Should he switch from DO to MD

[DO/MBA]

My friend is on the east coast and is thinking of transfering to an MD school. Should he do it? Then please post why he should or shouldn't. He will not loose any time by switching.

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[Doctora Foxy]

I think as an MD he'll have more options in the future. The problem is that it is hard to transfer--is he sure he'll be able to? Because he'll need a letter of rec from the dean at the DO school, and will appear to be a sellout and a liar to the DO philosophy, since he wishes to switch. If his transfer application is denied by the MD school, he will earn a bad rep at his DO school, which could hurt him in the future when gaining LORs for residency placement.

Usually people transfer due to a family illness or to be closer to a spouse. I think it can be difficult to transfer for other reasons.

 

[DO/MBA]

The offer is on the table. He has a few weeks to decide.

 

[Kadyra]

I thought MD schools only accepted transfers from LCME-medical schools. I have seen the list and only MD schools from the US and Canada are on it. Is your friend that unhappy in DO school that he would want to transfer?

 

[johnM]

I would have the same concern as Foxy, that he wouldn't want to alienate himself by telling his DO school that he wants to leave. If there is an "offer on the table," then that's a different story, but I'm a little skeptical about this. Do you mean that your friend already applied, and if so, was it difficult getting a letter from the dean?

 

[DO/MBA]

No, a handful of schools accept both AOA approved and LCME approved schools. He did not need a letter from the Dean because the school stated to him that any faculty member will do(they considered the fact that not all administrations are keen on loosing 30k a year). He went for his interview last week, and they offered him a spot in the third year. This, of course, depends on him passing the USMLE. However, since he scored higher than the mean(215) on a shelf test at the end of his MS-I year that won't be a problem.

 

[Doctora Foxy]

Well in that case I think he should transfer if he'll be happier at the MD school. It will definitely open more doors for him in the future as well.

 

[Detroit Mick]

Do you mind supplying the two schools in question? Or at least the MD program as to which your friend is thinking about trnsfering to?

Thanks.

Michael

 

[andrea]

I think he would have "more doors open" to him if he stayed at the osteopathic school, since there he could choose from both osteopathic and allopathic residencies, which an MD cannot do.

 

[Peregrin]

Forgive me, but I've never heard of MD schools allowing transfers let alone DO to MD. I have a hard time believing that an MD school would accept DO credits (or MD or PA or Pod or Dent or any other for that matter).

Is this another MD/DO debate in disguise?

 

[ychromosome]

•••quote:••• Forgive me, but I've never heard of MD schools allowing transfers let alone DO to MD. I have a hard time believing that an MD school would accept DO credits (or MD or PA or Pod or Dent or any other for that matter).
••••Are you kidding me? Do DOs learn a different anatomy or physiology than MDs? Ummm, sorry, they dont. Actually, they learn more. Yes, you are right though, transfers in med schools are rare. However, it's not for some moral or philosophical reason as most people think, mostly for financial reasons as the school your leaving doesnt want you to vacate a seat that will not be subsequently filled, and paid for. DOs can academically transfer to MD school with the reward of a reduction in class load, but MD students cannot transfer to DO programs for their lack of OMM training.

 

[Wasabi]

Just curious, what was his reason for transferring to an MD school?

 

[DO/MBA]

It is family reasons. It comes down to rotations and his wife's education. The DO school is sending him to a small community hospital, and his wife (and 2 children ages 2.5 and 2 months)has put her life on hold and would like (demands?)to finish her degree. I'm not real sure of all the specifics. He has asked that I not reveal the school that he is at or that he is transferring to. However, if it is proof you want go to wright state university's web site under transfer students and it says in black and white LCME or AOA.

 

[Dr JPH]

ychromosome, I think Peregrin meant no ill-will towards the DO profession with his statement.

I think he was just stating that medical schools in general would probably not accept transfers because of the individual differences in curricula from school to school.

I don't think he meant to imply that an osteopathic education is inferior in any way to an allopathic education.

With that said, I think this person should switch to the MD school if they are truly unhappy where they are now. I don't buy the whole "more doors open" argument that has been ignorantly repeated by one poster.

I do, however, believe that people perform best when they are happy and confident in what they are doing. If this person feels that the MD school offers something to them that their current DO school does not, then by all means, transfer. If the MD school will better suit their needs, then transfer. Family should come first.

Peregrin, I agree with you. I think this is indeed another DO/MD "discussion" in disguise.

