MD Should I apply this cycle?

[ohhi]

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For MD/PhD.

A few things to note:
1. MCAT 38
2. research experience for 3 semesters so far (4 semesters by app time) at my university. should be a good recommendation, although I do not know the PI personally very well. I work mostly through a post-doc, who will surely give input, but I've given group meeting so the PI has seen me present and knows what I'm doing.
3. summer research program in the graduate division of a med school. Professor will write an outstanding rec, and I may get a publication (whether that is before or after the app cycle is impossible to tell, of course).
4. grades are the real question mark. I had a rough first semester, my freshman year GPA was ~3.4. Sophomore year was ~3.75. I've started to question my application though, because this semester, I will have ~3.4 - not for lack of working hard 🙁. I'm an honors chem major. So cumulative probably ~3.55 after this semester.
5. I go to a top 20 university.

will grades keep me out of competitive programs?

 

[SN12357]

Probably not. MD/PhD is much more about quality of research/LORs and you do have a superb MCAT. I know people who got into MD/PhD on the strength of their research and MCAT scores despite below average (for MD) grades.

So not impossible, but not ideal. One thing to consider is taking a gap year so you have your senior year to bring your gpa up more. And the gap year will also strengthen your ap if you are doing research for it. This is what I would do in your position.

 

[AkGrown84]

I'd say take a gap year this late in the cycle. I think your stats are fine (phenomenal, actually. The GPA isn't really "bad" it's just not above average like the rest of your stuff is). Still....it'd take a little bit to get your primary verified, then secondaries in, and by then, you're well into January/February. Save your money, apply first thing in June, and you'll be golden!

 

[ohhi]

SN12357: Yeah, this is the response that I feared. I do not really *want* to take a gap year - I feel so sure of my career goals - but I feel like another year of grades and another year of research will only strengthen my application. Although my research experience is good and my letters will be good, I don't know that they will be enough to make schools not care about my mediocre grades.

AkGrown84: Actually, I'm a junior right now. Whoops, when I said this cycle, I was referring to beginning in Summer 2014. Knowing that, what is your opinion?

 

[SN12357]

You want to be a researcher, so a gap year doing research isn't delaying anything. It's a natural and helpful bridge to becoming a physician scientist. I promise that if you do a year of full time research you will get to med school much more prepared in a way that will pay long term dividends.

I know it seems like a long time as a junior in college, but take it from a nontrad applying to med school several years after graduation: a year is just not a big deal.

I interviewed at a lot of top schools this year and taking at least one gap year is a huge and obvious trend. My bet is within the decade it will be practically mandatory for acceptance to top programs.

 

[TwinsFan]

You want to be a researcher, so a gap year doing research isn't delaying anything. It's a natural and helpful bridge to becoming a physician scientist. I promise that if you do a year of full time research you will get to med school much more prepared in a way that will pay long term dividends.

I know it seems like a long time as a junior in college, but take it from a nontrad applying to med school several years after graduation: a year is just not a big deal.

I interviewed at a lot of top schools this year and taking at least one gap year is a huge and obvious trend. My bet is within the decade it will be practically mandatory for acceptance to top programs.

+1
Take the year and get all As as well as keep doing great research and work on some pubs. If you can get these in order on your app MSTPs will be in reach. The will save 6 figures over an MD/Phd if you can land a spot.

 

[ohhi]

SN12357 and TwinsFan: Alright, I may reluctantly have to admit that I should take a gap year. I'm just so excited to start that it disappoints me a bit. But if I want to be in a top program and not just a mediocre one, I know that it can't hurt me.

If I may ask for your advice:
My parents are pretty anti-gap year. And I *know* that it's just because they don't understand the process. I've told them over and over again the merits, but what should I say to really make them understand? Any tips?

 

[Jennyfishy]

If I may ask for your advice:
My parents are pretty anti-gap year. And I *know* that it's just because they don't understand the process. I've told them over and over again the merits, but what should I say to really make them understand? Any tips?

I mean, if they're totally cool with you possibly throwing money straight into the trash given how late it is in the application process, then let them 😛. Just saying that if you apply next cycle, you have great stats (try to get that GPA as high as you can) and the possibility of making significant progress in your research or ECs to make you a shoe in for some fantastic programs that might not even look at your application right now.

 

[ohhi]

Jennyfishy: Yeah, to repeat what I mentioned before, I was being unclear - by this cycle, I mean Summer 2014. I am only a junior now, so the question is should I apply next summer, or take a gap year. So any advice given that?

