Seriously.. What is the purpose of secondaries?

[strictlyanon]

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Members do not see this ad.

Do adcoms use them only to decide who to interview and then never read them again? Or, do they still look at them AFTER the interview when making final decisions?

 

[gyngyn]

Do adcoms use them only to decide who to interview and then never read them again? Or, do they still look at them AFTER the interview when making final decisions?

Depending on the school they are the most important part of the application (after MCAT, gpa and personal qualities).

 

[GrapesofRath]

I would say many of those personal qualities that are very important can be revealed through the secondary(note not how flowery their writing style is but how they come across in terms of maturity, development, perspective and reeking of things such as being privileged, spoiled, naive, battle tested etc).

Only 2% or so might be "remarkable" and really stand out in a unique way. That in no ways means only 2% of them influence an applicant and the decision made on them. Like I said you can gleam a whole lot about what I described above through essays and all those things matter alot.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I would say many of those personal qualities that are very important can be revealed through the secondary(note not how flowery their writing style is but how they come across in terms of maturity, development, perspective and reeking of things such as being privileged, spoiled, naive, battle tested etc).

Only 2% or so might be "remarkable" and really stand out in a unique way. That in no ways means only 2% of them influence an applicant and the decision made on them. Like I said you can gleam a whole lot about what I described above through essays and all those things matter alot.

The random numbers that SDN members came up with in their answers are intriguing and this is no exception. May I ask how did you come up with this number? Pure guessing? Real life experience? First number popped into your mind?

 

[Goro]

At my school they are looked over with a fine-toothed comb before interviews and, if needed, at the adcom meeting. Your answers will make or break you, especially after a borderline interview.

Do adcoms use them only to decide who to interview and then never read them again? Or, do they still look at them AFTER the interview when making final decisions?

 

[gannicus89]

I think they can be used to gauge...level of interest. If someone puts zero effort into a secondary, it gives the impression that they aren't totally invested in that school.

I can't wait until I'm finished with them.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The random numbers that SDN members came up with in their answers are intriguing and this is no exception. May I ask how did you come up with this number? Pure guessing? Real life experience? First number popped into your mind?

Uhhh how about that number being the one that has come out of ADCOMs mouth before on this site? Nice try

 

[Dr.Smexy]

Uhhh how about that number being the one that has come out of ADCOMs mouth before on this site? Nice try

Reliable sources indeed and no need to be defensive, I was genuinely curious. Secondary and how much there are can vary from school to school, 2 % seems quite random with no context given. Have a nice evening.

 

[Proteinz]

$

 

[HybridEarth]

As much as they suck to do, I'm really happy I'm given the chance to shed light on my character through secondaries. I don't think the primary does enough justice.

 

[efle]

One of my favorite links is again handy:

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf#page=12

Secondary responses are of medium importance, lower than a whole mess of things. I think @gyngyn's school is quite the outlier if it's up there among most important things right after GPA and MCAT

 

[gyngyn]

One of my favorite links is again handy:

https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf#page=12

Secondary responses are of medium importance, lower than a whole mess of things. I think @gyngyn's school is quite the outlier if it's up there among most important things right after GPA and MCAT

This is a regional difference.
There are CA schools that put a lot of stock in secondaries, whereas there are east coast schools that don't even have them..

 

[Mad Jack]

The random numbers that SDN members came up with in their answers are intriguing and this is no exception. May I ask how did you come up with this number? Pure guessing? Real life experience? First number popped into your mind?

Adcoms have frequently noted that the vast majority of PSs are unremarkable, and of the small numbers of ones that are, half of them are remarkably bad.

That applies to the PS in the primary though. Secondaries often ask the important, non-general things that the school cares about. Secondaries are a big deal for many schools.

 

[gyngyn]

$

No. We could charge for secondaries without asking any questions.

The fee is intended as a disincentive to those who are not likely to be good candidates. We hope that the extra step will give the applicant pause to consider the viability of their candidacy.

The questions give us information relative to our individual missions that helps us choose among the viable candidates.

 

[largelyuntrustworthy]

The fee is intended as a disincentive to those who are not likely to be good candidates. We hope that the extra step will give the applicant pause to consider the viability of their candidacy.QUOTE]

If the fee is to disincentivize misguided applicants then wouldn't it make as much sense for the AMCAS to limit the number of medical schools that a student could apply to? Surely, that would remove a lot of the burden of shifting through unqualified applicants for schools as well as drastically decrease the waitlists that many students mire through.

 

[gyngyn]

If the fee is to disincentivize misguided applicants then wouldn't it make as much sense for the AMCAS to limit the number of medical schools that a student could apply to? Surely, that would remove a lot of the burden of shifting through unqualified applicants for schools as well as drastically decrease the waitlists that many students mire through.

Absolutely! My dream come true. They refuse.
It would also help level the playing field between the wealthy and the middle class.

