Should community be renamed "The Whiny Former PT/OT Forum"?

[Taylor355]

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Parting editorial:

While comparing posts in other communities on this website, I do not see nearly the amount of taunting and belittling by other professional students as I read from this group.

For those thinking of becoming a PT or OT, I seriously hope you look for insight into the rehabilitation professions from elsewhere (rehabedge.com, myphysicaltherapyspace.com, etc.). This forum does not represent much other than a quite disgruntled view...

Good luck.

 

[kappachinokid]

yea all the negative is usually coming from doctorjay..he loves doing that

 

[PT2MD]

If by disgruntled you mean "other", then yes. Otherwise I simply think you see more folks who are considering transitioning from PT to another profession. I happened on to this forum while researching the MD/DO degree.

It's ironic that in pursuing this transition and after doing all this research into becoming a physician, I may actually remain a physical therapist. I think it's ok to be critical of one's profession in healthy doses. Sorry to see you leaving, but I think this forum has some pretty good discussions. You don't see many good clinical or professional discussions because it is a student-oriented forum. Best of luck.

 

[delicatefade]

Well, you have to consider the board. This is the StudentDoctor network. Most everyone here is in medical school or beyond, or is considering the same. Those of us who moved on did so for a reason. That doesn't mean the field is not for anyone.

 

[PT2MD]

Parting editorial:

While comparing posts in other communities on this website, I do not see nearly the amount of taunting and belittling by other professional students as I read from this group.

For those thinking of becoming a PT or OT, I seriously hope you look for insight into the rehabilitation professions from elsewhere (rehabedge.com, myphysicaltherapyspace.com, etc.). This forum does not represent much other than a quite disgruntled view...

Good luck.

Um, my friend, I went to rehabedge.com and was immediately faced with this post titled: "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore". You don't get much more whiny than that. There are many posts like it. The point is whining is everywhere. Incidently, I have signed up on this forum and look forward to seeing more of the exchanges that take place. Thanks for the referral.

http://physicaltherapy.rehabedge.com/m.aspx?m=16832

 

[Bad0 Fish0]

Um, my friend, I went to rehabedge.com and was immediately faced with this post titled: "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore". You don't get much more whiny than that. There are many posts like it. The point is whining is everywhere. Incidently, I have signed up on this forum and look forward to seeing more of the exchanges that take place. Thanks for the referral.

http://physicaltherapy.rehabedge.com/m.aspx?m=16832

hmm.. I've been on that forum for quite some time now and if my memory serves me correctly, that thread is about 2 years old. You dug it up?? lol

p.s. OP since had a change of heart, got a new promotion, etc.

 

[PT2MD]

Last post was 11/3/07 and is on the front page of the forum.😉 May be old news but is the sixth post from the top. My point was that the "whining" the OP talks about occurs on every forum, including SDN. Check all forums from premed through residency and you'll find it.

In fact, if whining bothers you, you may want to avoid the internet entirely. The OP simply needs to be aware others have opinions and there's no need to get knickers in a twist over them. 👍

 

[Bad0 Fish0]

Oh okay, I only looked at the general forum, but yeah I see that someone bumped it up.

And true, if you can't handle others' opinions, you probably shouldn't be on the internet. But I see where OP is coming from, it can get kinda discouraging when you're seeing nothing but negative things be said about your chosen career and the investment you made in it. In fact, I made a post not long ago entitled "discouraged due to internet research & forums" or something to that affect.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I don't feel that bad for the OP. One, I'm an osteopathic medical student who will hopefully one day be a legal and professional equivalent of an MD. Tons of people come on these forum and bash DO's for this or that reason. Second, I go to LECOM which for some reason is one of the most looked down upon DO schools in the country, even more so sometimes than the recently opened up schools. Sorry, but I could care less that a few PTs gone Medical weren't fired up about their former profession. I'm gonna be 10 more years in and >250K in debt, and some people either have never heard of a DO, think less of DOs, or whatever . . . Sorry, but the general public usually thinks pretty highly when they think PT, but 9 out of 10 people are like "what's a DO, don't they crack backs?"

