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Shadowing an OD at a retail chain
Started by RLK
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RLK said:
i shadowed at walmart last semester. i simply walked in and asked the optometrist if i could shadow him for a day. at the end of that day, he offered to let me observe on a more regular basis (1-2 times/week). i eventually shadowed enough that he felt comfortable writing my evaluation form.
i went with my family members and friends to their eye exams at america's best and pearl vision. although i've never officially shadowed there, i went enough to kinda get the gist of how those practices operate.
i'm guessing that you've shadowed an OD in a private practice before. if not, you should. you'll definitely notice a difference in their practice after you sit through a few of the large chain optical exams.
scraders said:
Thanks a lot. That's some valuable information. I'm going to shadow my optometrist this wednesday. He has a private practice. I think after that I'll ask the optometrist at Wal-Mart. My optometrist is a man and the optometrist at Wal-Mart is a woman. I think this will be good too, because I was hoping to shadow a woman and a man. 👍
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I shadowed an optometrist at Costco. It was very interesting. The guy ran the whole practice himself. He was the receptionist, the OD, did all the tests before the exam, etc. He said that he was in the business of healthy eyes. If he ever came across a complicated case, he would refer the patient to another doctor. He seldom did dilations. It showed me that even a person who doesnt want to deal with personnel, and with the hassle of owning a business, can still make a good living as an optometrist.
Is anyone here work in a retail eye chain like lenscrafters, visionworks, pearl vision, or even wal mart? I am just wondering if you can use the experience from there like in the lab or as eyewear consultant for "shadow hours" for optometry schools..
I'm not sure how working in the lab or picking out frames would qualify as shadowing the doctor. I think the whole purpose of shadowing is that you sit in with the doc and follow him/her around.
I worked at a Pearle for two years. I had been seeing the OD there for 10 years or so, so it wasn't hard for me to get a job. No, it isn't shadowing. Basically my entire extended family has been seeing him for years so I was able to shadow during their appointments, but I didn't get a whole lot of shadowing experience. I worked in the optical for most of that time, but also worked in the dr's office a little too. It's a franchise so it's a little different from a corporate location but it was enough for me to decide that I'm not a huge fan of working for a corporate location. Not that I'm trying to turn this into another war (God help me) but I'm just saying...
The application for some schools specifically says to exclude any hours as a paid employee. As someone else replied, if you are back making glasses or picking out frames, you aren't actually "shadowing" anybody. The point is to see what your future profession will be like... and to make sure you like what you see.
But but how would the optometry school know whether it is paid or voluntary if you get the franchise or private doctor associate with the retail chains to give you a recommendation? The doctors could say yes he was with me blah blah on the recommendation form, right?
True,
However I do think that there is some importance in working "behind the scenes" at an optometry practice. You need to know what your staff are doing in order to make sure they're doing it correctly. It gives you an idea of how you would like your own practice run.
I completely agree that shadowing an OD is the best thing to do, however it will only strengthen your application if you understand every aspect of a practice, and not just working with patients. I've meet many optometrists out of school that are completely competent at their jobs, however have never seen how a business was run until their last year of school... not exactly a lot of time to make sure you're familiar with everything.
However I do think that there is some importance in working "behind the scenes" at an optometry practice. You need to know what your staff are doing in order to make sure they're doing it correctly. It gives you an idea of how you would like your own practice run.
I completely agree that shadowing an OD is the best thing to do, however it will only strengthen your application if you understand every aspect of a practice, and not just working with patients. I've meet many optometrists out of school that are completely competent at their jobs, however have never seen how a business was run until their last year of school... not exactly a lot of time to make sure you're familiar with everything.
hahaha but where's the ethics in that? I'd stay away from lying on your application...
But but how would the optometry school know whether it is paid or voluntary if you get the franchise or private doctor associate with the retail chains to give you a recommendation? The doctors could say yes he was with me blah blah on the recommendation form, right?
Well done, optometrist. You have officially showed this student the ways of ****ty, unprofessional healthcare. With this explanation, I view this OD as someone who wouldn't give their patients the time of day let alone respectable care.
If by complicated case, you mean doing referrals for refractive surgery, glaucoma, etc., then that's just fine... But if by complicated case, you mean "oh I might actually have to research what this patient has... that means time and effort...", then you should find another OD to admire.
Doesn't want to deal with personnel? Are you kidding me?
I bet this OD's favourite word is "next".
ZING
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But but how would the optometry school know whether it is paid or voluntary if you get the franchise or private doctor associate with the retail chains to give you a recommendation? The doctors could say yes he was with me blah blah on the recommendation form, right?
Wow. 😱
Well first, if that doctor is willing to sign off that you were shadowing them when you were in fact working, he/she is unethical and is setting a poor example for you. Second, if you are turning that application in, you are knowingly lying to the admissions committee. If that were found out, I'm going to guess your chances of getting in would be slim to none. If you would rather lie than do 30 hours (or however much other schools require) of observation that will be to YOUR benefit so that you know you are going into the right profession... wow. Based on your posting history, you are interested in both dentistry and optometry. Shadowing is exactly what you need to do to figure out what career suits you most.
