Should Canada go entry level PharmD?

[Requiem]

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A lot of discussion regarding this topic up north. UoT (one of the pioneering pharmacy schools in Canada, also one of the two schools offering a post graduate PharmD at the moment), has recently upped the entrance requirements to pharmacy school to essentially a 2+4 program but it is still a B.Sc. Pharm.

I'd like to hear discussion and your thoughts on whether or not this is necessary.

My idea is that entry level PharmD is superfluous and not going to fill any niche. A retail pharmacist does not need to go to school for 6 years to work at Shopper's Drug Mart. I know the requirements of practicing in community, and they do not involve the depth required of a PharmD.

If anything, furthering education for retail pharmacists should include a B.Sc. Pharm / MBA option. This would be much more relevant for those working in community.

For those who wish to be staff hospital pharmacists, again I feel a B.Sc. Pharm is more than sufficient. You can handle dosing antibiotics, troughs, DI questions, etc., with that knowledge.

For those who wish to try to pioneer more clinical avenues and "specialty" roles, pursuing further education (a la PharmD/residency) makes complete sense. This is where it is a relevant and useful training.

 

[psychoandy]

Can you please explain what a BPharm curriculum consists/would consist of?

I just graduated from a 0-6 program, and even then there are a lot of areas that were not covered, the curriculum was somewhat rushed. And from what I understand about the former 5 year plan at my school, there was at least 1 semester less of therapeutics and something like only 2-3 clinical rotations to graduate, which IMO is not adequate. To play devil's advocate with myself though, there are a lot of garbage classes that could be cut out to compensate without taking away therapeutics time.

On another note, wouldn't we want to continually increase the standards to be a pharmacist? I am fairly certain that academic standards for incoming students are higher than when I started pharmacy school. Why not the best?

 

[deleted205891]

On another note, wouldn't we want to continually increase the standards to be a pharmacist? I am fairly certain that academic standards for incoming students are higher than when I started pharmacy school. Why not the best?

Because it requires extra tuition dollars, or in Canada's case, extra taxpayer dollars, for what may not be necessary for practice as a retail or hospital staff pharmacist.

 

[Medwell]

Because it requires extra tuition dollars, or in Canada's case, extra taxpayer dollars, for what may not be necessary for practice as a retail or hospital staff pharmacist.

Why, in Canada's case, is tuition dollars = taxpayer dollars? 😕

 

[pharmschooler]

Why, in Canada's case, is tuition dollars = taxpayer dollars? 😕

If people have to pay more for their education, they need to be reimbursed at higher amounts in the working world in order to pay the education off. This is ultimately passed on to the consumer...which in Canada's case, is the taxpayer. In the US' case, it's the insurance buyer (typically the worker, who pays by receiving a lower salary in exchange for insurance coverage).

I think, to find out whether it's a good idea, they should compare outcomes of BS pharm grads vs PharmD grads and see if lives and money are saved when PharmD grads staff instead of BS pharm grads. If not, the benefit to the public and pharmacy students might be questionable...

As to psychoandy's question regarding "Why not the best?", the best is not always reasonably cost efficient. You can probably engineer a car to last 100 years, but it would cost so much money that nobody would be able to buy it. When you look at the Law of Diminishing Marginal Returns, educating a pharmacist beyond a certain number of years makes little sense, economically.

 

[Its Z]

Yes, but how do you say PharmD in French, eh?

 

[type b pharmD]

Yes, but how do you say PharmD in French, eh?

Le PharmD , of course

 

[deleted205891]

Why, in Canada's case, is tuition dollars = taxpayer dollars? 😕

Isn't tuition either free or very cheap in Canada?

 

[pharmschooler]

Isn't tuition either free or very cheap in Canada?

Not that I know of...
http://www.pharmacy.ubc.ca/programs/degree-programs/PharmD/programs/tuition

(keep in mind, this rate is for a post-BScPharm PharmD)

Then again, maybe it's a little cheaper for some programs, especially at the undergrad level:
https://you.ubc.ca/ubc/vancouver/adding.ezc

 

[Pharmavixen]

Isn't tuition either free or very cheap in Canada?

The post-graduate pharmD program in Canada, a two-year full time program after completing your BscPHM is > $50,000 CDN (which is about the same as US $ these days).

The days of cheap tuition in Canada came to an end with fiscally conservative governments. I think it's still cheaper than US schools but not by much any more.

I also don't think you need a pharmD to work in retail.

 

[donttazemebro]

The post-graduate pharmD program in Canada, a two-year full time program after completing your BscPHM is > $50,000 CDN (which is about the same as US $ these days).

The days of cheap tuition in Canada came to an end with fiscally conservative governments. I think it's still cheaper than US schools but not by much any more.

I also don't think you need a pharmD to work in retail.

not really. my tuition for my chem undergrad is 5.5k/yr and pharmacy tuitions in both schools in my province are ~13k/yr. and as far as i remember alberta's pharmacy tuition was 8k/yr, dalhousie 9k, quebec 2k...

 

[Requiem]

not really. my tuition for my chem undergrad is 5.5k/yr and pharmacy tuitions in both schools in my province are ~13k/yr. and as far as i remember alberta's pharmacy tuition was 8k/yr, dalhousie 9k, quebec 2k...

Note she said POST-grad PharmD programs. You're describing a B.Sc.

The post grad programs here are incredibly expensive. Financially rarely worth it (e.g. most positions don't pay more for your pharmd, and if it does it would take quite some time to make that back).

 

[donttazemebro]

Note she said POST-grad PharmD programs. You're describing a B.Sc.

The post grad programs here are incredibly expensive. Financially rarely worth it (e.g. most positions don't pay more for your pharmd, and if it does it would take quite some time to make that back).

i dont see it. a canadian B.Sc pharm= US pharmD so that is a better comparison for tuition.

pharmD is only useful in canada if someone wants an easier time in the research field. this applies to ~5% of pharm students.

 

[aussiepharmer]

.

 

[Requiem]

i dont see it. a canadian B.Sc pharm= US pharmD so that is a better comparison for tuition.

pharmD is only useful in canada if someone wants an easier time in the research field. this applies to ~5% of pharm students.

Why would I compare a B.Sc. cost when we're discussing PharmD's in Canada? I feel like you're very confused.

Also, PharmD's in Canada are used for academia primarily, followed by clinical work secondly. There is very little primary research conducted by PharmD's. Anyway, not sure why you're discussing this.