 

[PT2MD]

Oh okay, I only looked at the general forum, but yeah I see that someone bumped it up.

And true, if you can't handle others' opinions, you probably shouldn't be on the internet. But I see where OP is coming from, it can get kinda discouraging when you're seeing nothing but negative things be said about your chosen career and the investment you made in it. In fact, I made a post not long ago entitled "discouraged due to internet research & forums" or something to that affect.

I understand completely. PT has some real issues to deal with. But as Buckeye put it, physicians and other health care providers have their mountains to climb as well. Talk to RNs, OD, PharmD, DDS etc and they'll give you a list of things to complain about as well. I think it's ok to discuss what's good and bad about your profession without getting too frustrated.

We are in a great profession and opinions on a forum doesn't change that. 👍

 

[delicatefade]

That thread was hilarious.

"If he wants stupid ultrasound on a chronic back...."

How many times has that happened to one of us????

 

[DOctorJay]

yea all the negative is usually coming from doctorjay..he loves doing that

thanks for the shout out! I don't think my posts are as negative as they are realistic. people considering PT need to really have an understanding of the field before jumping in or they may be upset. I still think it's a fantastic field but for the right person. the same goes for medicine. health care isn't what it used to be and it is very important for people to understand all options available to them if they're set on a health care career. this is the only motivation for my posts.

welcome to the forum kappachinokid!

J

 

[delicatefade]

It does seem that the # of bitter PT's has been directly proportional to the length and cost of their schooling. It used to be a pretty sweet gig when you could do a BSPT and marginally so when you could do the 3+3 for an MSPT or MPT.

I still remember when I was shadowing PT's before I even got into school and there was a girl who had just graduated with her BSPT and was SOOOOO mad because the very next class graduated with an MSPT and absolutely no change to the curriculum.

When the APTA keeps pushing things like this and schools do things like that to people, no wonder they get bitter.

 

[Bad0 Fish0]

and marginally so when you could do the 3+3 for an MSPT or MPT.

You still can, that's how my DPT program works. It's called the "advanced undergraduate entry option".. if you meet all the requirements, have the pre-reqs, and have at least a 3.5 gpa, you can apply - that's what I did. You begin the program what would be your senior year of college and after the first 2 semesters of the program (end of your senior year) you get a BS in Pre-Professional Health Sciences. Complete the program and get your DPT. So in 5.5yrs, it can be done.

 

[delicatefade]

Well, that would certainly be a program to look into to keep debt at a minimum.

But does anyone find this type of thing absurd???

I mean, I think it's ridiculous enough that I have a master's degree but no bachelor's degree. How can the APTA consider the DPT a serious degree when it can be completed in 5.5 years?

 

[PT2MD]

Because in the end we're all still PT's and the academic programs don't change our clinical responsibilities. I don't want to strike up the ol'DPT debate again, but I think it's fine that your school does that Bad Fish.

 

[ericdopt]

You still can, that's how my DPT program works. It's called the "advanced undergraduate entry option".. if you meet all the requirements, have the pre-reqs, and have at least a 3.5 gpa, you can apply - that's what I did. You begin the program what would be your senior year of college and after the first 2 semesters of the program (end of your senior year) you get a BS in Pre-Professional Health Sciences. Complete the program and get your DPT. So in 5.5yrs, it can be done.

It's why I decided to go to medical school. I was tired of the APTA's crap. I have a BS and when I figure it out, I actually did 2.5 years of PT education. DPT's only get 1 more year and don't have to defend a thesis. Even I did a "research project". Sorry, people who think DPT is a good thing have drunk the kool-aid.

 

[truthseeker]

Well, that would certainly be a program to look into to keep debt at a minimum.

But does anyone find this type of thing absurd???