Finally, keep in mind that there could very well be a member of an admissions committee reading this forum. You are never as anonymous as you think you are.
Well there are other professions that I am interested in but that is beside the point. I only started thinking about optometry because of my current job. Now, my manager who does lurk here ended up in a different field than optometry but he would have used the opto's recommendations to try for optometry school had he not gotten in in his chosen field this year. Of course, I will try to get insight into the franchise's doctors perspectives on things as I already do somewhat these days but don't you think it would be helpful to go to them then some unknown doctor somewhere who may or may not right me a recommendation?
You are in school so you had to go through with the interview cycle. I don't think the admission committee is looking people who have some idea of what optometrists do and the feel for the profession they are willing to go for $100k debt.
I'm not sure what this sentence means. What I am telling you is that there are adcom members who read this site. You don't want your first impression to be of someone who lied on their application. Learn about the profession however you see fit, but don't compromise your morals to do so.
the sentence came out wrong. Seriously, how much in depth can one go shadowing for 30 hours????
And how is it lying to get letters from the optoms you know? It is easy for your to make it an ethical issue since you are past the process to get into optometry school..
But but how would the optometry school know whether it is paid or voluntary if you get the franchise or private doctor associate with the retail chains to give you a recommendation? The doctors could say yes he was with me blah blah on the recommendation form, right?
everyone does this! i'm only in high school right now, but two of my cousins are in optometry school and they both made up the "volunteer" part, and so did most of their class!
many people lie about their hours of volunteering! 30 hours is too much! 1 hour is the max anyone should have to volunteer!
It isn't lying to ask for a letter from an OD you know - it is lying to say that you shadowed an OD for 30 hours when you actually didn't. My sense of ethics did not abandon me while applying to optometry school - yours shouldn't either.
Did you have an admissions requirement to do more than 3-4 hours?
I have to admit I'm really shocked at how flippantly some people view falsifying information on an application. (Not talking to you jefguth...)
No specific requirements at ICO per say...just that you should have done something. I have to agree about falsifying application information, but could I ever tell you stories about people that have...
For instance, while I was applying to OD school a person I was knew was in the application cycle for med school. One school specifically required something ridiculous like a LOR from a physics prof, and this person hadn't taken physics in 5 years or more. How was this accomplished? Copy of the University website at another URL, with a false email address based on that URL, with a LOR written on stolen letterhead, using the email address from the false/duplicate website.😱😱😱
Shadowing should be a case to case scenario. I've worked in optical for 8 years now. I'm also an optician. So, NO, I'm not going to "shadow".
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Shadowing is a requirement to apply at some schools. If you have a strong feeling that you should not have to shadow, you shouldn't apply at those schools. Regardless of how much you already think you know, it would still be falsifying records to say that you shadowed an OD when you didn't. (Especially if the application specifically says "Paid hours DO NOT count.")
Last point - and I can't stress this enough - there ARE admissions committee members reading this site. It really isn't that hard to figure out who people are based on the limited posts they have on this site. I'd be careful about being so brazen in saying you intend to not complete an admissions requirement.
I suggest that these people contact the admissions department at the school they wish to attend, particularly if there is a shadowing requirement.
In general, the point of shadowing is to ensure that the candidate really understands optometry and the profession and what they are getting into. I think that an optician who has 8 years experience in the field, provided that all 8 are not at one location has more than enough experience in the field to understand what they are getting into and I believe that even the strictest of admissions committees would not be so rigid in a case like this.
Of course, honesty is the best policy*in this case. Contact the schools.
wow! so the person basically
1) created a fake duplicate website
2) created a fake email
3) stole a letterhead
all to impersonate a physics prof! as bad as it sounds, i've head the same thing for a number of students who applied to dental and MD schools as well
(although they did not go so far).... most would lie about their hours of volunteering (ie. they would volunteer at a hospital for 2 hours for 2 days, and then write down that they volunteered for 60 hours over a month... they would also lie about their job shadowing hours)
How the heck are the admissions committee going to dissect which person posts what ?
In fact, I feel so confident that I'll just say that I will make up my shadowing hours.
Yes, Yes, and Yes. This person applied to and was accepted to med school, but not the one with the forged LOR.
Do whatever you feel is right. Best of luck in the application cycle.
Thanks...and I said what I said above to make a point which I am most likely not going to apply.
from what someone said earlier, I personally do not believe admissions committee read these optometry posts. These people have so much work and other things to look after i really think they couldn't care less one way or the other with the garbage that gets posted on these sites. Quite frankly, some of these posts are so immature and childish like; the committee in OD schools really has time for this crap?
actually, in one of the optometry schools, some of the professors were reading the comments (only because some brown nosed students wanted to kiss the profs butts and let them know)... so basically, staff usually only knows when students bring it to their attention
If 30 hours of watching optometry appointments is boring, why would you think that the profession is for you. 30 hours is only 4 days, and that is not very long for someone to decide it is what they want to do for the rest of their life.
