Should I apply OOS? Major tuition reduction for staying in-state.

[CutterSpindell]

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I am the child of a tenured faculty member at a research university. As a dependent under my parent I qualify for a tuition reduction at both medical schools within my state. This generous tuition reduction allows me to pay less than $8000 per year as opposed to $40,000+ per year at many OOS and private medical schools.

I am considering only applying to the two MD programs in my state, where I would qualify for the tuition reduction, for the 2015 cycle. I applied to one of these schools for the 2014 cycle, but did not receive an interview as my secondary was not submitted until December (serious mistake, I know).

I am committed to pursuing medicine as a career, but it is hard to pass up the opportunity of a medical education for less $40,000. I am concerned that if I apply to other schools outside of my state and am accepted to them and not my state schools I will have missed an incredible opportunity. If I willing to risk waiting another year to get into medical school do you think it is foolish to only apply to my two state schools? I appreciate all feedback!

Stats: 3.9 GPA, 31 MCAT, Above average ECs. The average matriculant GPA and MCAT for my state schools are close to 3.7 and 31.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

You should apply to many more than 2 medical schools. As a matter of fact, it should be closer to 20. Their average matriculating student statistics should range from slightly above to slightly below your own. Acceptance to medical school is difficult and unpredictable on an individual level, so you should give yourself as many chances as possible. If you get ACCEPTED to this low-tuition medical school, please go right ahead, but don't assume you'll get in.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I wouldn't put all my bets into two schools especially ones that already rejected you.

 

[SN12357]

Doesn't matter how good the instate deal is, two schools is too few. Apply to more and hope that the in state schools come through for you.

 

[CutterSpindell]

Doesn't matter how good the instate deal is, two schools is too few. Apply to more and hope that the in state schools come through for you.

I agreed two schools is normally far too few. However if I accept the consequence of potentially having to reapply are there any other negatives to only applying to these two schools?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Can your mom/dad throw some weight around and get you into the school they are faculty at? That deal just seems too awesome to not take advantage of.

 

[CutterSpindell]

My parent faculty member works for the associated research university and not within the medical college itself. I do not think their position would have any influence on the ADCOMs decisions.

I don't want my commitment to medicine to be called into question, but this deal really is too good to be true. If I only apply to my two state schools this year and am not accepted then I will reapply to the average number of schools in the 2016 cycle? Would there be any repercussions to this?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I agreed two schools is normally far too few. However if I accept the consequence of potentially having to reapply are there any other negatives to only applying to these two schools?

There is a certain stigma attached to being a reapplicant (and yes, schools will know you're a reapplicant even if you haven't applied to the program in the past. I believe you have to check a box on AMCAS that asks if you've ever applied previously). You could conceivably be damaging your application by applying to two schools and two schools only. There could be questions about what you have done since your previous application to bolster your chances, or why you didn't get in during a previous cycle.

Also, lets say you save 30k a year by going to the state school rather than private. That's 120 after 4 years, or 180ish with interest. While that is a prodigious amount of money, consider how much money you will be making in your gap year compared with the average physician's annual salary. That 180k extra is almost entirely accounted for by that extra year of working as a physician.

If you want to take a gap year, please take a gap year. I actually took three. But don't hedge your bets and apply to 2 schools with the chance that it could damage your chances in the future.

I would say the ONE caveat would be if your state school has an early admit program.

Hope this helps

 

[CutterSpindell]

There is a certain stigma attached to being a reapplicant (and yes, schools will know you're a reapplicant even if you haven't applied to the program in the past. I believe you have to check a box on AMCAS that asks if you've ever applied previously). You could conceivably be damaging your application by applying to two schools and two schools only. There could be questions about what you have done since your previous application to bolster your chances, or why you didn't get in during a previous cycle.

Also, lets say you save 30k a year by going to the state school rather than private. That's 120 after 4 years, or 180ish with interest. While that is a prodigious amount of money, consider how much money you will be making in your gap year compared with the average physician's annual salary. That 180k extra is almost entirely accounted for by that extra year of working as a physician.

If you want to take a gap year, please take a gap year. I actually took three. But don't hedge your bets and apply to 2 schools with the chance that it could damage your chances in the future.

I would say the ONE caveat would be if your state school has an early admit program.

Hope this helps

I appreciate your feedback. Regardless of what my starting salary as a physician would be paying off 180K is still a tremendous burden. If this is necessary for me to become a physician I am willing to accept this, but if I can avoid it I would certainly like to. As long as I remain occupied with medically relevant work and volunteer activities does being a re-applicant really hurt my chances of eventually being accepted that much? Thanks.

 

[supermintyfresh]

My parent faculty member works for the associated research university and not within the medical college itself. I do not think their position would have any influence on the ADCOMs decisions.

I don't want my commitment to medicine to be called into question, but this deal really is too good to be true. If I only apply to my two state schools this year and am not accepted then I will reapply to the average number of schools in the 2016 cycle? Would there be any repercussions to this?