 

[SN12357]

SN12357 and TwinsFan: Alright, I may reluctantly have to admit that I should take a gap year. I'm just so excited to start that it disappoints me a bit. But if I want to be in a top program and not just a mediocre one, I know that it can't hurt me.

If I may ask for your advice:
My parents are pretty anti-gap year. And I *know* that it's just because they don't understand the process. I've told them over and over again the merits, but what should I say to really make them understand? Any tips?

Show them the average age of matriculants at the Top 10 medical schools. It's 23-24 now, I think. Because of gap years. I think Michigan tweeted earlier this year that 50-60% of their last class took at least one gap year, and their average age was a bit more than 24 at matriculation.

Another bonus of doing a gap year is that it will either absolutely convince you MD/PhD is the right path, or show you you were about to make a horrible mistake. After all, if you do MD/PhD you'll spend at least three years doing straight research--if you find yourself dreading the idea of a gap year because you don't want to be doing the research, as opposed to just the delay, that tells you something really important.

 

[Jennyfishy]

Jennyfishy: Yeah, to repeat what I mentioned before, I was being unclear - by this cycle, I mean Summer 2014. I am only a junior now, so the question is should I apply next summer, or take a gap year. So any advice given that?

Oh, heh, my bad. I wrote the response when you first posted and didn't see your clarification. If you apply Summer 2014 you will already be taking a gap year, because you'd be accepted for the Fall 2015 cycle though?

When you apply next year (June 2014), you will be a senior that is graduating. If you were accepted, you would hear back any time from October 2014-April 2015 and start school July-August 2015. If you took a year off on top of graduating, then that'd technically be 2 gap years (1 full year out of school and 1 year off, but doing whatever + applying/completing secondaries)

Folks who want to start med school right after graduating apply in their third year. Please clarify a little more if I'm misreading what you said 😛

 

[ohhi]

SN12357: Alright, I'll give that a shot. It's like, I've been explaining to them how much it helps your application, and it's not seen as a "stigma" like they think it is - just having trouble getting them to listen :/.
Great point about the gap year, but I actually have no qualms about doing research for a year. In fact, if I take a gap year, that's 100% what I would want to do. It's just that I feel so sure about what I want to do that it's a shame that I have to delay it because my application is not strong enough.

Jennyfishy: Right so actually, I'm only in my third year right now. So I graduate in 2015, meaning if I apply in Summer 2014, I'll be matriculating in 2015, right after I graduate 🙂. No problem, I know I wasn't clear initially.

 

[SN12357]

SN12357: Alright, I'll give that a shot. It's like, I've been explaining to them how much it helps your application, and it's not seen as a "stigma" like they think it is - just having trouble getting them to listen :/.
Great point about the gap year, but I actually have no qualms about doing research for a year. In fact, if I take a gap year, that's 100% what I would want to do. It's just that I feel so sure about what I want to do that it's a shame that I have to delay it because my application is not strong enough.

Yeah, I don't really know the best way to convince them if they aren't familiar with the medical ecosystem, but it's very, very obvious at the top programs that gap years are favored. I've gone on 12 interviews so far, half top 20s, and I think 50% or more of my fellow interviewees had taken at least one gap year at every single interview. Sometimes it was as many as 75% of the interview group.

You are more likely to regret rushing than taking your time. I took my time readying my application (working full time and taking a post-bacc) and I could have done it faster if I'd pushed more classes at once and spent less time on my research job. But that time has more than paid off in how successful my cycle has been exactly because I took the time to put together as strong an application as possible. It was worth it, no doubt at all.

It's all about your goals. If you were saying you just want to go to med school, any med school, I'd tell you to apply. But if you want to be in a top research program, take your time.

 

[Jennyfishy]

SN12357: Alright, I'll give that a shot. It's like, I've been explaining to them how much it helps your application, and it's not seen as a "stigma" like they think it is - just having trouble getting them to listen :/.
Great point about the gap year, but I actually have no qualms about doing research for a year. In fact, if I take a gap year, that's 100% what I would want to do. It's just that I feel so sure about what I want to do that it's a shame that I have to delay it because my application is not strong enough.

Jennyfishy: Right so actually, I'm only in my third year right now. So I graduate in 2015, meaning if I apply in Summer 2014, I'll be matriculating in 2015, right after I graduate 🙂. No problem, I know I wasn't clear initially.