I have a really good relationship with the doctor that I shadowed and he taught me how to use the slit lamp, do contact lens checks, refect ect and then let me practice, patient willing. Not only did I enjoy doing this and learn about the job, it give me alot of material to discuss at my interviews. With a positive attitude and a willing Optometrist shadowing doesn't have to be a chore.
Also I have worked as a optician for more than a year, and I understand that part of things. That being said, it is completely different from what a doctor sees daily.
I have a really good relationship with the doctor that I shadowed and he taught me how to use the slit lamp, do contact lens checks, refect ect and then let me practice, patient willing. Not only did I enjoy doing this and learn about the job, it give me alot of material to discuss at my interviews. With a positive attitude and a willing Optometrist shadowing doesn't have to be a chore.
Also I have worked as a optician for more than a year, and I understand that part of things. That being said, it is completely different from what a doctor sees daily.
As to what I said....I'm an opthalmic tech and optician. I've been licensed etc in my state and have served over 1000+ hours in the room with the OD. I think I understand the profession. I've also contacted the schools in which I'm looking at applying and know which ones REQUIRE it. Two of the three told me that my application would already suggest that I know what being an OD Is all about. So I'm confident in that. If I feel the need to apply to a school that I'm not thinking about at the moment....I WON'T LIE about my hours. BUT.......like I said, the schools in which I'm interested in do not require it. 🙂
Agreed, if you can't spend less than a week making sure you want to be an OD you are a goober.
Classic shlocktometry. This crap is abhorrent. Exactly the type of stereotype that proves commercial optometry's destructive influence. This guy isn't a doctor, he is a overpaid tech.
If the doc can't honestly treat the patient he/she must do what is most helpful for the patient, which in this case is referring the problem to some one else. Theres nothing wrong with that.
There is a problem. The patient goes away thinking an OD only does "healthy eyes" and probably gets referred to an OMD for everything else. This stuff should be referred to another OD if non-surgical but I doubt that happens.
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it is still the right thing to do
Maybe he knows the OMD or something like that...I don't think OD's would refer patient's to OMD's, knowing that the other OD can help treat the patient. But I guess the patient is satisfied at the end of the day.
Also, the OD is actually hurting himself by saying that he only does healthy eyes...I don't understand why though. Its actually quite illogical. You got school for 4 yrs and do not maximize your productivity, even though you were trained to do so.
This thread is absoulutely sickening...
why are there so many students who think that they don't need to know the profession to make it a sound decsion? maybe thats why optometry is "yearning for respect" so to speak like some of the other posts in this forum.
Honestly, when I was interested in the profession I was like "oh hey 9-5 perscribing glasses and contacts making 100,000 a year and no extra residency 32+ hrs in a hospital...hell yea" but when I started working for an OD in a small private practice who treats the widest scope of patients she possibly can from medical to "routine healthy eyes" to low vision rehab, to binocular vision disorders, basically everything but surgery, and to see her struggling to get a name with opthamologists but not caring because at the end of the day shes making a difference with those that reconize the fact that she doesnt "have to refer out", yea that changed my view and led me to my passion.
HOWEVER, I know many students won't have this...however I feel many students should see all aspects of the field so we can change this "attidude" and have less posts like this. Come on you're really going to be happy coming into a field you dont have to shadow at least 30 hours? come on...thats less than a regular work week, why is that boring? if your bored after 30 hours go somewhere else, we don't need you. Nor do we need this attitude. Or the other people thinking this of optometry as an alternative to other professional schools. Come on people...grow up.
why are there so many students who think that they don't need to know the profession to make it a sound decsion? maybe thats why optometry is "yearning for respect" so to speak like some of the other posts in this forum.
Honestly, when I was interested in the profession I was like "oh hey 9-5 perscribing glasses and contacts making 100,000 a year and no extra residency 32+ hrs in a hospital...hell yea" but when I started working for an OD in a small private practice who treats the widest scope of patients she possibly can from medical to "routine healthy eyes" to low vision rehab, to binocular vision disorders, basically everything but surgery, and to see her struggling to get a name with opthamologists but not caring because at the end of the day shes making a difference with those that reconize the fact that she doesnt "have to refer out", yea that changed my view and led me to my passion.
HOWEVER, I know many students won't have this...however I feel many students should see all aspects of the field so we can change this "attidude" and have less posts like this. Come on you're really going to be happy coming into a field you dont have to shadow at least 30 hours? come on...thats less than a regular work week, why is that boring? if your bored after 30 hours go somewhere else, we don't need you. Nor do we need this attitude. Or the other people thinking this of optometry as an alternative to other professional schools. Come on people...grow up.
On another note, I wish the optometry schools admissions did read these threads because everyday there is someone posting something more and more lazy sounding and/or sickening, and these are the "hopeful canidates". Maybe we just need more of the really qualified heart felt opt futures to write more, and u know what they probably don't have to because they don't need advice from forums like this because they figure it out on their own.
be careful what you wish for 🙂 i happen to know that schools DO read these threads (along with looking at facebook/myspace accounts of potential students) just throwing that out there for all those who may or may not believe in freedom of speech..... nothing is safe until you have that od degree in your hands
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