I mean, I think it's ridiculous enough that I have a master's degree but no bachelor's degree. How can the APTA consider the DPT a serious degree when it can be completed in 5.5 years?

UMKC (University of Missouri, Kansas City) used to do a similar thing with their medical school.

 

[truthseeker]

It's why I decided to go to medical school. I was tired of the APTA's crap. I have a BS and when I figure it out, I actually did 2.5 years of PT education. DPT's only get 1 more year and don't have to defend a thesis. Even I did a "research project". Sorry, people who think DPT is a good thing have drunk the kool-aid.

You sound like a Whiny former PT. what will your medical school thesis be? OH,wait, there isn't one. You may be listed as an author, but the credit will go to your professor. You did not take 2.5 years of PT school unless you were in a clinical program where you took anatomy lab, biomechanics, clinical evaluation classes, neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, exercise physiology, classes on systemic diseases that mimic or can overlap with neuromusculoskeletal diagnoses etc . . . Get over yourself.

 

[ADUB]

I agree with you truthseeker. Most medical schools dont require theses but MD students can do research if wanted, just as PT students can - and many do!

Plus, look at Howard university - they still have a 6 year BS/MD program.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Parting editorial:

While comparing posts in other communities on this website, I do not see nearly the amount of taunting and belittling by other professional students as I read from this group.

For those thinking of becoming a PT or OT, I seriously hope you look for insight into the rehabilitation professions from elsewhere (rehabedge.com, myphysicaltherapyspace.com, etc.). This forum does not represent much other than a quite disgruntled view...

Good luck.

As mentioned above...this site is studentDOCTORnet.......be prepared to face reality...better on the forum...than in real life...

 

[PT2MD]

It's always funny to see people complain about whining....by whining.

 

[Elbrus]

So, I am curious.

• 1. What brings former PTs back to read and post in the DPT/OTD community? (I'm thinking maybe there is something you all possibly enjoyed or found interesting about PT and want to stick around.)
  2. What can you teach PTs, or teach MDs/DOs etc. from your dual perspective?
  3. How do you see things changing for these professions (especially looking at what is happening within US healthcare, and the US economy in general?)

Thanks.

 

[Mightyhealthy]

So, I am curious.

• 1. What brings former PTs back to read and post in the DPT/OTD community? (I'm thinking maybe there is something you all possibly enjoyed or found interesting about PT and want to stick around.)
  2. What can you teach PTs, or teach MDs/DOs etc. from your dual perspective?
  3. How do you see things changing for these professions (especially looking at what is happening within US healthcare, and the US economy in general?)

Thanks.

as far as somebody who wants to work with athletes and is happy with 60,000 a year... what is the next closest thing in the medical field to physical therapy? just in case you get tired of the same old same old

 

[ericdopt]

You sound like a Whiny former PT. what will your medical school thesis be? OH,wait, there isn't one. You may be listed as an author, but the credit will go to your professor. You did not take 2.5 years of PT school unless you were in a clinical program where you took anatomy lab, biomechanics, clinical evaluation classes, neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, exercise physiology, classes on systemic diseases that mimic or can overlap with neuromusculoskeletal diagnoses etc . . . Get over yourself.

1. "Whiny"..no. Just trying to give perspective. Whiny would mean I would complain about what I did and still do as a PT.

2. I didn't take 2.5 years to graduate? Hmm, let's see.. I went straight through from the summer of my Soph year to my senior year. Summer counts as 1/2 year due to the accelerated pace. And yes, I did have all those classes you described. How else could I be a PT if I didn't take those classes?

3. No, medicine does not defend a thesis, very true. That wasn't my point. My point being I believe the added extra years makes huge demands on the next crop of PT's. Many people are not willing to go 5-7 years for a PT degree considering the debt they will rack up. I believe the best thing to do is a master's degree, then a 1 year residency in the specialty of your choice.