I'm pretty tired of it myself. If you don't want to be a DO, go to an MD school. If you don't want to be an MD, go to a DO school.

There are crappy MDs just as there are crappy DOs.

If you want to be a competent physician who cares about his/her patients, has strong people skills, works with other members of the health care team, is a leader in the care of a patient, and truly believes that the people are what matters in medicine then by all means, go to a school that will allow you to develop in that way...MD or DO.

The letters behind your name DON'T determine what kind of doctor you will be. Only YOU can determine what kind of doctor you will be.

I'm tired. Goodnight.

JPH
PCOM Class of 2006

 

[DO/MBA]

This is not a DO/MD debate. I also hope it does not turn into one. (PLEASE)He asked my opinion, and now I am asking you. It is a big deal for him. He is going through a very tough time. I understand it is a tough question. His stance is "What will the backlash be like?" Will he get the same treatment as other MD's even though year 1 & 2 at a DO school? These were a few questions he asked to me. I don't know any of this. I am hoping you guys could put some insight in it. Personally he doesn't care about DO or MD he picked his school because of location. However, I am going to stop talking about his life and get back to your opinions on the subject.

 

[jimjones]

If this is truly because of a request from his wife than what is there to talk about? I can't think of any backlash that would occur... if the offer is on the table and it is important to his wife to get her degree than I don't see how he could decide not to transfer.

 

[intraining]

Hey DO/MBA: Are you sure this is not you who we are talking? you seem to just know a bit too much about your friend's situation and, I have the gut feeling that it is you who is considering the transfer.

am I right here?

•••quote:•••Originally posted by DO/MBA:
•This is not a DO/MD debate. I also hope it does not turn into one. (PLEASE)He asked my opinion, and now I am asking you. It is a big deal for him. He is going through a very tough time. I understand it is a tough question. His stance is "What will the backlash be like?" Will he get the same treatment as other MD's even though year 1 & 2 at a DO school? These were a few questions he asked to me. I don't know any of this. I am hoping you guys could put some insight in it. Personally he doesn't care about DO or MD he picked his school because of location. However, I am going to stop talking about his life and get back to your opinions on the subject.•••••

 

[intraining]

I wonder why an MD would want to do an osteopathic residency? it's usually the other way around.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by andrea:
•I think he would have "more doors open" to him if he stayed at the osteopathic school, since there he could choose from both osteopathic and allopathic residencies, which an MD cannot do.•••••

 

[bobo]

MD's cannot do Do residencies.

 

[bobo]

I always find it funny that people post for a "friend". I guess most "friends" can't work a computer.

 

[ckent]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by DO/MBA:
•This is not a DO/MD debate. I also hope it does not turn into one. (PLEASE)He asked my opinion, and now I am asking you. It is a big deal for him. He is going through a very tough time. I understand it is a tough question. His stance is "What will the backlash be like?" Will he get the same treatment as other MD's even though year 1 & 2 at a DO school? These were a few questions he asked to me. I don't know any of this. I am hoping you guys could put some insight in it. Personally he doesn't care about DO or MD he picked his school because of location. However, I am going to stop talking about his life and get back to your opinions on the subject.•••••I'm having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what you are asking too. During rotations, attendings and residents don't go around asking med students where they did their first 2 years, they would just assume that he did his first 2 years with the rest of his classmates.

 

[DO/MBA]

We went to the same high school, undergrad, and fraternity. We are best friends. SDN is not the center of all medical students. He didn't even know what SDN was until I posted this and told him about it.
He is referring to backlash at residency interviews not rotations. The issue is 9 months of time. He will spend his 3rd year away from her and fourth with her if he stays. If he transfers he can spend both years with her. However, I told him that if it hurts his chances to get a residency I wouldn't do it. Fact is I don't know what it will do to his chances. Help or hurt, I am meeting with him over spring break and he will make a decision. Any insight (opinion or fact) that you can add, or any angle that I may have missed please point it out.

 

[Test Boy]

your friend must have been interested enough to go to the school if he applied for a transfer. i doubt it will hurt his chances for getting into a residency if that's the main issue here. just tell him to make sure he does well in his rotations and he should be alright.

 

[A little elf]

Transfer! Transferring will open up a lot of residency opportunities for your friend. I don't think that there'll be any problem as far as people looking down on your friend for doing his first two years as a D.O. I have nothing against D.O.s, some of the coolest, brightest people that I interviewed with were D.O.s, however, I still think that it's harder to match at an allopathic program as a D.O., no matter how good you are.

