Several questions regarding pre-pharmacy.

[Lazlo]

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I am sorry for any irrelevant, short sided questions. I've read the FAQ and several topics through the search function. If you are living in my area please send me a private message because I have more specific questions related to the area I am in currently living in.



I'm not sure if I am asking the right questions, or if I don't know something that I should, so please aid me in anyway. I'm currently a graduating senior in HS and I'm thinking about becoming a pharmacist. I'm in CA and I was accepted into several universities but I am leaning more towards CC(Two different ones) mostly because of costs and proximity to home which would save me money that I could use for graduate school.

My plan is to finish this in a mostly timely and efficient manner which is why I plan to attend summer semesters starting out this summer, getting accepted is more important than time, money, or anything else.

I don't have much money, and I am probably going to be paying for most of this on my own. Is it difficult to study and work, part time? I am thinking of doing this or working really hard this summer and saving money and taking classes during the fall. Is there really a difference in the quality of education from a university to a CC in terms of these classes? From what I know I would be taking standard physics, chem, bio, and math classes, which are hard sciences that are fairly similar everywhere. I also do not need to take any general education classes. How can I best prepare? I know from what I read here that most schools accept credit from CC.

http://www.assist.org/web-assist/welcome.html

Assist seems to help, but from what I remember its only for majors. I believe a list of classes needed would be given by my college counselor.

To anyone living in southern California and is a pharmacist or a pharmacy tech: How difficult would it be to find a job? Does anyone have a first hand experience of a daily life of a pharmacist? Where are you employed?

How many classes should I take per a semester or hours, what would be a good number of classes?

1. I'm an average or above average student, I wouldn't claim that my intelligence is extremely high, is this a possible goal and how difficult is it? Sometimes I doubt my self-qualification for this career path. What should my strengths be? What is the curriculum like during the prereqs, and during graduate school? If I do all the prereqs which degree would this be closest to if I changed my mind about going to graduate school or becoming a pharmacist? What should I know and how do I best prepare for this? I've been told that pharmacy is extremely difficult and that I should not attempt this if I am not intelligent enough. I believe I should have a 3.5 or high during all my prereq classes to have the chance to be accepted into a graduate school, to me this doesn’t seem very difficult. How do I increase my chances of being accepted? Is it fairly simple, meaning, as long as I finish my prereqs with the required GPA I am likely to be accepted?

2. There is a lack of close pharm schools in my area and state (CA), all the pharm programs in my area are 4 year programs, is this correct? Would it be cheaper to attend a private graduate program and live at home, or move near a public university such as UCSD, UCSF and rent a place there?
I am in southern California so my options for attending a graduate school UCSD, USC, UCSF, or several close private colleges. How can I best plan which school to attend? Because according to ASSIST each school would require different classes depending which school I attend, so I am essentially planning 6 or so years into the future and I want to plan the best I can because I am very worried about my success. The FAQ didn't mention any universities in CA. My concern is, each university seems to require that different classes be completed to attend their pharm d program, if I complete a program for X school and I get turned down, what would my options be? It seems I don't understand this very well.

I believe the options for getting to a graduate program are like this,

CSU(Prereqs/Degree?2 or 4 years)---> Private Graduate program-->USC(4 years) or other private colleges. 6-8 years total? How much will this cost?
CC(Prereqs/Degree 2-4 years)---> Public Graduate program-->UCSD, UCSF 6-8 years total? How much will this cost?

How flexible are prereqs that I take, I'm very set on pharmacy, but I cannot predict the future, assuming I'm 1-2 years in, what could I change my major to?


3. How difficult is it to become a pharm tech, I am thinking of doing this to help me pay for college costs. Should I attend a class or simply take the PTCE? After researching I've read several postings in this board which claim that the test is not extremely difficult and that I should basically just study the book and take the test.
http://www.amazon.com/Delmars-Pharmacy-Technician-Certification-Review/dp/0766807436
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0323033679
These books were recommended by someone here from what I recall. How long should I study this book for before taking the test?

4. Should I attempt to go for a B.S. in Chemistry Emphasis in Pharmaceutical Chemistry or something related to Pharmaceutical Chemistry before attending graduate school or should I just finish the requirements and transfer? I believe Pharm Chem is mostly for research and actually working for Pharmaceutical companies. What’s the salary for someone working in those companies, bls.gov does not provide data for such jobs.

5. What standardized tests, licenses, etc other than the PCAT would I have to pass?

6. What is the difference between a hospital job and a standard retail pharmacist? Which has more potential for growth?

7. What internships, experience etc, or other things should I have?

 

[AStudentDoctor]

Well it seems you're asking the right questions. Seeing as I am currently fresh out of HS myself (just graduated) I think I can be of help with this topic.

What you are going to want to do is simply get the highest GPA and the highest PCAT score possible while having pharmacy experience. Sounds easy right? Obviously it's not. However, it seems you have the right mindset already (only a few would even do enough research to ASK such a depth of questions as you have presented us).

