should curent grad students effect your decision to enter the program?

[UhOh]

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[FreudianSlip7]

Well I have had the same experience and I would say that this could be looked in another way besides the one you mentioned.

If you attended interview A and students were super-tense and super stressed, it may be due to alot of variables, maybe it's just that time of year for their program, maybe they are stressed because of all the extra things they had to do for interview day as well, or maybe they have such an intense workload that they are being streched very thin and lack a good balance between school and personal life. Or there could simply be individual issues going on. The students at interview B may be more relax because they have more balance, feel more support in their program, or may be taking interview day as a bit of a break for them.

This is usually only one day, it is not fair in either situation to assume that this is indicative of better training or worse training, or that a bigger workload necessarily equals greater quality of training. I would say that this is why it's best to ask questions from the students and faculty, and look at the programs' statistical data, which gives you a greater sense of the program than just speculating from the students' external behaviors. I don't think that being relaxed or very intense are good indicators of workload and quality of training.

 

[Ollie123]

It can be any number of things, though its worth nothing I think individual differences in how people handle stress matter a lot more than how much work there actually is, so it could reflect that as much as it does the program workload.

There are people who live their lives in a constant state of freaking out over every little thing that needs to be done, and then there are people doing an absolutely inhuman amount of work but you'd never even know it. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle🙂 However, I think we have an over-representation of the former in this field, based off my limited experiences. I'd try and get a sense of what the actual accomplishments of the students look like upon graduation. You may have just come across a school that screens out the former category during interviews. If the students are coming out as reasonably accomplished, decent pub/presentation record, good experiences overall, good internship placement, job placement, etc. then I wouldn't worry about it.

Edit: Oh, but to answer your question, yes, its perfectly reasonable to consider the other grad students. They're a part of the grad school environment and you need an environment you can thrive in. Some people thrive in situations of high stress, others may shut down completely. Some may want to be competing with other students, others won't. Know yourself and absolutely take it into consideration when visiting schools.

 

[PamBeasLizLemo]

To be completely honest with you I think you're looking at the wrong thing. You should be looking at how HAPPY the grad students are with the school and their individual POI. Perhaps they were relaxed because they feel supported, prepared, and don't have to teach themselves how to do things (at some places.. you really DO have to learn by yourself with a prof not giving much direction). Both places I went to, the students seemed pretty relaxed. When I asked more about how stressful the program was etc they explained. School A was relaxed and happy etc because they professor was great. She prepared them, included them, and gave them assignments that were appropriate. They made friends with everyone in the program and it was a collaborative situation as opposed to really competitive situation. School B said that they work hard but they don't nearly have as much work as they thought they would going into graduate school. The student I stayed with told me that you come into grad school with these ideas about how difficult it will be and how much of a time commitment it is. However, the student made it perfectly clear you have time to relax. You have time to watch crappy tv. You have time to go out and have a beer. You just need to balance your time. When I look at people who are stressed like that.. I don't see it as reflexive on the school. I see it as those people being 1. Unprepared 2. Specific situation is stressful not the whole situation 3. That's just how they are. You have to ask questions ... you can't just assume that the school is a certain way just by observing it.

 

[Tyness]

I just had an interview experience like this as well. I will admit that the same thought crossed through my mind about the students not being worked enough. To add to it, the interview was at a professional school, which I have heard much skepticism about. However the students seemed to describe a larger work load, so now I do not know what to think because I have been accepted there. The other school I am considering was exactly the opposite. The students were very happy, but very stressed and working a lot. I am trying to figure out if this is good or bad.

 

[Eruca]

I come from a program where applicants might describe us as a social, relaxed, laid back group. And it's true. We are a social bunch who play as hard as we work. But read - we work! We get great training, we have great match rates to top-notch internship sites, publication records are good, and 2/5 of my class have F31 grants. There are a few who run around playing the "who looks most stressed & therefore is working the hardest game". We shake our heads at them and try to calm them down. Sometimes this posturing is due to anxiety, insecurity, or oftentimes to get attention. In the end, you have to be the one to be satisfied with your own accomplishments. Period.

To be honest, we're probably asking of you the converse of the questions you're asking of us. Is this person too-uptight? too competitive? not social enough? - to be a good fit for our program. We have to spend the next 1-5 years with you (depending on level of advancement). If you feel like you might not fit, then that could indeed be true. Look at the stats, listen to your gut, and make your decision based on where you can be both productive AND happy.

 

[mewantphd]

I recently attended an interview at which the current graduate students were very laid back and social. In this respect, the grad students at this particular program are in stark contrast to grad students that I have observed while attending other interviews (i.e., grad students at other interviews have been much more serious, have seemed like they had more work than they had time, etc.). While some interviewees may have been pleased to see more relaxed graduate students at this interview, I am concerned about this difference in terms of how these laid back students reflect on the program - as far as I've heard, graduate school is supposed to be super stressful and graduate students are supposed to be super stressed. Does it necessarilly mean that because the graduate students seem not-as-serious and not-as-stressed as grad students at other programs that the program does not give as much work/does not give students as much preperation compared with other graduate schools? How much should my decision about whether to attend the program be based on my perception of the current graduate students in the program?

