The doctor has to take charge. And psychiatry inpatient can be a messy business. I'll chemically restrain someone if I'm uneasy rather than have them knock some other patient's teeth out and crush their nose (happened last week.)

Ana, the patient is hurting themselves despite medication? I would wager that the head banger needs more than medication. Give 'em enough thorazine and they will stop, but you aren't going to cure 'em with that. I will say that you can get places by rationalizing with even the floridly psychotics, but you can't be lazy. Unfortunately you all won't be doing it, it will be some ill trained, $7.85 an hour orderly who doesn't know what's going on, hopefully you have some good nurses to take care of the situation. But the hospital doesn't care either, why waste time letting a schizophrenic disrupt the unit, when you can tie them to the bed and give them 10 of haldol. That kind of medicine requires the skill of a pre-schooler.

I thought my implication would be clear. How exactly do you suggest that I empathize and speak to the severely ******ed developmentally delayed questionably psychotic patient?

To reiterate, there will always be patients at the end of the spectrum that you won't be able to reach until the clozaril has sunk in. But for the most part you should be worrying about being good listeners, your patients have most likely been suffering with thier illness longer than you have been alive.

Thanks for the wisdom.
😉

It seems that you have this view of "rambo" psychiatrists running around with syringes of Geodon and restraints is overblown. We talk people down every day...and become good at it.

Just like there are refractory patients that don't respond easily to treatment upstairs on the medical floor, the same happens in psychiatry.

 

[Triathlon]

I thought psychiatry was a good fit for me because I was a good listener. Maybe I should reconsider, what do you think psychops?

 

[Solideliquid]

I thought psychiatry was a good fit for me because I was a good listener. Maybe I should reconsider, what do you think psychops?

 

[vesper9]

oh wow ...hell has frozen over ... i agree with psyclops 😛


i recently had this exact same question (re: self-defense) but didn't know where to find a course that wouldn't just teach me to gouge the eyeballs and kick in the shins/nuts.

I asked a CNA and an RN at the major urban psychiatric inpatient center I'm volunteering at for advice. I really trust the CNA's advice b/c he's been working in various mental health places for a long time and the clients respect him more than any other employee. He told me that as soon as I learned self-defense (not the hospital kind, but the regular kind) I would become a weapon. They both stressed how important prevention and de-escalation was....talked about proper relationships, communication, space issues....it was really really eye-opening for me b/c I was really set for the self-defense thing. The RN did show me some defensive positions/stances in which it would be really hard to get punched, a few moves to break away from someone, etc.

I don't think Psyclops was saying that empathy is all you have to use (lots of posters came out swinging like Dick Cheney here)...but I would only take hospital-type training where you learn how to make it difficult to get assaulted. I think there's a really good argument against other kinds of self-defense and an amazing argument for using conflict resolution and empathy to prevent assaults.

it's all about balance

 

[Psyclops]

Well thanks Vesper, I appreciate that, it is getting chilly here. You were able to sort through my rambloings and get the point I was trying to make. I only was basing that post on three years of inpatient psych experience, most of my detractors here have had as much or more right?

 

[Solideliquid]

The one thing that hadn't occured to me earlier. In my experience, about 99% of the violent outbursts can be avoided by being empathetic (as much as you hate that solideliquid) and using common sense. Spend enough time with paranoid schizophrenics, and you will know what I'm talking about. As for the forensic settings, that's a different story. If it comes down to a restraint, the staff failed. Sure there will be times in which the escaltaion cannot be avoided, but for the most part they can. Work on your interpersonal skills.

........................

 

[Pterion]

Arguments ad hominem aside, and with the sincere hope that my past career doesn't dysqualify my input.....

The in-house training in "protection" or "assists" or whatever PC label they are using these days is for the safety of the patient and the hospital's risk management department, not yours. In many cases such "protections" will be sufficient. For the others, look into things like judo and aikido that are less strike oriented.

I am not suggesting these are the ultimate or superior martial arts. They are just well suited to inpatient protection and liability needs. I would also not talk about it much at work. You don't want a rumor mill to create for you a reputation as the department's Jackie Chan. Just my $0.02

 

[Solideliquid]

Arguments ad hominem aside, and with the sincere hope that my past career doesn't dysqualify my input.....

The in-house training in "protection" or "assists" or whatever PC label they are using these days is for the safety of the patient and the hospital's risk management department, not yours. In many cases such "protections" will be sufficient. For the others, look into things like judo and aikido that are less strike oriented.

I am not suggesting these are the ultimate or superior martial arts. They are just well suited to inpatient protection and liability needs. I would also not talk about it much at work. You don't want a rumor mill to create for you a reputation as the department's Jackie Chan. Just my $0.02

That was the jist of my post. My psych attending told me when he was in fellowship a female colleague of his was stabbed with a pencil. I understand that you can't "defend yourself" with a BAT, but you need a good understanding of self defense. After all I don't want to get severely hurt during my residency.

Again, talking someone down is the best defense against violence but sometimes that won't stop a psychotic patient who sees you as an alien that must be killed.