Here is my step by step guide for you, take it as you wish:

1) Take summer courses at your local CC this summer (no more than 2 classes, and make sure they're on the same two days-- like MW or TR).

This will get your feet wet, and let you know how tough your CC is going to be. Judging by how hard those two classes are will give you a decent idea on the CC. However, keep in mind CA is known for having expectional CC (unlike my area where our local CC seems to hand out As).

I would also take this time to purchase a book (any is fine) on the Pharmacy Technician Certification Exam (PCTE). Study that for a few weeks (conversions, laws, etc) and then spend the money to take the exam (I haven't done this myself yet, but I've heard it's easy). Being a Certified Pharmacy Technician (CPhT) looks great on an application, plus it might snag you a pay raise wherever you're working.

2) As you work two days a week try to get a job at your local Kroger or Walmart. They are usually VERY welcoming of pre-pharmacy students who want to work in the STORE a few days a week and the PHARMACY for 1-2 days (for job experience/application purposes). OTHERWISE, try to get on at a Rite Aid, CVS, Walgreens, Target, local pharmacy, or even a hospital. The main point is to get a job for 25-30 hours (during this summer) with pharmacy experience attached.

3) After your summer, hopefully you will have saved enough money to start taking classes in the fall and cutting back your hours (15-20). I would suggest taking 12-15 credit hours of courses and NO MORE for your fall/spring semester. Here is an example of what I'm taking:

Summer 2009
ENG 101 Composition (3)
PY110 General Psychology (3)
COM181 Basic Public Speaking (3)
ECO 231 Principles of Microeconomics (3)
-----12 HOURS---- // 0 Labs!

2009-2010 // First Semester
BIO 221 Zoology: Animal Form and Function (Lab Included) (4)
CHE 201 General College Chemistry (Lab Included) (5)
MAT 250 Calculus and Analytic Geometry I (5)
-----14 HOURS----- // 2 LABS!

2009-2010 // Second Semester
CHE 202 General Chemistry and Qualitative Analysis (Lab Included) (5)
BIO 227 Human Anatomy (2)
BIO 228 Human Anatomy Laboratory (2)
MAT 135 Introduction to Probability and Statistics (4)

-----13 HOURS----- // 2 LABS!

Summer 2010
.BIO 227 Principles of Microbiology with Laboratory (5).
ENG 102 Composition and Research (3)
Interpersonal Communications (3) [??]
TAKE PCAT
APPLY FOR EARLY DECISION AT UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY
-----11 HOURS----- // 1 LABS!

2010-2011 // First Semester
CHE 312 Organic Chemistry I (5)
CHE 315 Organic Chemistry I Laboratory (3)
PHY 130 General Physics I (3)
PHY 131 General Physics I Laboratory (1)
Humanities Elective (3 hrs)
-----15 HOURS----- // 2 LABS!

2011-2012 // Second Semester
CHE 320 Organic Chemistry II (3)
CHE 325 Organic Chemistry II Laboratory (3)
PHY 132 General Physics II (3)
PHY 133 General Physics II Laboratory (1)
Cross-Cultural Elective (3 hrs)
-----13 HOURS----- // 2 LABS!

Total Credit Hours: 78 Credit Hours (70 REQ)


KEEP IN MIND that each Pharmacy school has different requirements. The above requirements are based on the University of Kentucky.


What is most important for you is to MAINTAIN a high GPA (3.6+) and even more so if you expect to do this all at a CC; I would say a 4.0 is REQUIRED coming from a CC if you plan on doing this 2 year plan.


4) Get LORs from your teachers at the end of your fall/spring semester for PharmCAS. (http://www.pharmcas.org/)
**PharmCAS is the application service pre-pharmacy students use to apply to Pharmacy School**



5) Obviously after your first year of college (the spring semester of 2010) you're going to want to take a few classes in the summer and keep working at that same pharmacy (should be going on a year now). This is the time to study/take the PCAT (take in June if possible) and apply EARLY DECISION to the school of your choice. There are multiple reasons for doing this. Mainly because you're a CC student (or just a 2 year guy like me) thats trying to compete for spots with people that have bachellor's degrees or vastly more work/life experience.


6) Hopefully you'll get a yes from your ED school, otherwise you'll need to apply for the regular decision of many schools.


7) If you get turned down for all your schools then you'll need to re-apply in the summer of your sophomore year and plan on taking an extra year (junior) at your local GRADUATE college.


8) Go to Pharmacy School!

Hope this helped.

 

[Jor]

wow, all i have to say is..
STICKY PLEASE!

 

[Passion4Sci]

Hey there and welcome to our little hovel on the Interwebz.

Studentdoctor hit a lot of your points, but there's a few things I'd like to add.

Since you're in California, the PCAT won't be necessary (it's never a BAD idea, but I don't think a single school in CA requires it or even "encourages" it). I don't know why you think there is a dearth of Pharmacy schools in California... If I am not mistaken, we have the most SoPs in the nation in one state (UCSD, UCSF, USC, UoP, CNCP, Tuoro and I am missing a couple). Not all of them are 4 year programs either, some of them are accelerated 3 year programs (Which is why you'll need to demonstrate the ability to handle very high courseloads if you decide to go the CC route).