Thank you in advance 🙂

Do you mind PMing me what school that was? As someone who works in a lab at a school ranked #1, I can say that the grad students appear beyond stressed... all the time. The amount of work they get done (in so little time) astounds me. Anyway, if you could let me know what school this was I would be really appreciative. I'm looking for a program where grad students don't hate their lives 🙂 This also seems to exist across the board at my university, not just in the clinical program. Grad students seem inherently unhappy and constantly stressed to the max.

*I understand that graduate school is inherently stressful, I'm not expecting it to be anything other than hard work. But the lab I work in right now is an outlier (I hope) and I'm looking for programs that are a bit more flexible.

 

[mewantphd]

I come from a program where applicants might describe us as a social, relaxed, laid back group. And it's true. We are a social bunch who play as hard as we work. But read - we work! We get great training, we have great match rates to top-notch internship sites, publication records are good, and 2/5 of my class have F31 grants. There are a few who run around playing the "who's looks most stressed & therefore is working the hardest game". We shake our heads at them and try to calm them down. Sometimes this posturing is due to anxiety, insecurity, or oftentimes to get attention. In the end, you have to be the one to be satisfied with your own accomplishments. Period.

To be honest, we're probably asking of you the converse of the questions you're asking of us. Is this person too-uptight? too competitive? not social enough? - to be a good fit for our program. We have to spend the next 1-5 years with you (depending on level of advancement). If you feel like you might not fit, then that could indeed be true. Look at the stats, listen to your gut, and make your decision based on where you can be both productive AND happy.

Is there any way you could pm me with info about your program? I'm looking for programs where grad students are actually happy (as well as working hard) 🙂

 

[deleted190534]

I come from a program where applicants might describe us as a social, relaxed, laid back group. And it's true. We are a social bunch who play as hard as we work. But read - we work! We get great training, we have great match rates to top-notch internship sites, publication records are good, and 2/5 of my class have F31 grants. There are a few who run around playing the "who's looks most stressed & therefore is working the hardest game". We shake our heads at them and try to calm them down. Sometimes this posturing is due to anxiety, insecurity, or oftentimes to get attention. In the end, you have to be the one to be satisfied with your own accomplishments. Period.

To be honest, we're probably asking of you the converse of the questions you're asking of us. Is this person too-uptight? too competitive? not social enough? - to be a good fit for our program. We have to spend the next 1-5 years with you (depending on level of advancement). If you feel like you might not fit, then that could indeed be true. Look at the stats, listen to your gut, and make your decision based on where you can be both productive AND happy.

Ditto!! It's a GOOD thing for the students to be happy/relaxed, & I completely agree with Eruca that we're often looking for the same in applicants. (In that sense, maybe certain programs CREATE a happy/laid back group by hand picking them.)

 

[LM02]

There are a few who run around playing the "who's looks most stressed & therefore is working the hardest game". We shake our heads at them and try to calm them down. Sometimes this posturing is due to anxiety, insecurity, or oftentimes to get attention.

Ha! This is SO true. I went to a similar program, where people were very accomplished but also maintained a good work/life balance. The one person in my cohort who came in playing the "I'm more stressed than you game" referenced above had a complete meltdown and dropped out of the program after the first year. The rest of us? Stayed and thrived, and found great research careers for ourselves. In fact, of the students who remained in my cohort, we are all currently working in academic settings.

I really wouldn't worry if students seem too well-adjusted. That should be the least of your problems!

 

[blindchaos]

Just to echo what others have said...I think it is impossible to know or accurately assess the preparation provided/work load of a program simply by looking at the grad students you meet for the reasons several people have mentioned above. Students handle stress differently, maybe you caught Student X on an especially good day (laid back) or an especially bad day (stressed to extreme), maybe interview day added to the stress (at some schools, students do a lot of the planning) or maybe it decreased stress (day off). Also keep in mind you are likely only seeing a fraction of the students in the program so you may have a skewed sample (especially if you interviewed on internship Match Day 😛)

Before I got into grad school, I heard the same stories about how grad school was insanely stressful and you're overwork every day of every year. I have not felt that way thus far at all. I'm definitely busier than undergrad but I'm really enjoying it and I do not feel especially stressed or overwhelmed. At the same time, there are students in my program who feel the exact opposite way. Some of the difference is attributed to how we individually handle stress, some of it is attributed to the work load we are accustomed to and the amount of work load we like (today I was informed that I was nuts because I intentionally overloaded by 7 credit hours and I actually really like my schedule). I much prefer to be busy and have a full schedule, that's just how I work best.

So...just keep in mind that there could be (and likely are) MANY reasons why the students you see at School Y appear to be laid back and students you see at School Z appear very stressed. Way too many reasons to be able to assess the preparation and support the school offers! 🙂 I guess...just take it all with a grain of salt!