Set me straight!!!

[llamamaster]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey SDN'ers,

So I'm probably going to get ripped on for asking this question but it is something that is on my mind and I need you all to set me straight.

I have recently been accepted to St. George's University in the Caribbean as well as the newly established osteopathic medical school ICOM. As ecstatic as I am about finally being accepted to a US medical school and as much as I loved ICOM, there is one factor that is somewhat off-putting to me.

Please understand that I am willing to go anywhere in the US for the best opportunity when it comes to speciality/residency, however my ultimate goal is come back to California for residency/career (unless I end up really liking the area where I attend school). Also, at this point there are several specialities I am interested in but none of them are in primary care.

Since ICOM does not have any established relationships with hospitals outside of the regions they are dedicated to serving (e.g. California) and no data on GME yet, it is difficult to get an idea of what specialties students obtain and where they end up for residency whereas the Caribbean does have this data (and yes I do acknowledge that many students don't graduate/don't match). I understand that in the end match success comes down to the performance of the student, but where the student attended medical school has some influence in that success.

I personally know 3/3 family members and family friends who have graduated from SGU and Ross University within the past 5-10 years who have obtained residences in the speciality of their choice (not PC) and in desirable locations. Yes I know, this is not what you normally hear on SDN but it is what I have seen, so listening to and taking the advice of everyone on SDN about offshore schools is somewhat difficult.

I want to know if I should be giving a SGU a second thought at all or take my acceptance to ICOM and run.

Please be nice, or not.

Thank you!

 

[sab3156]

Take ICOM, and run far away from SGU.

You're welcome.

Though you, as a DO, will have considerable disadvantages in the match that US MDs will not, you can still match into any specialty as a DO if you are extremely strategic about it. What I mean by this is - do research in your specialty of choice early (start between M1 and M2, with ACGME faculty), and do well on Step 1. Don't listen to anyone unless they are ACGME faculty or are telling you information directly from people in the field. You really need the ACGME research connections if you want to match into something competitive. But you will be far better off as a DO than a Caribbean grad.

 

[deleted600623]

Take ICOM and run. Getting into residency is based on your step/comlex score which you mostly control. Study your ass off and nail boards and you’ll be just fine even coming from a new school.

 

[Bert.Macklin]

It's going to be a resounding one-sided response from people here. Absolutely go to ICOM. While it is a new school that does not have any GME data or relationships with california, I would bet that you will still have a significantly better opportunity for success for your future endeavors even going to ICOM rather than an "established" Caribbean school. While it's competitive already to get a desirable residency in California, you would stand a much better chance at ICOM (even factoring into account the fact that it's a new DO school). To me this is a no-brainer, take ICOM and don't even consider SGU.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I think St. George is ~60k/year for tuition and fees alone.

Having worked in Floridian hospitals where a lot of SG alumni are, I can say a LOT of their graduates do match, (here come the tomatoes from the SDNers), but it’s a MUCH riskier and MUCH more costly choice.

ICOM being new (and thus requiring two years of expensive private loans) is also a risk, but it is a MUCH smaller one.

The choice is clear. ICOM for sure.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I just got accepted to ARCOM which is also a new DO school and also to SGU. The choice was clear to me that ARCOM was going to offer me better opportunities to succeed than SGU ever would. Mostly because the statistics are already in DO's favor than IMGs in terms of residency match rate, the attrition at SGU is high, and nobody knows what's also going to happen after the merger in 2020 (already looking bad for IMGs as well). So take ICOM and run with it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[Osminog]

Yes, you'll have trouble matching a non-PC residency in California as an ICOM student.

But as an SGU student, you may have trouble becoming a physician, period. The attrition rate at SGU is high, and the US IMG match rate is low (especially for those gunning for non-PC specialties).

Take your seat at ICOM and don't look back.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Google million dollar mistake and then take your DO school acceptance.