Furthermore, you mentioned USC as your first school of choice, but they require a Bachelor's degree... No ifs, ands, or buts. In fact, you'll find that many SoPs in CA will require a BA/BS, and if they don't, you're pretty much unlikely to get in if you don't have one. For example, let's look at UCSF's stats C/O 2013 numbers:

00.00% no degree
00.82% Associate's degree
96.72% Bachelor's degree
02.46% Graduate degree

You keep mentioning a "public graduate school" - Do you mean undergraduate (i.e., a bachelor's-issuing school/program)?

I am confused by your diagram. Option one is CC--->Undergraduate [I assume] to receive 4 year degree ----> Pharmacy school... Is that correct?

If I am not mistaken, regardless you plan to get a Bachelor's degree and I would recommend that if you only want to go to Pharmacy school in California. Whatever route you take TO that Bachelor's degree is completely up to you. I am a California native, and when I went to my first undergraduate school, I had no idea how awesome our CC system is in CA... We are truly blessed. You should take advantage of that, complete 2 years and obtain what's known as a TAA/TAG (Transfer Admissions Agreement) to a 4-year school of your choice. All CSU and UC participate in that program in CA.

I believe I should have a 3.5 or high during all my prereq classes to have the chance to be accepted into a graduate school, to me this doesn’t seem very difficult. How do I increase my chances of being accepted? Is it fairly simple, meaning, as long as I finish my prereqs with the required GPA I am likely to be accepted?

It may sound easy, but a lot of the pre-requisite coursework can be quite challenging. I appreciate your hubris but make sure you keep an eye on that as it can lead you down a slippery slope of badness and then you're posting in WAMC before you know it! That said, in order to make you look more appealing, in addition to sterling academics you'll definitely want pharmacy experience. I'll segue into answering one of your other questions about the PTCE. Becoming a CphT is not difficult whatsoever, and I think the Mosby's Review is the single best book for brushing up on/learning the material for the PTCE. It's $30 well spent. That, combined with LoRs and a great GPA and you'll be fine.

Should I attempt to go for a B.S. in Chemistry Emphasis in Pharmaceutical Chemistry or something related to Pharmaceutical Chemistry before attending graduate school or should I just finish the requirements and transfer? I believe Pharm Chem is mostly for research and actually working for Pharmaceutical companies. What’s the salary for someone working in those companies, bls.gov does not provide data for such jobs.

I think you should definitely complete a BS/BA before trying to get into an SoP in California. Like I said before, while you CAN get into an SoP without one in CA, it'll make life much more difficult on you in the long run. You only need to choose a major that will knock out all the pre-requisites in addition to being interesting to you... Common choices are biology, chemistry, biochemistry, micro, and mcb. I think you're correct that "Pharmaceutical Chemistry" seems to be a leading undergraduate degree for a graduate level program, but I wouldn't let that dissuade you. I can't really help with the salary there, I don't know anyone who works in industry with such a degree (But I am sure someone here does).

What standardized tests, licenses, etc other than the PCAT would I have to pass?

For what exactly?

What is the difference between a hospital job and a standard retail pharmacist? Which has more potential for growth?

Clinical pharmacy offers more potential for growth. Retail positions are very rote and monotonous, and having worked in both (currently in fact), they are like night and day. Yes, the "job" is basically the same, but the level of pt interaction and the way you do your job vary drastically. Without question, a hospital setting offers you much more in the way of growth than working at CVS or Rong-Aid.

What internships, experience etc, or other things should I have?

For what, to get into Pharmacy school? Most schools want to see at least that you've been IN a pharmacy and have "shadowed" a Pharmacist throughout a few days to see if, indeed, you LIKE pharmacy. It's certainly not for everyone, and many a student who has loved the idea of Pharmacy has had their mind changed swiftly by actually working in a Pharmacy. You'll also want strong other extra-curriculars, and you'll want to try to get some leadership experience in your undergraduate time. Remember, the leader of one club is way better than footsoldier in 5.

Finally, as far as pre-requisites for PHARMACY SCHOOL go, they're almost completely standard in California. For basically every SoP here, you'll want at the bare minimum:

one year of gen chem w/ labs
one year of gen bio w/ labs
one year of ochem w/ labs
one year of physics (At least one term)
one year of calculus (8 qtr/6sem credits)

then your usual macro/micro econ, psychology, etc.

Without much variance, that's what you'll need for every SoP in California. Granted, some schools, USC in particular, require a little bit more too (Like an MCB course, and a mammalion physio course), so if you're set on USC, you'll want to make sure you knock those out in undergrad.

Now, to get INTO the undergraduate portion of those schools, that's a whole other ball of wax and is a major pain. But, your academic adviser can be of great assistance there - Use him/her often.

That was a long post. LOL... Hope I helped.