 

[nwts]

If the fee is to disincentivize misguided applicants then wouldn't it make as much sense for the AMCAS to limit the number of medical schools that a student could apply to? Surely, that would remove a lot of the burden of shifting through unqualified applicants for schools as well as drastically decrease the waitlists that many students mire through.

Not really. How would they set a limit in a way that did this? Would it be 10 schools? 20? 30? Some students are competitive at very few schools (or no schools), and a limit of 10 schools would allow them to apply to schools they weren't competitive at. Other students are very outstanding and could be competitive at many medical schools, and these students would be disqualified from applying to the schools they were qualified at if the limit were 30. I just don't see how a limit could fix this problem.

 

[gyngyn]

Not really. How would they set a limit in a way that did this? Would it be 10 schools? 20? 30? Some students are competitive at very few schools (or no schools), and a limit of 10 schools would allow them to apply to schools they weren't competitive at. Other students are very outstanding and could be competitive at many medical schools, and these students would be disqualified from applying to the schools they were qualified at if the limit were 30. I just don't see how a limit could fix this problem.

All state public schools could count as a single application plus 10. States with no schools could designate "public school substitutes" by negotiating a contract (like WWAMI). As it is, those weakly qualified do not increase their odds by applying to 50 schools where they are weakly qualified, they just waste 5K. They would have been just as well off identifying the 10 where they stood a chance and they might not get overlooked the way they are now.

 

[nwts]

All state public schools could count as a single application plus 10. States with no schools could designate the "free" schools by negotiating a contract (like WWAMI).

Still, though, this wouldn't eliminate the problem. People who have 25 MCAT scores and 3.1 GPAs are probably not competitive really anywhere, but they would still be able to apply to X number of schools. Also, people who are truly outstanding applicants would probably be competitive at their state schools, most private schools, and most out of state friendly public schools. A limit would stop these people from applying to schools that they were actually competitive at.

I also wonder what the limit could reasonably be. Some borderline applicants are not out of the question at many schools, but not good enough to get many interviews. These applicants generally need to cast a broad net in order to get a few interviews since it's kind of random which schools will give them interviews and which won't. Having a low limit (like, say, 15) would handicap these applicants. If the limit is too high (like 40), then it functionally does nothing.

 

[gyngyn]

Still, though, this wouldn't eliminate the problem. People who have 25 MCAT scores and 3.1 GPAs are probably not competitive really anywhere, but they would still be able to apply to X number of schools. Also, people who are truly outstanding applicants would probably be competitive at their state schools, most private schools, and most out of state friendly public schools. A limit would stop these people from applying to schools that they were actually competitive at.

I also wonder what the limit could reasonably be. Some borderline applicants are not out of the question at many schools, but not good enough to get many interviews. These applicants generally need to cast a broad net in order to get a few interviews since it's kind of random which schools will give them interviews and which won't. Having a low limit (like, say, 15) would handicap these applicants. If the limit is too high (like 40), then it functionally does nothing.

The advantage of of being seriously considered in a much smaller pool at no cost seems good to me!

 

[nwts]

The advantage of of being seriously considered in a much smaller pool at no cost seems good to me!

Good point. I still don't see how this would fix the problem of people applying to schools they shouldn't, though. I still think this would happen, even with a limit. Specifically, I think fees do a better job of discouraging people who are hardly competitive anywhere than limits do because a limit would still allow these people to apply to a bunch of schools they weren't competitive at.

 

[efle]

Schools really should just tell AMCAS their screen cutoffs so you can be denied even sending a primary to somewhere you stand no chance

 

[gyngyn]

Schools really should just tell AMCAS their screen cutoffs so you can be denied even sending a primary to somewhere you stand no chance

Depending on your other qualities, the limits vary.
At my school a human reads every application.
We do expect at least a modest amount of self assessment and research on the school in return.

 

[tea guzzling traveler]

I think the limit on number of schools you could apply to would be a good idea. I know of a few people who are applying to >50 schools, and one who is applying to >100 schools. (clearly these people have way too much money and time on their hands). I would say 20 would be a good number, thus giving people a bit of range, allowing to apply a few reaches while still having a very targeted list.

 

[gyngyn]

I think the limit on number of schools you could apply to would be a good idea. I know of a few people who are applying to >50 schools, and one who is applying to >100 schools. (clearly these people have way too much money and time on their hands). I would say 20 would be a good number, thus giving people a bit of range, allowing to apply a few reaches while still having a very targeted list.

This would be higher than the current average (15)!

 

[iDOliveinMD]

.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm thinking about a school that offers only 2 essays for their secondary, 100 word limit per essay, no real screening, and then charge $125 for said secondary...

12,000+ applications x $125 secondary = ~$1,500,000 = $$$

I would happily waive all fees in a system that limited aps.

 

[Spector1]

Probably to judge character and motivations. Also to collect secondary fees