OK, GOTCHA. My sense of time is really off and bad right now, because of the transition in numbers between "fall 2014" and "spring 2015" being part of the same academic year

For me, I'm an advocate for a gap year, simply because of how emotionally and physically taxing a duel MD/PhD will be. When I was a third year, I was completely against the idea of taking a gap year because I was under the impression that only people who weren't competitive enough to begin with took one. However, I'm now in the middle of my gap year, and am enjoying my time doing the things I love doing, which is helping me mentally prepare and mature as an individual. I feel like there's really no reason to rush into "getting out there ASAP" if you don't ever really get to pursue your other interests and get it out your system before you buckle down and commit to the years of work and studying ahead. It's only 1 year; you'll be studying for the next 6+ years on top of doing residency and any associated fellowships. So even if you don't need the year to work hard and make yourself competitive, you should consider taking one just for yourself - it'll technically be your last summer and time off to yourself for a long time 🙂.

Ex: Some things that I never had time to do because of working 2 jobs + other ECs and school were studying abroad and participating in extended mentorship programs. I was also developing my research project for a while (before money became an issue, lol). This was all for funsies 😀

 

[ohhi]

SN12357: Well, you're making me feel more and more like on an intellectual level, there is no doubt against taking a gap year. I plan on discussing the matter with a professor who knows the process well, but based on my not-the-best grades this semester, I'm leaning towards it now.
You're right - my goal is to go a top research program. There's no reason to submit an application that isn't my absolute best.

Jennyfishy: Glad we cleared that up 🙂. Yeah, I definitely understand that taking a gap year will make me more competitive, even if I feel like I'm ready. Interesting to think about how a gap year might be a good way to also just take time for myself and really put my time into the actual applications. Thanks for the input! Any advice on what to say to my parents?

 

[Jennyfishy]

I don't know the dynamics of your relationship with your parents, so this might not work in your case. My parents were against me "applying late" because they thought that was my way of saying "I'm not smart enough to get in" or that "I was giving up on becoming a doctor."

In my case, I told them that if they wanted me to be happy, do well, and get into the best med school I can, then they should support what I felt like was the best for me. I know they were super excited and wanted to tell everyone as soon as possible once I started applying that I was going to "finally become a doctor," but since saving face is also important, I told them about the possibility of not getting in the first time around because I rushed into everything without "being completely ready." To them, telling everyone I was going to be a doctor, then having to come up with a lie to explain why I wasn't accepted was more embarrassing than letting me figure out everything and tell them when I was accepted on the first try 😛

I then explained the entire med school process, how long education, training, licensing, exams, etc. take, and that 1 year off for me to get "all my distractions out of my system" would make sure that I can focus 100% on my studies. Bonus: It's one more year I get to spend with them before I leave for out of state (where I might only be able to go home once a year) . I think the last part is what finally convinced them though.

You can try making fancy graphs and stuff too 😀?

 

[ohhi]

Jennyfishy: I really like your explanation. That is actually *exactly* what they think (my mom today was using the rhetoric "don't give up yet!"). Lol, my parents expect me to go to school within the region (I do want to), so that last part may not work so well, but I think the rest of your arguments will really work. Really appreciate the advice.
Are you applying to MD/PhD programs as well?

 

[Jennyfishy]

Jennyfishy: I really like your explanation. That is actually *exactly* what they think (my mom today was using the rhetoric "don't give up yet!"). Lol, my parents expect me to go to school within the region (I do want to), so that last part may not work so well, but I think the rest of your arguments will really work. Really appreciate the advice.
Are you applying to MD/PhD programs as well?

My parents were really gunning for me to get into our state school(s) too, especially UCD, since it's the closest one to home. But we all know how hard those schools are to get into if you're not an all-star, so they've learned to let go of that idea, especially since they've heard great things about the school I'll most likely be attending.

I'm a regular MD "to be" for now, hoping to be able to do the MD/MPH program though 😀. A couple of my friends are MSTP applicants, and I commend all of your devotion to academics

 

[ohhi]

Jennyfishy: Yeah, for sure. Congrats and I hope you love the school you're attending!

So it seems like the consensus is that I should take a gap year for my best shot. Does anyone know anything about the NIH PREP programs?

 

[ohhi]

For anyone who sees this, I'm also interested in knowing what schools you think will be in my range, whether I take or don't take a gap year. That'd be really helpful.

Anyone?

 

[ohhi]

Bump? WAMC for which schools?