I definitely think you should apply to 20+ schools, including the two state schools you mentioned. Why bother applying again if you don't get in? Just get it over with now. If you don't get in your state school this time around, it's unlikely that you would get in again after they rejected you twice...

Edit: Actually I can see your logic now. You really want the tuition reduction, and if you were to not get into your state schools this time around, but got in another private medical school, that effectively reduces any chance of you ever getting in your state school (as if you turned down an acceptance, many schools will view this negatively).

 

[CutterSpindell]

I definitely think you should apply to 20+ schools, including the two state schools you mentioned. Why bother applying again if you don't get in? Just get it over with now. If you don't get in your state school this time around, it's unlikely that you would get in again after they rejected you twice...

I would like to note that the first time I was rejected from my state school I submitted my secondary in December, only five days before the final deadline. Obviously this was a mistake and I was hasty.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I appreciate your feedback. Regardless of what my starting salary as a physician would be paying off 180K is still a tremendous burden. If this is necessary for me to become a physician I am willing to accept this, but if I can avoid it I would certainly like to. As long as I remain occupied with medically relevant work and volunteer activities does being a re-applicant really hurt my chances of eventually being accepted that much? Thanks.

My point was not that the loan is not a burden, but that the burden is likely entirely overcome with a year's salary as a physician. Essentially that year off (spent volunteering and working a ~25,000/yr job) while waiting to MAYBE go to the state school compared to that year down the line (spent making ~200k as a physician) show how the financials roughly even out. Don't waste a year just because you want to save money on tuition.
((Though, again, I will restate that if you want to take a year off to strengthen your application and pursue other interests and get to live as a free young person for a year, power to you!))

 

[CutterSpindell]

My point was not that the loan is not a burden, but that the burden is likely entirely overcome with a year's salary as a physician. Essentially that year off (spent volunteering and working a ~25,000/yr job) while waiting to MAYBE go to the state school compared to that year down the line (spent making ~200k as a physician) show how the financials roughly even out. Don't waste a year just because you want to save money on tuition.
((Though, again, I will restate that if you want to take a year off to strengthen your application and pursue other interests and get to live as a free young person for a year, power to you!))

I was under the impression that it takes multiple years for most physicians to pay off their medical school loans?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I was under the impression that it takes multiple years for most physicians to pay off their medical school loans?

That is because most physicians don't want to spend a year+ living in conditions similar to those of someone making only 25k

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I don't have the time to post a detailed response at the moment, but I'll just say that the argument of more debt being neutralized by a year of attending income is flawed.

 

[baconshrimps]

I was on the can when I saw this and forgot to finish writing my response.

I think you should apply to more than just two schools. Medical school admissions can be a crapshoot, even for applicants with stellar stats such as yours.
I understand that it would be tough to walk away from $8000/year tuition, but it is possible you might not get accepted to those schools anyway. Then what? You will have lost a year and you'll have to reapply, which paradoxically puts you at a disadvantage - while it should demonstrate commitment to the profession, it can sometimes be perceived as being 'damaged goods' - no other medical school was interested in you before, so why should be interested in you now? Damaged goods, you see. You cannot and should not count on an acceptance from a particular medical school, and it would be unwise to apply to only 2 schools. Apply to at least 20 medical schools. Good luck!

 

[CutterSpindell]

I was on the can when I saw this and forgot to finish writing my response.

I think you should apply to more than just two schools. Medical school admissions can be a crapshoot, even for applicants with stellar stats such as yours.
I understand that it would be tough to walk away from $8000/year tuition, but it is possible you might not get accepted to those schools anyway. Then what? You will have lost a year and you'll have to reapply, which paradoxically puts you at a disadvantage - while it should demonstrate commitment to the profession, it can sometimes be perceived as being 'damaged goods' - no other medical school was interested in you before, so why should be interested in you now? Damaged goods, you see. You cannot and should not count on an acceptance from a particular medical school, and it would be unwise to apply to only 2 schools. Apply to at least 20 medical schools. Good luck!

Thank you for all of your feedback! I am already technically a re-applicant. My AMCAS application won't differentiate between a second and third attempt though correct? I suppose if my primary and secondaries are completed as soon as they are available for my state schools and I still am not accepted, my chances for being accepted to these schools the next year are not great?

 

[sazerac]

Well, you applied to too few schools, and now you have one less year to be an attending. You are already $200,000 in the hole. How much money would you save by applying to too few schools again this year?

You really need to ask yourself: do you want to be a physician? Or are you just looking for a deal?

I interview med school candidates, and if I ever get a whiff that they don't want to be a physician, they aren't getting in to my school.

 

[mvenus929]

If you want to be a physician, apply to more than 2 schools. If you only want to be a physician if you can go to one of your two state schools, then you probably don't want to be a physician bad enough. If you get rejected from your two state schools, you'll basically be burning a bridge at one (the one you were initially rejected from, even though your reason for being rejected initially is a late application), and have to show vast improvement for the other if you apply again, plus you could have to explain to an adcom from a different school why you spent so much time not on a career track.