 

[Siromas]

I personally know 3/3 family members and family friends who have graduated from SGU and Ross University within the past 5-10 years who have obtained residences in the speciality of their choice (not PC) and in desirable locations.

You could have said you personally knew 100 SGU/Ross graduates that found residencies of their choice in desirable locations and advice from SDN would still be a resounding "Don't go to the Caribbean".

1) Go to ICOM
2) Take the USLME+COMLEX and do well
3) Go forth and prosper

 

[BucketDoctor]

My advice would be to:

1. Stay far way from the Caribbean
2. Go to ICOM if it is your only acceptance

Schools in the Caribbean don't care about you. They only want your money and they will dismiss you for almost any reason, since they accept more students that they have clinical rotation spots available for.

 

[Goro]

Hey SDN'ers,

So I'm probably going to get ripped on for asking this question but it is something that is on my mind and I need you all to set me straight.

I have recently been accepted to St. George's University in the Caribbean as well as the newly established osteopathic medical school ICOM. As ecstatic as I am about finally being accepted to a US medical school and as much as I loved ICOM, there is one factor that is somewhat off-putting to me.

Please understand that I am willing to go anywhere in the US for the best opportunity when it comes to speciality/residency, however my ultimate goal is come back to California for residency/career (unless I end up really liking the area where I attend school). Also, at this point there are several specialities I am interested in but none of them are in primary care.

Since ICOM does not have any established relationships with hospitals outside of the regions they are dedicated to serving (e.g. California) and no data on GME yet, it is difficult to get an idea of what specialties students obtain and where they end up for residency whereas the Caribbean does have this data (and yes I do acknowledge that many students don't graduate/don't match). I understand that in the end match success comes down to the performance of the student, but where the student attended medical school has some influence in that success.

I personally know 3/3 family members and family friends who have graduated from SGU and Ross University within the past 5-10 years who have obtained residences in the speciality of their choice (not PC) and in desirable locations. Yes I know, this is not what you normally hear on SDN but it is what I have seen, so listening to and taking the advice of everyone on SDN about offshore schools is somewhat difficult.

I want to know if I should be giving a SGU a second thought at all or take my acceptance to ICOM and run.

Please be nice, or not.

Thank you!

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

Quoting the wise gyngyn: "The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score."

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

Medical School at SGU

"Why didn't I Match?"

 

[llamamaster]

Thank you all for your responses! I know what I should do now. Looking forward to starting school!!

 

[Cath Up]

Take ICOM, and run far away from SGU.

You're welcome.

Though you, as a DO, will have considerable disadvantages in the match that US MDs will not, you can still match into any specialty as a DO if you are extremely strategic about it. What I mean by this is - do research in your specialty of choice early (start between M1 and M2, with ACGME faculty), and do well on Step 1. Don't listen to anyone unless they are ACGME faculty or are telling you information directly from people in the field. You really need the ACGME research connections if you want to match into something competitive. But you will be far better off as a DO than a Caribbean grad.

This is the first post I have seen from you that says something positive about osteopathic medicine! What a wild ride it has been!

 

[sab3156]

This is the first post I have seen from you that says something positive about osteopathic medicine! What a wild ride it has been!

LOL <3

 

[cliquesh]

I don't know any caribbean grads personally so I cannot comment on that, but, from my personal experience and my wife's experience, being a DO, in general, is fine. Discrimination against DOs does exist, especially in the surgical subspecialities and at certain institutions. However, with an average usmle score most of the non-surgical subspecialties (family, internal, peds, anesthesia, physical medicine, pathology, ob/gyn, psych, radiology) are obtainable for DOs without much extra effort. Additionally, fellowships seem more welcoming to DOs than residency, assuming your application is decent. I matched my #2 spot for residency and #1 for fellowship. My wife matched her #3 for residency and #1 for fellowship. You'll likely stop caring about this stuff when you get your first job.

 

[futurexray]

Schools can not open unless they have their rotations and GME set up so you will not need to worry about that. Excel and apply to CA for your Residency. Too much unknown with SGU.