 

[Detroit Mick]

Any one know of a current resource documenting which allopathic schools accepted DO transfers?

Thanks.

 

[Voxel]

This will open up more residency opportunties. He will just have to do a little explaining if it comes up during interviews. He should be upfront and candid. If his USMLE score is smiliar to other allopathic candidates, I don't see what the problem is. Clinical training is really what is important. And for those residency program directors who have an aversion to DO applicants will be assured that the two letters on his id badge will be MD when future residency interviewees travel around the department. Also, outside of residency/fellowship interviews, no one will ever ask where he went for his 1st 2 years.

 

[UHS2002]

I know of two people who transfered from DO to MD schools. One transfered to KU, or so I heard, and had to repeat a year, the other transfered to one of the MD schools in Chicago (don't remember which) and transfered to the same year. Both transfered due to very serious family emergencies.

 

[Shark]

Regarding the MD/DO thing:
Most of you will understand when you actually go out into third and fourth year rotations and beyond that in most hospitals there are MD's and DO's that work together. It is mostly the uninformed, young applicant with no prior "world experience" that believes Do's are inferior. I can't tell you how many times I have been at a morning report where there is a classroom of 75% MD students getting lectured by an attending DO. There doesn't seem to be any lack of respect there. That being said, there are still some hospitals (MCP in Philly) that virtually hate DO's. This is mostly due to insecurity or just immaturity, (or in the case of MCP, fear of the hospital/school closing.) Think about it, do the initials behind your name really determine how good a doctor you'll be? After all, were all in this together aren't we?

 

[Osteo4sure]

Well said Shark,
I also plan on attending a DO school this fall. When researching the profession, I asked many MD's and DO's about their opinions on the whole issue. It was quite surprising to see how little it mattered to most whether one is a DO or MD. Unfortunately most pre-meds do not take the time to learn this for themselves. Ofcourse there are always those unprofessional individuals out there (MD and DO) who only know how to boost themselves up by kicking others down. In actuality, the type of doctor you are going to be depends on you, not neccesarily the letters which happen to follow your last name. In regards to the question, I think your "friend" should do whatever is best for himself and his family, if personal issues are what truly guide his decision. If he thinks that this shall "open more doors" as some have stated, I would have to disagree. Simply due to the fact that the AOA makes available residencies for DO's only, which range from Ortho. to Int. Med. I dont see how passing these up would be advantageous. Anyways, best of luck!

 

[migraineboy]

I think that it really depends on the quality of the programs involved. If your buddy is looking at a program that would provide him a better education and make life easier for he and his wife, then I say go. We have had a few individuals leave our school (a DO program) for MD programs, and we also have a person in our class who came to us from an MD program. While the MD/DO issue does make a little difference for residency consideration(some ACGME programs just are not crazy about DO's), I think that you friend's biggest problem would come if some programs director wanted to know why he left one program for another. Your friend's "level of commitment" might become an issue to some PD's. Just something to think about.

 

[grkbuckeye]

I have a family member who upon graduating from a DO school, went straight into MD school (At University of Chicago). He was accepted as a third year, but they made him take the USMLE step 1 before he could start (he had only taken the COMLEX before). Also, i should note that this was done around 1985. He did this because at the time he couldn't go into transplant surgery as a DO. All the surgical programs he applied to at the time were not accepting DO's. Much has changed since then. If it were today, he would not have had to do what he did. Also, his DO school was NOT pleased with him doing this. they wanted him to go straight into an Osteopathic residency when he graduated.

 

[Neurogirl]

Wow!!! That IS a drastic step! I agree that things have changed quite a bit since the mid 80's and seriously doubt that anyone would do something like that now. I personally know several people (5) who had MD acceptances but chose to go DO instead and none of them have regretted it. Some did it because of tuition prices, others because of location (proximity to family) and some because they just liked the DO school better. All (except one, who is still a student) have gotten the residency/job of their choice. Another thing I'd like to point out for all the insecure premeds out there is that while there will probably always be those who look down on DOs, their numbers are quickly decreasing. Also, although I've probably come into contact with at least a few of them, I couldn't tell you which ones they were. Even the most snobbish would NEVER be disrespectful to your face...it's just too unprofessional.

 

[DO/MBA]

He has decided to switch over to the MD school. We thank you for all your advise. It is good to know that we have such caring colleagues. It was really the family thing that made him switch. I hope that other D.O.'s (besides myself) understand.

 

[Thatsniceworkboys]

"MD's are a dime a dozen"

How many DO's do you know?