The med school application process is rough and long and expensive. Do it right the first (now second) time.

 

[Lucca]

Well, you applied to too few schools, and now you have one less year to be an attending. You are already $200,000 in the hole. How much money would you save by applying to too few schools again this year?

You really need to ask yourself: do you want to be a physician? Or are you just looking for a deal?

I interview med school candidates, and if I ever get a whiff that they don't want to be a physician, they aren't getting in to my school.

Just to be fair to people reading this board who might be considering a gap year for whatever reason (now and in the future) we should not equate the opportunity cost of 200,000/yr as an attending with owing a bank/the government 200,000 dollars. It's just not the same thing.

You trade the opportunity cost for something else that you value: Time, maturity, an experience, travel, other interests. Extra debt can be traded for other things, sure, like the city, clinical opportunities, curricula, etc. at a medical school but it's mostly a sunk cost since there is so much parity and subjectivity in that decision process.

 

[DokterMom]

You posted your numbers and say your ECs are above average -- So will your application be substantially better next year? If you've already put together what is essentially, your 'best package', shop it all around. Apply to virtually all the schools you'd be willing to attend, because yes, two schools is too few. Applying to just two schools sends the message that either :

1. You're arrogant and/or overconfident of your chances, or
2. You're only wanting to go to medical school if it's 'convenient'

If your application is already about as good as it's going to get, why wait an extra year to apply to those not-in-state schools? By that time, you will have already established that your two IS schools aren't going to show you love...

 

[mvenus929]

Thank you for posting this. I agree with this so much. Taking a gap year was by far the best thing for me and many other applicants. You grow so much personally, it's worth it over 1 year of physician salary.

The issue here isn't that the OP is taking a gap year... he (she?) will be taking one regardless of how many schools he applied to, because he's already missed out on one cycle. This isn't taking a gap year for the sake of taking a gap year, it's possibly taking a second gap year to have another chance at getting into schools he would have already been rejected from at least once.

Believe me, I'm all for gap years, intended or not. But that's not what this post is about.

 

[CutterSpindell]

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I understand the negative impression of only applying to my state schools. I am not willing risk to tarnishing my chances of being becoming a physician and will proceed to apply to the tradition number of schools (12-15).

I have two additional questions.

1) Since I was just rejected in Feb. for the 2014 cycle, which I believe was entirely due to submitting an extremely late secondary (December), is it advisable to reapply in May for 2015. I only applied to one school due to time constraints.

2) During my next application cycle are the ADCOMs from various schools able to see where I have applied and been accepted/rejected from? If so, how does this influence their decisions?

Again thank you everyone for your feedback.

 

[CutterSpindell]

Again thank you for all of the input! Any support on the question below?

"1) Since I was just rejected in Feb. for the 2014 cycle, which I believe was entirely due to submitting an extremely late secondary (December), is it advisable to reapply in May for 2015. I only applied to one school due to time constraints."

 

[wiloghby]

Here's the thing. You should apply to any school you would consider attending where you have a reasonably competitive MCAT/GPA. If you will only go to the schools where it costs you $8000/year, then only apply to 2 schools. If you are still interested in being a physician regardless, then apply to more schools. The worst that could happen is you don't get into the school that costs $8k/year and you pay what the average student has to pay.

If you only apply to 2 schools and don't get in, then you aren't going to be a doctor at all. If you apply and don't get in, and THEN decide to apply to a bunch of schools the next year, you are going to delay by 1 year what you could have done this cycle. You don't really gain anything by doing that... aside from potentially saving a couple thousand bucks in application fees. Is that worth a year of your life?

So apply to a bunch of schools. If you get into a school where you are offered a full scholarship or where you only have to pay $8k/year, go for it. If you don't, you should have some other acceptances lined up instead assuming you've applied to a ton of schools, given your MCAT/GPA.

 

[CutterSpindell]

Here's the thing. You should apply to any school you would consider attending where you have a reasonably competitive MCAT/GPA. If you will only go to the schools where it costs you $8000/year, then only apply to 2 schools. If you are still interested in being a physician regardless, then apply to more schools. The worst that could happen is you don't get into the school that costs $8k/year and you pay what the average student has to pay.

If you only apply to 2 schools and don't get in, then you aren't going to be a doctor at all. If you apply and don't get in, and THEN decide to apply to a bunch of schools the next year, you are going to delay by 1 year what you could have done this cycle. You don't really gain anything by doing that... aside from potentially saving a couple thousand bucks in application fees. Is that worth a year of your life?

So apply to a bunch of schools. If you get into a school where you are offered a full scholarship or where you only have to pay $8k/year, go for it. If you don't, you should have some other acceptances lined up instead assuming you've applied to a ton of schools, given your MCAT/GPA.

This is what I have decided to do. Thanks for the well explained response and not being critical. Congratulations on your acceptance!