And to answer another question from another post, we (former and current PT's in other professions) come here to answer questions and dispel rumors and myth about the real world of PT you won't find from your professor's.

 

[ericdopt]

as far as somebody who wants to work with athletes and is happy with 60,000 a year... what is the next closest thing in the medical field to physical therapy? just in case you get tired of the same old same old

Most PT's will never work with athletes. That job is usually the realm of the ATC. It is done, obviously, but not the majority of PT's. Think medicare, post-op, nursing homes. "Sports medicine", meaning anything not related to a nursing home. I still don't know what exaclty that term means even after 18 years.

 

[ericdopt]

I agree with you truthseeker. Most medical schools dont require theses but MD students can do research if wanted, just as PT students can - and many do!

Plus, look at Howard university - they still have a 6 year BS/MD program.

I don't know 1 PT who does research. It is necessary, but I don't know anyone who does it.

The 6 year BS/MD programs are a dying breed. I think Northwestern Univ. tried it in the early '90's and I think discontinued it, although I'm unsure.

 

[jesspt]

I don't know 1 PT who does research. It is necessary, but I don't know anyone who does it.

I'm assuming that you mean you don't personally know any PTs who do research, as obviously there a great number of them who contribute to the scientific literature.

Most PT's will never work with athletes. That job is usually the realm of the ATC. It is done, obviously, but not the majority of PT's. Think medicare, post-op, nursing homes.

This may be techinically true, but that may have as much to do with the practice setting most PTs choose. I have worked at several facilities where athletes (Jr. High, High School, College, Weekend Warrior) made up a significant portion of the patient population. I've never had a hard time getting athletes in to my clinic.

 

[PT2MD]

Most PT's will never work with athletes. That job is usually the realm of the ATC. It is done, obviously, but not the majority of PT's. Think medicare, post-op, nursing homes. "Sports medicine", meaning anything not related to a nursing home. I still don't know what exaclty that term means even after 18 years.

Have to partially disagree with you on this one Eric. Nearly my entire afternoon caseload is comprised of high school and college athletes and isn't an exception. Many outpatient PT clinics see a high volume of athletes. Also there are many many PT's involved in research (although not enough as there should be).

I think this thread is showing signs of serious deterioration and is inflammatory to begin with. Probably best to agree that the career is what you make of it.

 

[ONstudentPT]

Ok I am a new grad and I justed wanted to clarify somethings about the whole money issue for those considering PT.

PT can be a good job and you can make good money!

How much money you will make will depend on a few things:

How much risk are you willing to take?
What kind of environment are you willing to work in?
How many hours are you willing to work?


Here are some options:

If you decide to open your own private clinic you can potentially make

over 120 000++

CONS:
-this option will have obvious risks of failure just like any other business
-possible long hours for the first few years

OR

you can work in home care making 50 dollars an hour or visit lets say 50 hours a week which is 120 000 a year... not bad?

CONS:
- poor working environment
- isolation

The potential of making 120 000 or more with a 20 000 dollar school investment for an MScPT(this is mostly for canada) degree at a public university = a pretty good investment


Other non money driven options:

comfortable job with good security and benifits and paid vacations at a hospital making around 55-75k

or working at an outpatient clinic as an employee making around 80-90k

 

[ericdopt]

Have to partially disagree with you on this one Eric. Nearly my entire afternoon caseload is comprised of high school and college athletes and isn't an exception. Many outpatient PT clinics see a high volume of athletes. Also there are many many PT's involved in research (although not enough as there should be).

I think this thread is showing signs of serious deterioration and is inflammatory to begin with. Probably best to agree that the career is what you make of it.

Agreed. By "athletes", I was using the collegiate/professional definition, but was obviously mistaken. Thanks for the correction.

Also, yes, there isn't enough research done in PT. And yes, that means I don't personally know of any.

Don't get me wrong, PT is awesome, but not for me anymore. I'm very glad I did it and am just trying to give others information that I wish I had before embarking on my current career.